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#542157 12/11/21 05:26 PM
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I've been in the shadows of this forum for a couple years now trying to gain knowledge and experience with what I have going on. I'm located in southeast Iowa and long story short, I am trying to accomplish/establish a yellow perch pond for strictly fun fishing. Yellow perch isn't a huge fish species for southern IA, although a few lakes do have them within an hour of home here, so I knew it was possible. I have read everything on here about yellow perch that I could find, and re read again. I have a pond that I know has never been stocked with anything/anyone. (Excited for NO LMB) Finally a chance at successfully raising perch perhaps? Built roughly 10 years ago. I have checked depth and fish specie. Green sunfish is the only fish present in the pond, and that usually happens naturally, I understand. The pond is just an acre or better. Depth gets to 16 feet at deeper spots. Typical Iowa farm pond elsewise. It's also exciting me that this pond doesn't have trees by it yet,(maybe some shade trees would be beneficial) and also the farming practice around the perimeter , since it was built, has been CRP. With all these seemingly positive things, I decided, its time to try my yellow perch project. I obtained roughly 300 probably 5-8 inch perch and successfully released them last winter, and then this spring I released 100, 3-5 inchers.(Those may not make it?) I did go back after ice out and was able to catch a handful of the yellow perch, the 5-8 inchers, which I was excited about. Any discussion or professional help from here on out would be appreciated. I did try and supplemental feed once the summer warming took place, the feed that's recommended on here, but the feeder didn't work correctly. Need to invest more on that deal. Next I will put twiggy trees in before possible spawn this spring. I am so excited to drill some holes if we get good enough ice(we did last winter) and see what I have going on. Any guesses. Hopefully I've given enough info to trigger someone on this. I am beyond obsessed with this pond perch project, so anything would be appreciated. I've heard without predators they repopulate like crazy/stunt. If this predator-less pond has that go on, should I be ok with that?... as I would love to trap as many little ones as I could to stock another pond or two perhaps. I can also add predators at anytime. Hybrid striped bass I can get my hands on.

Appreciate it,

Brett

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OOOOOO! Sounds neat.

Lots of info here to search out on YP. Anything you read from Bill Cody, take to the bank.

You may be able to use large YP as your chief predator - Bill has done that IIRC.

Last edited by Theo Gallus; 12/12/21 08:14 AM. Reason: Got my "A" key back

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Welcome to the forum!

I would rotenone the pond to completely eliminate the GSF prior to stocking the YP. You have no idea just how many YOY fish the GSF can eat. Get the minnow forage base started, then stock the YP. No sense feeding the GSF if you want YP.


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I have always had trouble growing good eating size and later good numbers of YP with GSF. GSF are very predatory of all types of natural foods including small minnows needed by YP. GSF also eat lots of YP fry up to 1.2" long. YOY GSF seem to be good at avoiding predation from YP. They do not really live in the same areas or niches so they do not interact much,,,, so as a result YP do not eat lots of little GSF. Way too many GSF are able to survive with just YP as predators. I think the GSF will out compete the YP for foods and current YP will remain skinny. It is my experience GSF manage to eat lots of tiny and small YP. Your pond might be big enough and spacious enough for YP to manage to get decent annual recruitment that results in enough YP fry surviving to create a decent YP panfish pond. However I doubt that will happen because the GSF had a very high density head start before you added YP breeders. Now a mostly unknown fact....... GSF have the same mouth size as a LMB until the GSF is around 6" long. After 6" the LMB mouth starts growing more than that of the GSF. I did a GSF mouth size measurement study about this for a Pond Boss conference presentation topic. This means larger GSF of 3"-6" are aggressive and when abundant will eat a huge amount of perch fry until YP are 1.5" to maybe 2" long. GSF at all their body sizes will eat lots of little YP. In my ponds Little GSF 1"-3" decimate perch fry as they hatch from the egg up through swim-up sizes to 3/8" long. Larger GSF eat lots of 1/2"-3/4" YP plus lots of other invertebrate foods needed by small 1"-3" YP. Do you see the problems of your plan? The more GSF there are the worse this problem becomes.

The big unknown that I have is how well will HSB eat GSF. I don't think HSB will eat small GSF very well because GSF live mainly close to shore among rocks and cover and HSB live a lot in open water and will IMO eat many more small 2"-5" YP compared to them eating small GSF. If you add LMB they will eat lots of GSF and YP. When and if the GSF numbers get minimized the LMB will focus on eating YP and eventually keep them from recruiting new YP. The amount of habitat and type of habitat might be a variable in your favor and your goal for producing some decent YP - but I doubt it. When your stocked YP die of old age in several years the YP population will be basically done / gone unless you keep stocking more adult YP. I hope you can prove me wrong. I consider those damn green sunfish pests.

Since you have already twice stocked YP into the pond, your next management objective I think should be to use fish traps, or seining or frequent small bait angling to try and determine if the 2"-4" YP are becoming a noticeable part of the fishery. If yes This means YP are able to recruit YP with the current population structure of GSF in the pond. Whatever happens going forward,, PLEASE return to this thread and tell us how your pond fishery is progressing. We all can learn from your results regardless of the results. We are all here to learn.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/11/21 09:56 PM.

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I really appreciate the responses and taking your time to post on this. I'll dive right into the topic again. Im glad retenone was brought up. I consider myself a conservationists. My father is a conservationists, and technically was soil conservationists for the NRCS for 40 years. I Grew up trapping, hunting, and of course fishing...but I still was hesitant to talk about the usage of chemical with dad as well as you guys, but I guess its not that bad of thing, it's just the thought of it I wasnt used to. Dealing with solely green sunfish I get it and I know you guys do but still. Ultimately, I did use chemical to kill as many green sunfish as possible. I was thinking once I saw gsf surfacing and dieing, the whole pond would be wiped clean of gsf as the entire perimeter was coated with chem and amount was factored in. It didnt completely wipenthem out, but I'd say it ridded of a lot. Hard to give a percentage of how many, but after a couple weeks you couldn't see any gsf in the shallows anymore like you could. So im saying at least half were knocked out which will hopefully help. I was worried about them, little aggresive, big mouthed predators they are. I was surfing the internet for the best fish trap today actually, its always a popular item in question as to what's the best to use, and if anyone has had experience with a successful perch trap I'd love to hear. Also, all my perch were added to the pond well after chemical and all that. I also added many pounds of fhm before perch were added. Kind of all of the place here, but trying to get this response out. I know the gsf are still present because out of about 15 of the perch caught on rod and reel when I went back in early spring I caught 4 gsf, none big, all small.

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Appreciate it, Bill Cody. Fish trapping and inventory check to the best of my ability is next move as winter is setting in of course. Im hoping I knocked out enough of the gsf to see some results, but also know if nothings done about them, they're going to thrive again with just YP in with them. I'll be checking back in with the happenings.

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Here's the reason why I said Rotenone. I know it's only one pond, but that is one pond that I don't want to have a repeat of.

A absentee landowner customer had a pond dug in a damp area of the woods. 1 ac, supposed to be 12' deep. Wanted a SMB/YP/RES pond. Didn't want to stock a lot of fish, so he only OK'd stocking 50% of what I recommended (FHM, Golden Shiners, Yellow Perch and Redear Sunfish) Fast forward 2 years when it was time to stock the SMB, he noticed fish chasing other fish in the shallows. I got called, went there and caught two 14" LMB. I KNOW I didn't stock any LMB, and we couldn't tell if any more were in there so he said kill it and we will start over.

I drained about 50% of the pond, then applied the rotenone. There were 1,000's of GSF, no fatheads, only adult Golden Shiners, only adult YP, only adult RES. There was absolutely no surviving reproduction in the pond at all except for GSF. I figure that there were GSF in the puddle in the woods that they turned into the pond because the woods floods and the ditch nearby has GSF in it.

No other LMB were in the pond, and this state has a 14" minimum size for keeping LMB from public waters. I figure some were caught from a local lake and bucket stocked in there because there was no sign of ANY fish chasing forage fish in shallow water before.

When the pond was dug, the spoils were distributed around the pond so no surface water could run into the pond - it is a groundwater pond.

That's why I say kill all the GSF and then stock.


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Esshup, thank you for this. Retenone is what was used in attempts to kill this pond of gsf in my case here.
Your example shows just how easily gsf can come about. As for the LMB, it seems like the bucket stock bass is what went on perhaps. Kind of interesting to take this case and think about it like this too....say I had a 100 percent wipeout of the GSF, and you guys did too in the timber pond. What's to say, especially in my case with just YP in pond along with minnows and no other competition towards the GSF, that the GSF wouldnt just naturally come back. Afterall, they naturally got into the pond in the first place no matter how they were able to achieve it. I guess eliminate GSF at all costs for YP to be successful and regenerate is the bottom line.

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Perch Pond, it all depends on how many YP are in the pond, and what size they are. In my case I don't think the GSF would have been a problem if SMB would have been stocked after year 1. If there are predators in the pond that are able to eat the GSF, then no worries.

It also depends on how the pond was constructed. In my case, there was no water that could flow over the ground to bring GSF into the pond, so that hasn't been an issue since I killed it.

In your case, if water can flow into the pond that may be contaminated with GSF, then they could be reintroduced to the pond.


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PerchPond said
Quote
Im glad retenone was brought up. I consider myself a conservationists. My father is a conservationists, and technically was soil conservationists for the NRCS for 40 years. I Grew up trapping, hunting, and of course fishing...but I still was hesitant to talk about the usage of chemical with dad as well as you guys, but I guess its not that bad of thing, it's just the thought of it I wasnt used to. Dealing with solely green sunfish I get it and I know you guys do but still. Ultimately, I did use chemical to kill as many green sunfish as possible. I was thinking once I saw gsf surfacing and dieing, the whole pond would be wiped clean of gsf as the entire perimeter was coated with chem and amount was factored in. It didn't completely wipe them out,

Firstly - IMO rotenone is a tool just as doctors use antibiotic as a tool, both are specialized tools to eliminate specific life forms. IMO GSF are not much more important than bacteria that can be controlled with antibiotics.
Second - " It didnt completely wipe them out"
Perch Pond you are LEARNING. Learning can be expensive in one way or another. GSF are tuffies and hard to kill which is one big reason they tend to be problematic.
Things I've learned with GSF. Whenever I use rotenone to kill GSF you have to use a high dosage of the chemical at least 3ppm to get good, reliable results. One ppm rotenone in good conditions will kill BG-LMB but not GSF. Under CERTAIN conditions and resistant species 3-5ppm is needed for some species such as greenies. Knowing the certain conditions and certain species is a big part of ones education. ALSO it is always best to drain down the pond to low or lower pool and force greenies out of protective cover situations and habitat if you want guaranteed results. Lower water level also allows the need for less chemical. Rotenone is expensive at least IMO, especially if it has to be done twice due to 1st time failure. When not getting it done correctly the first time wastes lots of time and money if fish are restocked into the unsuccessfully renovated pond. Time, as in several years to determine success, is often valuable when trying to achieve ones goals. I learned both of them the hard way.

Thirdly - Since you partially renovated the pond with subsequent YP stockings, you MIGHT achieve some form of success of getting YP to populate to long term recruitment toward harvestable perch. I assume your goal is harvestable perch.

At this point this is my suggestion. Stock an appropriate predator to greenies. I would use LMB or maybe SMB. NOTE SMB are not proven yet to target GSF as a commonly eaten food. I am working on that topic in 2022 and beyond. For your case I would use LMB to eat and crop the GSF. LMB are known to be efficient predators of GSF however LM bass also love, love to eat perch. You will have to live with and manage around or with this fact.
Try this: add as many LMB as you can afford toward the 100/ac or even higher density. This will not be cheap; neither was the rotenone. That is the problem with a larger pond - EVERYTHING COSTS MORE. IMPORTANT NOTE you should not use fingerling LMB because the existing populations of GSF and YP have significantly eaten all the foods needed by fingerling LMB to survive and grow. Been there done that in my learning curve.

My experience strongly shows you should use the size of LMB that can quickly and readily eat the most abundant size of GSF in the pond. 2"-3" greenies are easily eaten by 5"-7" bass. Before and After adding the LMB remove as many as possible GSF by whatever means possible to you. As a reference I have GSF in a pond with adult perch for a pellet feeding trial. YP have proven to me to not eat very many gsf if minnows are present. In my 0.18ac pond last year I trap removed 4,678 greenies and in 2021 I removed 3,103 greenies. Damn things are prolific. If you extrapolate my numbers by your 1 acre size pond expect the need to remove 15,500 to 23,000 greenies per year. See my concern with having greenies??
After a couple years post bass and once you see noticeably fewer GSF,,,,,, then start removing largest LMB so their density is fewer and exert less predation on the small YP to allow some YP to recruit and be guests to your dinner table. I would gradually remove LMB,,,, IMO especially the larger bass until you start seeing acceptable recruitment of YP toward your goals. These larger LMB 12"-13"+ will be eating or often targeting the larger (4"-6") YP. Whereas the smaller year classes of 6"-10" LMB should eat significant numbers of small GSF plus we assume LMB are removing some annual numbers of small YP. All this will take several years time,,,,,, and to some - time is money. See the required time delay of not killing all the greenies in the first attempt?

Worst case condition the YP do not recruit very well and and not enough for you to get an acceptable crop of harvestable YP, then you will need to periodically supplement stock larger YP of 6"-8" so some avoid predation of 12"-13" bass and you get some YP spawns. I think you will need to learn how to specifically fish and remove the largest bass in the pond for best success of your stated goals. Using bigger baits such as 3"-5" live GSF should work good for catching larger bass. Good luck and please keep us advised of your pond's progress. We can all learn from your adventure with growing YP in the presence of green sunfish. I know I will look forward to your results.

Post script. It is very easy to grow numerous 10" to 14" YP in SE Iowa, IF and I emphasize IF it is done correctly. Very first rule - do not start with the pond having green sunfish! My methods can reliably get yellow perch to the size of 8" to 10" in one summer.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/12/21 04:26 PM.

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Very fortunate to have Pond Boss and these types of conversations, I by all means am so appreciative!

Great way to look at retenone. I personally am more ok with using the chemical than I led on through my earlier text, but it's also great for everyone else who is going to read this to see this. It is plant based chemical afterall! Fish are a natural resource.

I had a seemingly fresh pond, with no LMB and time went on and it was assumed the greenies were dead and gone. I will now know if I get another chance with another body of water, that LMB arent always the main culprit of a self sustaining YP pond, but indeed GSF play a huge factor as well. I do have another pond , which was built the same way in same area with similiar depths that I've stocked YP. This pond had existing populations of the default farm pond species that the Iowa Dnr recommends to only stock...BG, LMB, Crappie, channel cat. I have caught my stocker perch after placing them in the pond, but knew it wouldnt be self sustaining if you will.

The lengths I've gone thus far, I'm not about anything but to keep trying. I'm with you Bill Cody, LmB seem to be kind of the only option to rid and knock down the greenies at this point, because what other species is going to take care of them like they do? I cant think of any from experience anyway. SMB would cost me to purchase for stocking even if we were confident it was a pertinent player in what were trying to achieve. LMB, I can get free, any size, depends on amount a little bit however. I do not like the idea of putting LMB in at this point, but fully understand it is needed.

I also might try to heavily trap and see just how many are left in there(approx). Also, see where the YP population is at, then add some predators to hunt down the remaining, or help keep the greenies knocked down enough for some recruitment. I do worry that I wouldnt be able to fully clean out the pond of LMB if I put even a handful in. They seem do so well with recruitment.

Ultimate goal is a good perch fishery. The YP havent had a full year in the pond yet. If SMB was a go, theyd be swimming in there asap!

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All a pond needs without bass is one pair of GSF. After two spawns and no bass the Greenies capable of being a big threat of over abundant pests. I have pictures of GSF filled with eggs at 2.5" long! If posting pics were easier I would include the pic. Best of all luck trying to remove GSF with trapping or seining. GSF will eadily enter baited fish traps with some bread or pet food as bait inside. In the right conditions members here in the past have grown GSF to 10" long and as desired guests to dinner. Plan on each 10"-12" LMB eating 300 to 350 greenies per year. Greenies are not as wide body as BG so swallowing them for a bass is easy stuff.

As I recall no one here has posted about the success of using SMB as good predators of GSF. Smallies search the structure for foods especially crayfish/ So both GSF & SMB will live close to near shore habitat so they should frequently encounter each other. However in a side by side test I tend to doubt SMB would equal or exceed the consumption of GSF compared to LMB. In 2006 I did a study of LMB added to a small pond to control a dominant population of GSF. I should go back to that pond in 2022 and check how well the LMB have performed during the past 15 years. That same type of study should be done using SMB instead of LMB.

By all means keep us appraised about the progress of your YP fishery.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/12/21 07:45 PM.

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Bill:

If LMB are added to the pond to control the GSF, could they be managed via slot culling like is done in ponds that are managed for large BG? Remove LMB that are over 14" long and you shouldn't have them eating the larger YP.

Just because I don't have a history with the ponds that I am asked to Rotenone, I always figure on using the .6 ac/ft per gallon dosage for an application rate. That will kill bullheads and common carp in an organic rich pond.

I too have seen GSF as small as 2.5" full of eggs.


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Originally Posted by Bill Cody
As I recall no one here has posted about the success of using SMB as good predators of GSF.
IME SMB are much better at eating small YP than they are at controlling my BGxRES (closest thing to SMB on GSF action I can relate to).

Cody Note - Yes I agree. GSF reduction via SMB could be somewhat successful due to the measurable more slender body shape of the GSF compared to HBG or BG. However I have no data to verify this. I think it will take some practical experience to enlighten us about this SMB eating GSF. . I will be working on this but it will take a couple years. Definitely the SMB will eat more YP compared to sunfish when those two prey items are equal density. YP might be more frequently consumed by SMB because small GSF are more structure affiliated compared to YP. Frequency of Encounters and definitely amount of cover or habitat I think have a lot to do with predation.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/13/21 05:12 PM. Reason: spell correct the to they and added postscript

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Update on the coveted perch pond. Fished the pond a quite a few times in the springtime. For a southeast IA pond I was surprised at the results I found. Along with some YP, I had stocked at the most, a handful of pumpkinseed sunfish as well. The growth of the pumpkinseeds was astonishing, but even more so, the growth they had achieved in such a small amount of time. Sure seems like I caught a lot more than I stocked, and they were mostly full grown seeming, which caught me off guard. Big hand sizers. We don't have them very regularly here in Southern IA in the lakes. Further north lakes, yes they're there. They were a blast plucking them out in the shallow moss and growth. As summer rolled in, their bite slowed. Onward with the green sunfish project. Trapped numerous out and caught a bunch as well. Took out a couple hundred easily. Was able to use a lot of them as flathead bait on the river nearby a few evenings. I did catch about a dozen YP. All were about 7 inches or so. I did select fish for male, arge mouth bass nearby, tried my best at picking out males only. I stocked 9 LMb with the sizes according to what I was told to stock above. Probably not near enough for the GSF population to get decimated by any means, but we will see. I will get on the ice there this winter to do some analyzing of what I have going on. A couple YP through the hole would have me smiling. I know they're in there still after my spring/summer analysis. I will build a pond one day, and YP will be the main theme!

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Thanks for taking time for returning with a pond update.

Are you able to post a nice close side picture of your pumpkinseed sunfish? Put the picture on a server and then just add the link to it here on a post.

Keep trapping the GSF on a weekly basis. They will readily enter wire mesh traps placed near shore with no bait. I like Gee Minnow traps best. I removed about 3000 small GSF in a small pond this open water season using 3 - 4 minnow traps with no bait. Trap openings can be enlarged for catching slightly larger GSF.

The 9 LMB will eat a lot of fish and a big percent of them will be GSF because the two species have similar niches. Your 9 LMB should be able to eat around 2500-3000 small fish per year. Hopefully most of them will be GSF.
To maintain decent numbers of YP with those bass you will have to regularly add some 7" long YP each year. The LMB will likely eat most all the yearling YP that are produced each year. The more 7" YP you can add the better the fishing for YP will be.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 11/30/22 09:28 PM.

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Ditto what Bill said about the update. Here's praying that you were successful in only stocking Male LMB. The only way I know to reliably figure out the sex of LMB is to use a catheter prior to them spawning.


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+1 on the sexing via the catheter tube. any other method is a 50/50 shot

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Thank you, Bill Cody, esshup, and Snipe.
I will try and get a photo or two up of the pumpkinseeds. I did purchase a fish trap that's quite large, and that was pretty successful in trapping all sizes of the GSF. I also used some of the budget friendly fish traps that

worked ok at catching them as well. Was able to catch 15+ at a time in the cheaper traps, and 30+ in the large trap. That's good information on about how much the 9 bass that were stocked will be able to eat in a years'

time. I do plan to do some more stocking of yellow perch and hoping I can get my hands on numerous 7+ inch YP in doing so. We will have to see what happens with the LMB introduction as far as sex. I knew it was a

50/50 chance. Bottom line, the pond needed LMB added, as they're the proven technique to get rid of GSF. Having the capability to accurately sex the LMB would've been very beneficial. I do plan to check ratio's and if I

can ever get those in check with YP as the end goal, I will then start trying to cull the bass if it makes sense to at that point, which I could foresee being the biggest challenge yet. I am aware of what the presence of LMB

does to a pond with YP in it, so the sooner I can limit the bass population, the better off I will be. I am understanding I am on a road, and a long one at that, most likely, in trying to turn this pond around for a trophy YP pond.

I still have hope and will keep monitoring and trying. I'd be curious to hear about a fresh pond, fresh start, on a mostly successful YP pond, and what problems occurred that needed fixing within the fishery as time went on.

Someday I will start from scratch, with a fresh body of pond water!

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Great update, I'm still working on getting YP established in my pond. I believe this is year 3 since my first fall stocking. My pond is close to 3 acres. It has bluegill, LMB,BCP, and CC. I stocked 300 7-9 inch YP.The first spring I saw eggs everywhere. That summer I caught a few YP while crappie fishing. last year was a tough year so I didn't do much fishing in the pond and I never caught any. I also didn't notice any eggs this Spring. I stocked 300 more 7-9 inchers in October of this year. Over that time we have removed every bass caught over 7 inches and IM still working on removing all CC as I believe they are my main YP predators. I too am seeking a successful YP pond.


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Growing yellow perch in a pond with largemouth bass is a BIG CHALLENGE. With also channel catfish makes it an even bigger challenge.

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It is, a challenge, a big one. I do have experience with trying to establish a perch pond with LMB and CC within the depths. That pond is about an acre in size. I did have some luck catching some yp ice fishing, but soon after I couldn't catch even one. I did find some strands of eggs after initial extensive stocking the following spring, but nothing to show for it as far as yp. Just too successful predation of the yp from the LMB and CC I assume. Thanks for weighing in here John and I hope you can turn things around to your favor! 3 acres of water sounds fun to be working with, but also challenging. I want to add, that in the same pond, I also had crappie in it as well. They could account for some of your loss of yp in my opinion. At this point, thats why I moved my focus to another 1 acre pond that was a fresh start, so I thought, but nope, green sunfish had naturally overtaken the pond. I wish there were a solution like barriers or grow out cages, or some alternative, believe me.

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I am confident if I try hard enough I can remove 99% of the CC. The LMB are another issue, but I’ve had this pond 15 years plus and I’ve seen what can be done by culling properly. When I first bought the place I could catch 100 in 30 minutes to an hour 12-14 inches. You could pretty much do that all day in the summer. After culling umpteen thousands I started noticing the size classes were much broader and as the years went by I started getting all size classes of bluegill and less lmb catches. However, some of the biggest lmb were caught during the years after that and one female that hit just over 10lbs. Lots of 3-4 pounders as well. A few years ago my interest and direction for the pond changed after YP fishing up in SD. Those were the best tasting fish I’ve ever had a notch above walleye in my opinion. Since YP can survive and thrive here in NE Kansas I figured why not?I may end up finding I need to restart the pond, but for now being early in the game I’m gonna keep trying it this way. I’m also hoping to build a smaller pond in an uphill area I can drain into the bigger pond when I want. I’d like to grow forage in it and possibly just fatten up some YP than can get away from predators in my pond.


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We have the same want it sounds like John, driven by the same force. I too, fish near Webster, SD as well as anywhere local I can catch YP. Last winter I traveled to Lacrosse, WI for giant perch on the Mississippi River. That was unreal. Those are the best looking YP in the country in my opinion, except maybe Cascade in Idaho! Keep striving for your goal. I do think there could be something to a fresh start, hard to justify that considering all things, I understand. Good luck.

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John,

That sounds like you had an awesome LMB pond by Kansas standards once you started managing your bass population.

However, I suspect it would be extremely difficult for YP that hatched in your pond to make it past the crappie and BG predation, and then to grow to any significant size through the LMB and CC predation.

Is there any place on your property that you could build a small grow-out pond?

If you had such a pond, you could put in YP forage and then add YP that you pellet feed. When they are large enough, drain and seine the pond and transfer your YP to the main pond. Hold back a few breeding pairs of YP, and let them fill your grow-out pond again for the next cycle.

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Perch Pond,

How is the fishing for YP when you fish in some of the most popular public waters?

Is it great fishing only at certain times of the year?

Is it good fishing for the good YP anglers and tough for the general public?

(Thanks. We are planning some possible family RV trips since flying is so expensive.)

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Fishinrod, I do have several acres above the pond. One of my goals is to build a small pond above I can raise forage and YP in to larger sizes and flush them into the big pond. It only takes money right?🤣 I’m hoping in the next two years I can get one built, but might have to wait until inflation is back under control. I know after 15 years or so with this pond how well I can effect fish populations by proper culling and feeding. You just have to keep after it or you’ll start to go backwards.


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John, I hope your plan comes to fruition.

If you design the upper pond such that it also serves to trap sediments, you should extend the life of your main pond.

That way, you would actually be SAVING money in the long run. (Think your wife will believe that one?)

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The Mississippi River pools between lock and dam 7 and dam 8 is the stretch I fished on and mainly referring to in having the trophy YP fishery. Whatever has happened with managing that fishery and the river itself, it

worked tremendously well. Some true giants in there and love the coloration on those healthy-looking fish. Makes you dream pretty big of creating your own mini opportunity at fish like that, at least it did me! I kind of

freelanced by myself for a few days and caught a few fish on the ice, then the last day I had an opportunity at an airboat ride out where the general public cannot reach on the river. That was a day I'll never forget perch

fishing. The morning at sunup was hottest bite, then slowly tapered off during day, but managed to pick them here and there and that is usually the common consensus on most public water perch fishing. There are a few

lakes in Iowa that have YP, but not much to show for actual trophy size YP however, at least on a semi consistent basis. Ice fishing Dec 15th- ice out would be a great time to target YP in public waters, because they're

more grouped together and more easily targeted I suppose. Don't have to be an expert fisherman by any means, just have to know where the perch are, and in unknown territories sometimes it pays to ask or even pay a

guide or someone that knows something, no shame in learning and spending a little bit in something I'm passionate about is how I justified anything when it came to finding the perch. Northeast Iowa, Decorah, Waukon,

and then just north of them into and near Lacrosse, Wisconsin and Minnesota is right there too! Beautiful bluff country and the streams are full of trout too near Decorah, IA! Hope this helps answer.

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https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showgallery&Number=554196

Here's some of the pumpkinseed sunfish I caught in the perch pond.

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To my eye they look like pumpkinseed hybrids. At least the last picture has more darker banding and is hybrid with something else. What else in the pond or from the stocking source could have hybridized? GSF maybe?

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GSF are in the pond, yes. I wonder how big they can get if they're hybridized.

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Forage availability will dictate most of that growth, with length of growing season also a factor.
Forage in ample amounts at the right sizes means best growth will occur with less competition.
WR of fish caught is a snapshot in time, but if you do it throughout the season, you will see a pattern emerge.
Fast growing Sunfish are commonly 140%-up WR (weight ratio), others here refer to RW-Relative weight-same alpha and beta are used in the equations. If you are interested in this, I can look up the charts, They are in the archives here. I also have the values to plug in to spread sheet for grams and mm, which-to me-is more accurate than ounces and inches.

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Perch Pond, I really hope you are successful in getting good numbers of nice sized YP in your pond. My pond is just south of you in NE Missouri. If I had to do it all over again, I’d just have YP, and not much else. We love to catch and eat them. I just can’t keep them going. Every year I have fewer and fewer egg ribbons. And fewer and fewer edible sized YP. Years ago I foolishly thought I was going to have a great YP pond. I kept and ate many. (Probably a few too many females were consumed.)
We don’t catch very many any more, and the ones we catch are pretty small.
I stocked a few HBG, they and my RES have really multiplied. I’m guessing they hurt the YP fry. I’ve got American Pond Weed coming on in the last few years. Maybe that’ll help my YP. I stocked more YP a few years ago. Still trying.


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
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Jeff, make sure you have YP spawning habitat in the pond. Their egg skeins don't do so well if they are laying on the bottom. They need to be up off the bottom so water can circulate all around them. Then once the eggs hatch, the fry and fingerlings need dense cover to hide in to avoid predation.

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Update on the perch pond. I was able to get on the ice for an evaluation. First fish was probably an 8-inch perch or so. Ended up catching 15-20 perch in all. I also caught a handful of little sized YP. This had me most excited. I think I have achieved some repopulation/recruitment. Seemed if I fished in the shallower water, I could get away from the GSF pretty well! I'm thinking that I have recruitment for sure, by the size of the little YP caught. Probably 3 or 4 inches. Haven't put any in that size on initial stocking two and 3 years ago. Let me know if the photos I have attached are available to preview.

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Beautifully colored fish! Congrats on the reproduction.


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Originally Posted by esshup
Beautifully colored fish!
B & W too.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Originally Posted by esshup
Jeff, make sure you have YP spawning habitat in the pond. Their egg skeins don't do so well if they are laying on the bottom. They need to be up off the bottom so water can circulate all around them. Then once the eggs hatch, the fry and fingerlings need dense cover to hide in to avoid predation.

Lots of branches and American Pond Weed around the edges. We just see fewer and fewer ribbons every year. I restocked some small YP a few years ago, we are catching a few of them. Not keeping any.


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
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Originally Posted by SetterGuy
Originally Posted by esshup
Jeff, make sure you have YP spawning habitat in the pond. Their egg skeins don't do so well if they are laying on the bottom. They need to be up off the bottom so water can circulate all around them. Then once the eggs hatch, the fry and fingerlings need dense cover to hide in to avoid predation.

Lots of branches and American Pond Weed around the edges. We just see fewer and fewer ribbons every year. I restocked some small YP a few years ago, we are catching a few of them. Not keeping any.


Toss a bunch of Christmas trees in there so the tops of them (when they are laying over) are in 2'-5' of water. The American Pond Weed and regular tree branches won't do much for their success in spawning, they need denser material so the skein isn't all clumped up gets water movement around it.


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I think I will try this too. Thank you esshup.

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I was curious to after viewing the size of the YP in my above photos, what can I expect in size without supplemental

feeding for those females to get? Very open question I understand, but anyone with experience of YP growth rate in

their pond, I would be happy to hear what they found for growth and what I could possibly expect in the future. I would

love to supplemental feed, but it would be nonsense to do with the GSF still very present in the pond. Also, with the

size of the juvenile YP shown in above photos, would any of you be confident to say that is indeed recruited fish? The

smallest perch I stocked 2 years ago were 4-6 inch fish, so my thinking is these are proof of reproduction has taken

place. I'm surprised as I would think the GSF would've eaten any kind of perch fry. Can anyone enlighten me on what

Their thoughts are on this?

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"...smallest perch I stocked 2 years ago were 4-6 inch fish, so my thinking is these are proof of reproduction has taken

place."

The YP in your pictures that are in your hand seem to be 4-5" max if my hand is similar in size, so I would guess you've pulled off a YP spawn with some recruitment.

Regarding the GSF potentially eating all the YP fry, I think you'd have to be way overpopulated with GSF to get no recruitment from other fish species. The better cover you have for YOY, the better recruitment you'll get.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Sunil, I have done some pretty intensive work in eliminating as many GSF as I can within my means. I just think there probably is an abundance in the pond still, and probably an over-population of them. Which is mostly how I am so surprised at the recruitment of YP present upon last fishing session. Potentially I eliminated enough to make just enough of a difference in last years YP spawn in there.

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If we can agree that you're getting YP recruitment, then I'd keep doing what you're doing and try to intensify any aspects that you can. Maybe get more structure for YOY YP to hide in, increase GSF culling efforts, etc.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Larger YP in the pictures will be your original stockers and they are plump females carrying eggs. Smaller YP in pics are probably this year's crop or maybe males from 2021 hatch. Keep trapping the GSF especially prior to their onset of spawning of 59F. The more GSF females you can remove prior to spawning the better your chances of having better YP survival in 2023 and beyond.

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Thanks guys. I will continue to remove GSF. I just got back from the "perch pond". I cut 4 good sized Eastern Red Cedars and placed them on the ice, ready to deploy and sink in around 2-5ft. Also, had a goofy looking tree that I think will be a great addition to the YP spawn habitat with my bundled and weighted cedars. It's approximately 5ft in diameter with twigs shooting up and sideways unlike you see most trees do. I do have photos of it. I will try and drop those in the photo gallery section as I'm not having luck doing here via cell phone. The brush is sitting ready for deployment as the ice melts later on and placed in the southeast corner of the pond as I've read on another thread others have had luck on this end of their water. Fun stuff. I also am going down the rabbit hole of tanking some YP egg ribbons, or at least reading up on old threads from some of you on here and thinking more seriously of the idea of trying.

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"I also am going down the rabbit hole of tanking some YP egg ribbons..."

Nothing ventured, nothing gained!!


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Originally Posted by esshup
Toss a bunch of Christmas trees in there so the tops of them (when they are laying over) are in 2'-5' of water. The American Pond Weed and regular tree branches won't do much for their success in spawning, they need denser material so the skein isn't all clumped up gets water movement around it.

I can get my hands on a bunch of cedar trees before the end of March. Those should be ok, correct? Or, is cedar too dense? I’ve just thrown in oak and hickory branches in the past. Most ribbons are still being laid in the leaves and FA.


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
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never hurts to try. My YP also prefer the layer of oak leaves in SUPER shallow water (8-10") perhaps due to it warming up the quickest there? The first strands are always on the leaf covered areas and in the shallow/warm corner. I then usually see them show up next around little snags sticking up, like stiff reeds or sedges, or will even find crannies or pockets in artificial structure that is left in the pond. IT seems they prefer to lay eggs in all these other places and conditions rather than drape them over the branches that I leave out. Some branches certainly attract egg strands. Maybe I need DENSE branches like Christmas trees?

For fun, maybe take 2 or 3 old 5 gallon buckets and bore various size holes (or square openings) in the sides (maybe a 3" 5" and then 8-10" hole) FWhen planning holes, figure on laying the buckets on their side so plan holes on opposite long sides at different heights in the water column. Throw a rock in there to hold the bucket in place, put them in different spots and depths and see how many of the openings end up with egg strand draped through it.

You could use a 'Christmas Tree Bit' to woller out the holes or use a battery powered angle grinder to make square or triangle shaped holes. For fun leave some saw tooth shapes on the bottom edge of the opening to see if having something for the YP to hook the egg strand on to help pull it out is really what draw them. See if the eggs are on the holes with the sawtooth edges vs the smooth edges.

My theory is that the brush helps them get some traction on the strand and get it elongated and draped out. It seems having a pivot or tether point on the egg strand is what I see as a common theme in my pond. I'm probably all wet, but it just an observation.

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Hardwood branches aren't dense enough.


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Here are some photos of what I laid on top of the ice for YP spawn structure, they have now fell through and sank into the shallows for the YP to spawn in and around. I was happy to have had easy access to the stick tree you see in a photo as well as the cedar trees. I will be looking for ribbons come early spring.

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Those will be good egg hatching areas for YP ribbons. They will float to shore when the ice melts which is good because the water is warmer there during spring YP spawn. If fry have a good survival percentage you should have a good year class in 2023. If not, something ate the fry or zooplankton was not abundant enough to feed lots of fry. Ice and water clarity look good so suspended silt should not be a problem for egg hatching.

You have LMB in the pond? Since I see you have green sunfish in the pond, trap as many as possible as soon as the water gets above 40F. Even 1" GSF love eating YP fry.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/24/23 03:15 PM.

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I stocked 9 LMB last summer. I do have the pile weighted down with cinder block, but on a 5 ft rope, so they have a little play as to where they choose to stay for good. Some of the other pile is weighted down directly too, so should be a little variation. The ponds clarity is very good. Has always had been in the CRP program all around it since the build, so not much silting, and cloudiness as I've seen in other ponds in the area. Trapping and fishing will hopefully take care of more of the GSF. I will likely provide pictures in April if I can find some ribbons/spawning.

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Your anchored brush for YP egg laying could easily be too far offshore for you to see the egg ribbons. My water is pretty clear and i place all my bush for ribbon collection with bottom butts on the bank so majority of the brush is in 6" to 2 ft of water depth so I can find and remove egg ribbons. YP will readily come into shoreline water to lay the eggs. IMO your brush will collect egg ribbons it is just you may not see very many of them due to depth and deeply placed ribbons.

After the LMB spawn in the pond the high numbers of fingerling and juvenile bass will eat very high numbers of the 1" to 4" YP before they grow to the 8" harvest size. Larger bass of 13"-15" will be eating 5"-7" YP. Young GSF will prey heavily on the YP fry. Don't be surprised if you don't catch very many 9"-10" YP in 4 years. Hopefully the amount of habitat as brush and some weed beds will provide enough refuge cover to grow you some YP for tasty fish fillet meals.


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My hope was that I got lucky and put only 9 MALE LMB in, equalling no LMB spawn, but unfortunately I'm sure there are a few females in the mix of 9. At this point I will try and catch some of the 9 bass and relocate them elsewhere and out of this pond, and with any luck, it won't be too late after a bass spawn occurs. GSF are still a problem, so stocking HSB may be what I revert to, to try and skew the four year outlook. Going to be an uphill battle, but it was from the start, and I'm pretty happy with what I've been able to achieve with the YP so far. Thank you for the advice on the spawn structure, I have read many, if not all your posts about it. I will have structure just as you have mentioned with the butt ends at shore for good viewing of ribbons, if avaliable. I was pleasantly surprised in the recruitment achieved in last years spawn, despite the abundant gsf. What I believe helped, is the amount of weeds beds that are around the edges of the pond. I'm sure the YP last year were using mainly the year priors ledtover weed beds that were and are still present. You can see the weed beds through the ice this winter even. Another interesting part to the whole YP pond equation is that I have pumpkinseed sunfish, ans they have achieved recruitment as well. Will be curious to see what role they will play with the YP.

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PS will have the same effect as BG (other than high recruitment numbers). That is PS will eat very small YP and YP will eat small PS.
















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Unless you used a catheter on the LMB during spawning season there is no way to positively tell if the LMB are male or female. (Well, a DNA test would tell you too, but that costs more $$) If they DO pull off a spawn in the pond, then all bets are off.


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Trying to catch 9 previously angler jaw jerked LMB will TRULY TEST your angler ability. Do some serious intense finesse fishing before the LMB spawn. If you can manage to catch all 9 LMB you could be on the Bass Pro angler circuit. By all means return and let us know how the bass removal goes this spring. This will be educational. One remaining bass will be okay in the YP pond. I have one customer with all perch and he uses harvest and 1 LMB to help control numbers of YP. Works very good for him.

PS will eat some YP fry but NOT nearly as many of small YP as the GSF. Plus in my experience PS are not as prolific as GSF. GSF are truly a PEST for most pond fisheries. I would also remove small PS until you know you have good spawns of YP. Then use numerous PS to help control numbers of fry and small YP. Annual small fish trapping will be a primary management effort as long as you have GSF in the pond.

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I'm laughing a little at this, but in all honesty, it will be difficult to catch the bass back out of the pond, no doubt, and I will probably go down swinging. However, I do believe they have helped in ridding of numerous GSF, which has enabled for some target fishing/samplng of the YP. Without the help of the LMB, I wouldn't be where I am at now in the pond. Just a double edge sword in this case with the LMB. I just wish HSB were known to successfully be able to control the high, nuisance population of GSF as well as the LMB do, but no one could 100% prove this. It's just we all known YP and LMB will not work, period. That was my thought too, exactly, Bill Cody on the pumpkinseeds within the pond. Removal of LMB and small PS, and of course the GSF. Anything for the YP...do the YP really deserve this much consideration and effort? Yes!

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Also, that is quite interesting in the one LMB per pond and harvest method for the one customer. Customer? What do you sell/offer?

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Originally Posted by Perch Pond
Also, that is quite interesting in the one LMB per pond and harvest method for the one customer. Customer? What do you sell/offer?

#1 would be knowledge. He has a doctorate in Algal Taxonomy. If you want to know what types of and how much algae is in your pond, send him a preserved water sample. He can tell you. I'll let him fill in the rest.


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Since I have lots of education in aquatic biology, all the locals call me the Pond Doctor. Thus as a side business, I help lots of locals manage their ponds. I have a long resume of my main business. Currently I routinely in the summer usually weekly identify algae for numerous OH and IN municipal water reservoir treatment plants and companies doing environmental surveys. I currently work with the local university for their algae projects and studies. This past year the university had me identifying algae from Lake Victoria, Africa. Lake V is a big one and is larger than each of the Great Lakes except Lk Superior. Previously have helped several other universities and Academy of Natural Sciences Phila.PA for algae studies. Also presently I am doing a long term study involving identifications of zooplakton, phytoplankton and attached algae aka periphyton from the Kootenai River Idaho. Other projects have involved identifications of all the Orders of benthic invertebrates and larval fishes. I stay busy!

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/27/23 09:32 PM.

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^^ In other words he spends a LOT of time looking at things in a microscope.


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Very good, Bill. Thanks for explaining. Lucky to have you with the specializations in these departments.

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I wanted to strike up a question as we wait on warmer temps, just out of curiosity. In a let's say, 135-acre body of water, how many YP would need stocked with bluegill, LMB, and black crappie already present to achieve a sustainable YP population? Is there anyone that has done this size of such a stocking or know what it would approximately take in amount of YP. A lot to this, but I'm mostly curious about this scenario. If you stocked a bunch of pregnant and fat, female YP along with mature males into 50 or more acres of water how many would it take to have a sustained pop? Will most all the males naturally stick with the females and be there to milt and do their thing for the female eggs that are strewn in the shallows with that much water present for them? I know of a 600+ acre body of water that has a consistent, stable YP population, where LMB, crappie, bluegill, and walleye are all present. Kind of peaks some curiosity as to how close to the male YP have to be to successfully spread their goods on the eggs?

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PPond asks " Will most all the males naturally stick with the females and be there to milt and do their thing for the female eggs that are strewn in the shallows with that much water present for them? " If you stocked a bunch of pregnant and fat, female YP along with mature males into 50 or more acres of water how many would it take to have a sustained pop?"
Yellow perch are group or school oriented fish. They usually relate nearby to each other. Usually for best egg fertilization and during a normal YP spawning event, often up to 8-10 or more eager males will trail along side of a swimming female that is extruding the egg ribbon or skein. As the ribbon moves out of the traveling female's body the males are providing milt to hopefully coat the ribbon in a cloud of white milt. Too few males results in a small and less dense cloud of milt and fewer eggs get fertilized. Thus some extruded ribbons can have varying degrees of percent fertilized eggs depending on how many attending males were present. I have seen some YP ribbons have 20% to up to 50% eggs not fertilized. Different eggs in each ribbon can have milt from different male perch, thus a ribbon can be fertilized with DNA from several males and the ribbon does not have just one set of genetic material from one male perch.

This whole perch spawning process is quite a bit different technique than the way sunfishes and bass spawn as with paired individuals creating a real high percentage of fertilization of each egg drop.

2nd Question; "If you stocked a bunch of pregnant and fat, female YP along with mature males into 50 or more acres of water how many would it take to have a sustained pop?" Well it all depends. What is the goal of stocking the YP? Bonus fish? See if any can survive in that water body? Provide more forage fish? Create a good catch rate that equaled the BG and BCP? A mixed bag of panfish as harvest? Numerous options are present.

One of the major limiting factors is - Is the habitat right for yellow perch and does the habitat promote survival of YP to harvestable sizes.

Second factor - will the competition factor for food and space be adequate for all size classes of YP to survive using the available food sources. Is there an excess for the new YP? Does the lake have enough food available to sustain a third panfish species? . Are the current panfish populations and the lake's carrying capacity of BG&BCP allowing enough food resources to be present for new individuals of YP.? I question if the niche requirement of YP will fit into the current carrying capacity of the 50 ac example lake's ecosystem. You don't just dump fish on top of a current full fish community or ecosystem and expect the new fish to THRIVE. Usually an established current ecosystem is at carrying capacity with current standing stock. Often if there was available growing space or room available,,, the existing fish would have already occupied this 'space'. There needs to be an unfilled niche for ANY new specie to really succeed.

Third factors are - Predation pressure, predator size class structure, and predator density in relation to habitat type and density. If the lake has LMB and walleye(WE). Both LMB & WE in my opinion do prefer to eat slender, relatively slow moving moving, more close to the bottom oriented fish, such as YP compared to eating can lid shaped BG & BCP who usually tend to live higher in the water column. If the lake has just LMB then predation would occur at just one "level". LMB and WE favor eating bottom and shallow oriented fish where all YP thrive or have a niche. IMO and experience,,,, LMB tend to be primarily day time active predators whereas WE are usually low light and evening / dark oriented predators - thus their big glassy eyes. YP are day active and vulnerable to LMB pressure. YP rest on bottom at night and are very vulnerable to WE predation. Thus with good populations of both LMB & WE, YP are attacked 24hrs a day - i.e. intense predator pressure. Will the current predators find it easier and more convenient to prey on offspring of the new YP compared to the other available forage items of can small lid BG&BCP? Forage density, predator sizes, their density, and amount or proper HABITAT / COVER are all important factors for YP survival with LMB and or WE. Lots of cover, often as submerged weed beds and maybe habitat diversity , IMO need to be present to allow enough YP to survive, reproduce, and grow to harvestable sizes.

Stocking Density - general rule is the more and larger ones that are stocked the better the chance some will survive. However many YP that you stock, IMO an equal number of similar sized other panfish species should be removed. Do it to make room for the new mouths to feed on a now increased amount of available uneaten natural foods.

IMO if lake conditions are conducive to YP survival stocking,,,, 10 to 20 mixed mature sizes ((5"-8"+) of YP per acre will allow you to see if survival in the lake is possible. Also in the right conditions stocking 5-10 YP as mature adults pre acre might allow a YP spawn their first spring. Another stocking option would be to add or stock YP egg ribbons or skeins into the lake's good habitat area. Proper Habitat then determines survival rate of hatchlings. YP can be prolific. The key amount to stock is to add enough for a YP spawn to occur before the stockers are eaten or die. Survival and growth of offspring will become evident in years 2 and 3 after initial stocking. IMO I don't think electroshocking is a good way to accurately sample and monitor YP populations because YP are bottom oriented, often in deeper water and electro-fishing does best when fish are up off the bottom in more littoral areas. YP IMO can be effectively sampled in large water bodies with fyke nets, gill nets and panfish angling in appropriate littoral areas and at appropriate times.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/26/23 04:17 PM. Reason: enhancements

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I feel very fortunate with such a response, thank you Bill Cody. I do know of one lake with WE present, as well as LMB, BG, and BC. Said like is 600+ acres. It must have certain habitat/cover for the YP to remain sustained. As for trophy size, it most definitely struggles, except one year was real good, but I believe heavy angling and the trophies drew enough crowd that it couldn't withstand it, as far as trophy YP. Very interesting with a 600 acre body of water. I appreciate this understanding and am just wanting to learn, and in turn and ultimately apply to pond YP. Hope others take something from this as well...I think they will.

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Thanks for the compliment. No matter how big the water body containing a great or trophy fishery,,,,,,, the facts of mismanagement, lack of quality monitoring, and improper fish harvest will degrade any fishery.


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Through drought last summer I finally made it to the perch pond this last weekend. Caught 11 nice sized keeper perch and many differing sizes of yp as well. The pumpkinseed population has blown up and I now have numerous(too many) of them instead of the green sunfish. Decent tradeoff. LMB have spawned which I'm not sure I wanted, but they are yet to show any significant predation on either of the 2 desired species in the yp and pumpkins. I need them to do more work as it stands now with the over abundant pumpkins and likely yp. I think the weed edge saves a lot of the new recruitment. Pleased to see the size of the bigger ones. One more year and I could be dealing with some true trophies in a pond here in Southern IA. Thanks for your help pond boss forums.

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