Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
KristofMI, DreamcatcherDB, PLF Ranch, Heritage Farms, Castamasta
17,563 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics39,380
Posts535,032
Members17,563
Most Online3,583
Jan 15th, 2020
Top Posters
esshup 26,105
ewest 20,824
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 13,990
Who's Online Now
5 members (teehjaeh57, Pat Williamson, Incept, 4CornersPuddle, esshup), 141 guests, and 143 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#541541 11/22/21 10:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 331
Likes: 16
A
azteca Offline OP
OP Offline
A
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 331
Likes: 16
Hello.

Once againI can't find food for my fish.
I'm starting to get tired of it.

I saw that there are studies in the U.S.A where fish are fed with Soy.

I would like to use my installation this spring to start this with my Yellow-perch larvae, to have vegetarian Yellow-perch, I will start Soybeans under different form.

Are there any members who have already tried this.
A+

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26,105
Likes: 199
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26,105
Likes: 199
I'd not waste my time trying soy, it by itself won't do anything, it has to be mixed with a lot of other things to make it digestible to the fish.

I would buy a years supply of food when it becomes available if you are having that much of a problem sourcing it during the year.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 331
Likes: 16
A
azteca Offline OP
OP Offline
A
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 331
Likes: 16
Hello.

What do you think of these scientists who say that the sea should be used to feed the human not to feed the fish.

A+

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26,105
Likes: 199
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26,105
Likes: 199
Originally Posted by azteca
Hello.

What do you think of these scientists who say that the sea should be used to feed the human not to feed the fish.

A+

I think the scientists have it wrong. To feed humans the sea has to feed the fish first.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 38
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 38
Which scientists said that?

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 138
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 138
I think the question Azteca pose is what do you think about people (to include some scientists) who say that the fish meal in fish food should not be in fish food but rather feed humans.

I've given a fair amount of thought to this issue myself and the conclusions I've drawn are that their arguments have ulterior motivation. In other words, its not humans they care about feeding but all the same the concerns they have are arguments in themselves and these arguments should be debated independently of an ingenuine concern for the hungry.

Fishmeal comes from two places.

1. By product of fileting (the carcasses of fish caught or grown for human consumption). This is the part of the fish that no one wants to eat.

2. By catch. (the incidental catch that isn't targeted by fishermen). This is the part of the catch ... that again ... no one wants to eat. This catch could be thrown overboard and often is but it is often already dead or too far gone to survive by the time it is dumped on the deck. We can make use of the catch by converting it into the food fish we grow. Which feeds people.

A person just has to support the use of the first source. Perhaps the second is debatable. People get pretty hyped up about the second wanting a moratorium on fishing and so on. The by catch represents income to those who do it (otherwise they would just throw it overboard) and so maybe they want to eliminate that income? Keep in mind, most wouldn't want to eat it but even to feed it someone who might you have to buy it, process it, transport it, distribute it, before you even get to eat it. Make sense? I don't think so either. People who grow fish make use of this resource and then people are fed.

Feeding hungry people is a diatribe. Those that say it want sustainable stewardship of the oceans which of course means reducing the catch and divvying it up to those with influence. Even some organizations that pretend to support sustainable stewardship depend on industry for money or in some cases even owned by industry insiders if you care to look deep enough. I say be careful what you believe because there is a lot of misinformation out there and you don't know who you can trust. In the end, the best hope for the oceans is zero emission sustainable fish farming and that which is something we are already achieving in some commercial operations. We will only get better at it, I think. We will also use less fish meal per pound of fish grown as we are making good progress there.

In the end, economics will prevail. Look at solar only 10 to 15 years ago. EXPENSIVE. Now with exception of wind, its the cheapest source of electrical energy. Its even cheaper to buy electricity for a car than gas now. Fossil fuel use will be greatly diminished because the source of energy for renewables is free and sustainable. This is the future for sure ... when we solve storage issues (which we will). We are at the beginning of a efficiency revolution when it comes to energy and food. There is much room for progress.

Last edited by jpsdad; 11/29/21 04:40 PM.

Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26,105
Likes: 199
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26,105
Likes: 199
I'd LOVE to see fish meal in fish food made from Asian Carp. BUT I don't know if that is a viable alternative than what is used now.

Last edited by esshup; 11/29/21 06:03 PM.

www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 138
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 138
Originally Posted by esshup
I'd LOVE to see fish meal in fish food made from Asian Carp. BUT I don't know if that is a viable alternative than what is used now.

Me too. I would bet its very nutritious. Maybe ocean fish would have a better mix of trace mineral but that could be offset by adding a vitamin/mineral mix. One of the problems with targeting a fish like this is there is potential for unintended bycatch. If they can be removed without going over quota on native fish that would be good for our native fish.

If a person had a way of catching a bunch of large ones ... I'd bet he could chunk the filets (leaving the bones, skin, and scales) and have a really great hand throw lump food for HSB or LMB.

BTW the carcasses are essentially fertilizer rich in calcium, phosphorus, and nitrogen. In a pond running below the speed limit ... this would find its way into the food chain.


Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26,105
Likes: 199
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26,105
Likes: 199
Originally Posted by jpsdad
Originally Posted by esshup
I'd LOVE to see fish meal in fish food made from Asian Carp. BUT I don't know if that is a viable alternative than what is used now.

Me too. I would bet its very nutritious. Maybe ocean fish would have a better mix of trace mineral but that could be offset by adding a vitamin/mineral mix. One of the problems with targeting a fish like this is there is potential for unintended bycatch. If they can be removed without going over quota on native fish that would be good for our native fish.

If a person had a way of catching a bunch of large ones ... I'd bet he could chunk the filets (leaving the bones, skin, and scales) and have a really great hand throw lump food for HSB or LMB.

BTW the carcasses are essentially fertilizer rich in calcium, phosphorus, and nitrogen. In a pond running below the speed limit ... this would find its way into the food chain.

I would think that an electroshock boat or a gill net with large openings would work.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 331
Likes: 16
A
azteca Offline OP
OP Offline
A
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 331
Likes: 16

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,824
Likes: 96
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,824
Likes: 96
Azteca and guys - see below from a recent PB mag issue

It was recently reported that one leading University in collaboration with others developed a proprietary soybean-based, high performance protein ingredient for fish food that is both economical and sustainable. The process involves using a food grade microbe to greatly reduce the anti-nutritional factors that have long hindered the use of plant based proteins in fish food. The process produces a product that is 70% protein which is more digestible (near 100% vs 80% for standard fish meal) and can be formulated to meet various amino acid, vitamin and mineral requirements. Tests were conducted on multiple species for palatability, digestibility and conversion efficiency and found to exceed marine fish meal. The product has been tested in other university research facilities and numerous commercial aquaculture sites yielding outstanding results in marine and freshwater fish species and shellfish. The product ME-PRO is now in commercial production and used all over the world. Look for its use in your favorite fish foods.


Also YP can do well on a lower % protein food than many predator fish.

Last edited by ewest; 11/30/21 10:06 AM.















Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 331
Likes: 16
A
azteca Offline OP
OP Offline
A
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 331
Likes: 16
Hello.

This spring I will start feeding the Yellow-perch larvae with Soy milk.

https://prairieaquatech.com/feed-ingredients/
A+

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 138
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 138
eric, thanks for the post. So this is what I mean and this is direction of aquaculture. Notably missing at the website is pricing. I was interested not from the perspective of buying it but rather to understand how it relates to fish meal. I presume there are savings in cost ... hopefully a lot ... over fish meal. I noticed available phosphorus is very good for a vegetable sourced feed ingredient. The amount is ideal for trout especially.

esshup, that's great idea but I think probably it will only be DOW staff that would be allowed to harvest that way. I am reminded of when I used to live in Colorado. The DOW would give the spent salmon to anyone who would come by to pick them up. Everyone would get in line and they would put 2 in your ice chest each time you passed by distribution. The line would revolve. I think the limit was 10 per licensee. It was a long time ago but I did it once and it seems like we received 20 of them. We didn't do it again because they were (NOT) really fresh as salmon go ... so the texture was no longer peak like when caught bright in Blue Mesa.

Azteca, hey I get what you are asking and what you would like to do. This is the future and hopefully these kind of improvements ultimately allow ocean ecosystems to recover. I would just say that people eat soybeans too so the same arguments about feeding fish instead of people apply. But dangit, given a plate of tofu or a plate of yellow perch you can bet your good hand that I am going to eat the yellow perch! We shouldn't feel bad about growing fish to eat and enjoy ... whether we feed them fish waste or fermented soybeans.

Last edited by jpsdad; 11/30/21 08:22 PM.

Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers



Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
boyscout123, Brian Wayne
Recent Posts
New Pond-install a drain
by day18 - 01/18/22 07:25 PM
Buying Floridas?
by FireIsHot - 01/18/22 06:40 PM
Aerator Causing Poor Ice Quality?
by Fyfer123 - 01/18/22 02:31 PM
Build a Dock on Ice?
by esshup - 01/18/22 01:46 PM
Building a bridge across my pond
by KristofMI - 01/18/22 12:41 PM
Pond Muck Question
by SkunkedAgain - 01/18/22 10:02 AM
8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s
by wbuffetjr - 01/18/22 08:43 AM
Best food choice for yellow perch and RES
by Snipe - 01/17/22 09:24 PM
Ducks on the pond
by bryani289swmi - 01/17/22 08:18 PM
End Of My Tilapia
by CityDad - 01/17/22 06:49 PM
Yellow perch eggs.
by azteca - 01/17/22 05:13 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Baldcypress
Baldcypress
by Stressless, January 11
Still active
Still active
by Shorty, December 15
Using FishMap
Using FishMap
by Stressless, December 9
Tilapia catching season
Tilapia catching season
by Quixotic, December 5
Coyote on Deer Opening Day
Coyote on Deer Opening Day
by Theo Gallus, November 29
New Old Pond v3
New Old Pond v3
by HTNFSH2, November 19

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5