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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,470 Likes: 107
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,470 Likes: 107 |
Back on another note ..... This makes me want 2 dig a small forage pond. But also you both make it sound really complicated for us rookies. Not tryin to offend anyone there just being honest. You throwing around a whole lot of numbers on a pretty simple design. He dosnt seem to care about catching a wall hanger. Iv been reading and posting for a couple years now but my head also hurts after reading this.
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Joined: Aug 2021
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OP
Joined: Aug 2021
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Hey guys, I really appreciate the interest and advice. I'm sorry that I had not chimed in as I have been away much of this weekend. There is an extensive amount of detail and advice to consider here, and I just want to let everyone know I will respond as soon as I can absorb and consider the options presented, including different strategies for each pond. I do have natural spring issue with one of the two ponds that I need to deal with as well. Also, I want to clear any misunderstanding regarding management of these ponds as I am certainly willing to actively manage these ponds. I would just prefer that it not involve a pellet plan. If there is a reasonable food source solution involving a stocking program while avoiding overpopulation, that is what I am looking for. I would be happy with predictable BG or HBG fun and the excitement of an occasional HSB with restocking as needed. Thank you so much for the intense experience and time offered in response to my post. I will chime in again with specific thoughts on these responses a soon as possible.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,251 Likes: 584
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,251 Likes: 584 |
Good reply, Polobbie.
I would add that EVERY pond is a unique science experiment. You cannot make a perfect pond at the start, and then have the pond remain perfect as it matures!
If you get the results you want without pellet feeding then you are good. If you don't, then it is relatively easy to add supplemental feeding at a later date.
It is definitely easier to install most things at your pond during the initial phase, but remain flexible and be prepared to change things in the future if your pond shows some pressing need.
Good luck on your project!
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475 Likes: 264
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475 Likes: 264 |
A fairly easy stocking plan (for your TX area) assuming you want LMB and a reasonably balanced population with some management but no feeding. This plan should let the stocker fish grow in a balanced environment for 3 years (vs 18-24 mths in a standard stocking plan) after which time you will have to harvest to match conditions.
FH at 15 lbs per acre BG/RES and LMB (2-3 inch fish) 2 mths later - stocking BG/RES at 25 times the LMB (i.e. 2000 BG/500RES and 100 LMB per acre).
For 1/4 acre 10 lbs FH - because its hard to get less than 10 lbs 500 BG and 125 RES 25 LMB
There are other options of course.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,285 Likes: 288
Moderator
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Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,285 Likes: 288 |
Back on another note ..... This makes me want 2 dig a small forage pond. But also you both make it sound really complicated for us rookies. Not tryin to offend anyone there just being honest. You throwing around a whole lot of numbers on a pretty simple design. He dosnt seem to care about catching a wall hanger. Iv been reading and posting for a couple years now but my head also hurts after reading this. No reason for head pain, because productive forage pond's truly require only 3 things, juvenile fish of your choice, water, and a hole in the ground. I've had mine for years now and would be lost without it. If I was prioritizing the important issues to consider, it would be how do I get them out of the pond and into the primary pond first, water quality, water quality, water quality a very close second, pond shape third, keeping the pond free of obstructions(brush for cover, fallen limbs, water weeds, etc. forth, and location fifth. If you google hatchery ponds, you'll see that the vast majority are shaped like a shoe box. That rectangular shape allows fish to be pulled with a single net pull without dragging unneeded netting on the ground, or being too narrow and fish go around the ends of the net requiring multiple pulls. The depth only needs to be 4-5' deep, and that can keep net costs down. 25'-30' wide is plenty, and you can make it as long as you want if more water volume is needed. I used sown together cheap Cabelas minnow seines for several years. They weren't the best, but they did work. "IF" you decide to get a better net, then be sure and go with a Raschel knotless weave, as it if far better for small fish in that net, and could be beat up, or even killed, by heavier duty knotted nets. When dealing with fingerling sized fish, go with 5 gallon buckets instead of fishing nets to take them out of the hatchery pond water. Fishing nets do work fine with larger fish, but don't overload the net. If the hatchery pond is very close to the pond, then they can be moved in the buckets. If the pond is a good distance from the primary pond, then a way to transport them will also be needed. I use a 120 quart Igloo cooler with O2, but a spray bar will also work for short periods. All the above covers the shape of the pond and location also. The water numbers I keep track of are hardness, ph(tested at daylight, and mid afternoon), and alkalinity. All 3 greatly help the growth of small fish if kept within the recommended parameters. Lots of good test kits out there, and I use LaMotte products. Obstructions of any kind complicate dragging a weighted net. Sticks, weeds etc. are like velcro to nets, so keep the pond free of those if possible. Having said that, I keep pallets and water primrose at the top end of my hatchery pond to provide protection for fry. I did my last seine of the year a month or so ago, and just dropped the pond a couple of feet to force the fry into general population. So I seined the pond, drained it, and will treat it with hydrated lime, also called type 2 lime, then refill it and add Sonar to control weeds. A few other things that I do, but it may just be me, are having an emergency aerator attachment for one of my 2" water pumps, and not using a feeder on my hatchery pond. Several years ago, I raised juvenile tilapia to numbers that were dangerous to the fish. Highflyer did the heavy mental lifting for me, but the quick lock venturi pvc outlet dumps tons of air into the pond when needed. I've gotten tons of usage out of it over the last year or two. I raise a lot of sunfish(CNBG and juvenile LMB) in my hatchery pond, and they shut down completely after a rapid temp drop. I hand feed daily based on the aggressiveness of the fish, and a feeder will dump food in the water that won't be eaten, and I don't want that. It's a waste of money, and it certainly doesn't do the pond any good. Doing do diligence before you ever put fish in a hole in the ground will make raising fish exponentially easier down the road. Hope this helps
AL
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esshup, jpsdad |
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,470 Likes: 107
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,470 Likes: 107 |
I have a section of my pond that im in the middle of puting a bridge over. Thought about using some netting under the bridge and using one side as a hachery of sorts. Then i could just net out wht i wanted to make fairly easy or just remove the netting.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,285 Likes: 288
Moderator
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Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,285 Likes: 288 |
I sure wish I would have known that. I was just going by what you said on your post about building a forage pond. Been there, done that with partitioning off pond sections with nets, and I would have been happy to share potential issues with doing that.
Good luck with your plans.
Last edited by FireIsHot; 08/23/21 06:57 PM.
AL
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475 Likes: 264
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475 Likes: 264 |
Do a search for blocking nets - plenty here on the subject.
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Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 5
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OP
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 5 |
OK Quarter Acre, while many of the other suggestions were interesting and gave thought to a number of highly managed experiments, your approach appears relatively simple and most directly in line with what I had in mind. It is not reliant on pellet feeding, controls overpopulation with HSB and HBG while maintaining their growth via stocked and reproducing feeder fish/crayfish. Feeder supply is given a strong head start followed with restocking as needed and HSB are eventually replenished after a number of years. I also need to point out the two ponds could not be more different. The pond I plan to stock with HSB is a rather typical pear shape wide open to sun with a dam holding water inflow from a channeled 17 acre watershed, so it gets huge inrushes at times with big rains. It has an outflow spillway into a swale taking overflow into a nearby wet weather creek about 150 feet away. The second pond is shaped like a barbell bent into a "U" shape and is about 400 feet from and 10 ft lower in elevation than the planned HSB pond. It is nestled among tall shade producing cedar elms and live oaks with a 5 acre unchanneled watershed inflow, no dam, and so no need for a controlled outflow spillway. It has spring inflows (which I don't yet know how to solve) which naturally fills the pond to about 20% to 30%, but is also preventing me from sealing it. It is about 100 ft from the same previously mentioned wet weather creek. Given its shape, I feel this pond would be more restrictive and/or stressful for the larger HSB. Because of its lower elevation, I could not gravity flow feeder fish into the HSB pond as you suggest, but I could net feeder fish from it and transport them. Any further thoughts or guidance, if any, would be appreciated. Thanks to everyone who responded.
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