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kingfish #538263 07/29/21 04:09 PM
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Very nice, Flame. May I ask how much a pallet is, and how many bags are on a pallet? I think it is important to mention that Triton uses "animal and plant based protein" and not fish based, like the AquaMax stuff is. I think the fish meal is just a palatability thing anyway, if I'm not mistaken, and I don't think it matters where the protein comes from. Correct me if I'm wrong.


"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." - Donny Miller
kingfish #538265 07/29/21 05:21 PM
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Steve, a full pallet is 40 bags. It is the same price for the feed but...the shipping will maybe increase some for the extra weight. I have never ordered more than a 1/2 pallet...20 bags at a time. My pond and my friends pond are only 2 acres each. We usually order twice a year. I want to note: I am NOT talking down ANY brand of feed. This is just what I started using and will continue as long as I get good results.


Dear Alcohol, We had a deal where you would make me funnier, smarter, and a better dancer... I saw the video... We need to talk.
Flame #538268 07/29/21 08:52 PM
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Good feed

kingfish #538280 07/30/21 09:20 AM
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Cargill is good feed with good conversion in LMB and BG. It is very dollar efficient for the conversion as well. I am referencing Greg Grimes findings where under his analysis it only slightly underperformed the Purina (MVP I think). Cargill IIRC provided conversion at the lowest cost. I'll link that page later as I am traveling.

Its hard to argue that protein is protein and so I do think fish based lipids and proteins are better ... But for aquaculture acceptable cost efficient alternatives are essential to sustainable feeds. So I see Cargill as a feed worthy of consideration.

Steve_, could you reference the source saying fish meal is not an additive of Cargill feeds? Most manufactures are very reluctant to speak about feed formulations. Also, I am reluctant to accept any claim that protein is sourced only to fish in any particular feed. In the end, if one feeds there will be a conversion/maintenance benefit. Where the focus is recreational, the difference in feeds isn't all that noticeable. In aquaculture, the difference is an economic effect that deserves much deeper consideration.


Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


kingfish #538287 07/30/21 02:42 PM
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Steve's reference to the Triton contents is on the bag tag. Not sure where the ingredients for each size would be.

Triton is easy for me to get, and it certainly makes my hatchery fresh fish eat instantly. Todd Overton and I have discussed fish food over the last 8-10 years, and he said Cargill Triton was currently the best bang for the buck. I'm also content with Cargill until I can see 5,6,7 years worth of results that change my thoughts as well. Cargill's Triton fish food is aimed squarely at aquaculture facilities, and I feel like it would be more prevalent if they a distribution network like Purina. Having said that, Cargill also makes TSC's branded fish food, and it's nutritional numbers are much lower than the Triton line. That's why TSC's Sportman's Choice line is so much cheaper. Less steak, more potatoes.


AL
kingfish #538290 07/30/21 05:11 PM
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jpsdad, no I cannot, I was only referencing a comment someone made on another thread, saying the ingredients were listed as "animal and plant-based protein" or something like that. I cannot confirm nor deny the fish meal content in Triton, if any. In aquaculture, does the source of the protein matter? I'm curious.

FireIsHot, yeah it seems that way, but it also seems like it's a regional thing. Unless you're in TX (near Overton's) or want a pallet, you're probably better off with Purina/AquaMax, which I can get shipped to my local TSC and pick it up for less than $50 per 50-pound bag. It would be $79 to ship a single bag of Triton to my front door, and I don't believe TSC can order it, which would be nice.

Last edited by Steve_; 07/30/21 05:32 PM.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." - Donny Miller
kingfish #538294 07/30/21 06:09 PM
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As I mentioned earlier, I think it may. Perhaps this would limit the conversion. I would think 100% dehydrated ground fish would have the best conversion of any possible feed. Perhaps higher proportions of dried fish are healthier rations.

IMHO, adding the fish instead of other acceptable cost effective protien alternatives adds no relevant value. Though it may improve conversion ... The cost of conversion cannot be improved by using fish instead of alternatives, for example. Unless one is providing all the sustenance over a full lifetime (like Richmond Mill's lake) I don't think it makes much a difference for health either. In most recreational water ... Feed is supplemental where most of the food is provided by the pond.

I would just say ... Don't take for granted that Cargill competitors use fish instead ... They may still use similar sources for some .. Or even the bulk of their feed's protein. Most producers are not talking about the proportion of ingredients. They are meeting their label requirements of protein and lipids and reserve the right to adjust formulations.

I consider the aquaculture focus of cost efficient conversion to be a great plus for Cargill. They know their customers are monitoring their feed and will go elsewhere if it under performs. Recreational users neither have the means, incentive, nor conditions in their ponds to appropriately quantify the metrics. So I see the feed as completely legit riding on the coattails of the aquaculture industry embracing it.

Last edited by jpsdad; 07/30/21 06:17 PM.

Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


kingfish #538300 07/31/21 09:57 AM
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I’d be curious to see if there’s any science behind the difference between animal-based, fish-based and plant-based protein sources in aquaculture. For humans, fish, eggs, poultry, and meat all are considered “complete“ sources of protein because they contain all of the essential amino acids that we need on a daily basis. Things like nuts, lentils and beans are considered “incomplete” sources of protein because they’re lacking one or more essential amino acids.

I think whether your fish food is fish-based or animal-based doesn’t matter as much as it is for animal-based versus plant-based. Your protein is only as good as the amino acids it has in it. Whether that’s true for fish, I’m not sure.


"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." - Donny Miller
kingfish #538304 07/31/21 01:44 PM
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I agree with much of what you said above.

Probably what differentiates one food from another is more about what's there that isn't needed or isn't good to eat. When it comes to predator fish, nothing could be better than the food it normally eats. It hard to argue that there could be anything in fish that is harmful or unneeded for predator fish. The nutrition profile of dried fish should very nearly be a perfect match to the nutritional needs of predator fish particularly, but possibly also for other fish as well. TP utilize plant based proteins very effectively but my hunch is that they could more efficiently metabolize dried fish.


Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


kingfish #538313 07/31/21 06:02 PM
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Here is Greg Grimes' presentation on his feed study.

Http://lakework.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Bluegill-Feed-Trials.pdf

Last edited by jpsdad; 07/31/21 06:05 PM.

Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


jpsdad #538374 08/02/21 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jpsdad
Here is Greg Grimes' presentation on his feed study.

Http://lakework.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Bluegill-Feed-Trials.pdf

Thanks for that! Interesting stuff. While a small sample size, I find it interesting that AquaMax came out on top, even over a higher protein feed.


"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." - Donny Miller
kingfish #538379 08/02/21 09:23 PM
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You are most welcome Steve_. Perhaps the difference is Aquamax's proportion of fishmeal. I don't know for sure but it's great to see that you noticed that juicy tidbit. Good observation and review.


Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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