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#537604 07/12/21 04:05 PM
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I've been thinking about taking out a few untrained largemouth and adding some untrained smallmouth bass to my blugegill/largemouth pond as a bonus fish. The pond has quite a few little bluegills, crawfish, minnows, snails, salamanders and frogs so I think the smallmouth would find enough to eat even with some big largemouth in there. I've read that SMB are easier to train than LMB. For those that have done it should I get a pen to put the SMB in for training purposes or just put them in and hope they learn from the bluegills that are already trained to take pellets?

The closest I've come to training the LMB is they'll come eat the bluegills at feeding time. Hoping training SMB is easier but would like to hear from some people that have done it successfully!

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When training fish to eat pellets more success is accomplished by confining or crowding the fish in a confined space (cage works well or a flow through system). A small raceway system can work well for this esp for crowding fish for initial pellet training. Crowding increases competition for food and seems to increase the percentage of feed trained fish. Ideally the fish should be confined or crowded in a smaller area and maintain good water quality. As fish are accepting pellets enlarge the containment area to minimize stress and help improve water quality. The longer the are confined eating pellets the stronger their tendency to stay on feed when released into the pond. Normally I initially use a small cage and then when fish are eating pellets well I move fish into a larger cage.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/12/21 09:15 PM.

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This expands on the good advice that Bill mentions above. The fact sheet is prepared for LMB but SMB might not be significantly different. Recommendations for density are there. The section on feed training is near the end of the document.

Last edited by jpsdad; 07/12/21 09:33 PM.

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Thanks Bill. That makes sense to me that it would be easier to get them on pellets when you can keep them from eating other things and introduce competition. Are there any rules of thumb for how big a containment area should be? I was thinking start with half a dozen 10-12" SMB, big enough that the LMB should leave them alone.

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I once talked to a guy who put some bass fry in a 50 gallon aquarium. First he fed them flake type fish food and ground pellets. Then he went to full pellets when he put them in a 1/10 acre pond. He stocked them without prey for the first 3 or 4 months. Next he added fatheads but, at first, kept tossing pellets. He de watered the pond and put everything in a larger pond. They kept eating the pellets and assumedly preyed on bluegills.

And then, one of our West Texas droughts hit that ended the experiment.


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jpsdad - the link to feed training of fish does not open for me. Do you have a better url for it?

Here is info I found on the web for feed training fingerling LMB. The basic techniques will apply to smallmouth.
FINGERLINGS 1”-2” Feed Training: For the first day, largemouth bass fingerlings are offered brine shrimp as soon as they are stocked in a tank and every two hours thereafter for three days. On successive days, staff offer fingerlings a high protein starter feed (Otohime C-1) that is similar in size and color to live brine shrimp. The starter feed contains krill meal, which is a key attractant, and is essential during initial feed training. By the third day, Richloam Bass Diet (1-mm pellet) is mixed with the starter feed. Starting with 75% starter diet to 25% Richloam Diet, the amount of starter is slowly decreased until 100% Richloam Diet is being fed. Depending on fish size and water temperature, conversion to pure Richloam diet takes 4-10 days, with smaller fish and colder temperatures requiring more time. Feeding can then be reduced to every 1-2 hours. Automatic overhead (Loudon type) feeders reduce manual labor. It is important when feeding to spread feed evenly “in front of the fish’s nose.” This ensures all bass have an opportunity to train on feed. Once trained, feeding frequency can be reduced to every 2-4 hours to achieve fast growth.
Training fingerlings:
Steps in Feed-Training – LMB Fingerlings
• seined from the nursery pond,
• graded into groups of similar size,
• crowded into flow-through tanks (at between 300 and 400 per cubic foot or 40 to 50 fish per gallon determined by rate of flow-through), and
• fed a diet, gradually replacing freeze-dried krill, ground fish flesh, or fish eggs with a diet high in fish meal (such as a high-quality salmon diet).
The replacement/transition to formulated diet is done over a 7-day period, and the fish are fed 2 to 8 times a day at about 15% of their body weight. Use the following table as a feeding guide:
Day 1-3 100% Krill
Day 4-6 75%Krill 25% formulated feed
Day 7-9 50% Krill 50% feed
Day 10-12 25% krill 75% feed
Day 13-26 100% feed.
As indicated in the last row above, the LMB are fed straight formulated diet in tanks for at least 2 weeks until they are stocked into a pond. This whole feed-training process works best at higher temperatures (80° – 86°F water temperature) and under good water quality conditions (dissolved oxygen > 4 mg/L, temperature < 89°F, ammonia < 1 mg/L).
The feed-trained LMB should be stocked and fed a 40 to 48% protein (and 8 to 10% fat) salmonid diet 2 to 3 times a day to satiation. Using a floating diet is important in order to observe when the fish stop feeding and to keep the pellets in the fish’s “strike zone” for longer. If the bass are at least 1 gram each in size, feed them a 1/16-inch floating pellet (smaller bass < 1 g should get a smaller #1 or #2 crumble pellet). Using this schedule, the bass should reach 3 inches by early fall and can then be stocked into grow-out ponds.
Move the bass only when water temperatures are above 55°F; handling at lower temperatures usually results in severe fungal infections. An alternative plan is to stock the newly feed-trained bass directly into the grow-out pond at 10,000 to 20,000 to the acre. At these grow-out densities, the bass should reach 1/4 pound by November of their first year.
During this first-year grow-out, they should be fed twice a day (an hour after sunrise and an hour before sunset) to satiation with a feed having a protein level above 40% and a fat level above 15%. This feed often contains > 35% fish meal. Recent research has shown that fish meal can be reduced to about 8 to 10% when replaced by poultry by-product meal.
Keep carbohydrate levels below 20% because LMB do not handle high carbohydrates very well. At this low level, however, feed pellets do not float very well, and the bass must be fed slowly to give them time to get to the pellets before they sink.

This below is from SRAC-201 (Southern Regional Aquaculture Center), Largemouth bass do not normally accept artificial feeds, but can be trained to do so. This method has not been widely practiced by commercial producers, but is useful in culturing larger fingerlings and "stocker" bass of 4 to 8 inches in length. The demand for this size fish is fueled by requirements for remedial stocking of ponds and lakes. It has been reported that bass fed on pelleted rations will normally not grow above 1 0 inches in length without other feed being available. Fingerling bass of about 3/4 to 1 inch long must be crowded in tanks, raceways, or cages for feed training. Crowding promotes competition for food and better acceptance of pelleted rations. Grade closely to prevent cannibalism. Good water quality and disease prevention are essential Fingerlings should be fed 1.0 to 2.5 mm diameter moist pellets at least 8 times per day including night feedings, 7 days per week. Mixing ground fish with the feed sometimes improves acceptance. By gradually reducing the amount of ground fish, the fish can be weaned to a prepared diet. Researches at San Marcos National Fish Hatchery and Training Center found that Biodief® produced excellent results. Feed at least 15 percent of body weight daily during the training period. Grading is periodically necessary to maintain uniformity and minimize cannibalism. Pellet size can be increased corresponding to fish growth. From 65 to 95 percent of the initially stocked fish should learn to take prepared feeds and should double in weight before transferring to growout ponds. Feed-trained fish can be stocked in growout ponds at rates of 1 0,000 per acre or more depending on the size of "stockers" desired. They can also be grown out in raceways or cages. Stocking density in these intensive culture systems varies with water exchange rate, oxygenation, and filtration. Floating mats, hay bales, flowing water, or other methods to concentrate fish for feeding accelerates in-pond feed acceptance. Feed a 2 to 3 mm pellet several times per day for a week or more. Feed all that the fish will eat which should be about 15 percent of stocked weight daily. The rate will gradually drop to about 5 percent daily. When the fish reach about 4 inches, a high quality dry ration can be substituted to reduce cost. Bass should average 6 to 8 inches in length in about 100 days. More than 80 percent survival and 1.5:1 food conversion can be expected. Though fingerling largemouth bass are fairly easy to move, with few death losses, the larger grown out "stockers" require much more care in handling and transporting. Information on these techniques is available in SRAC-390 through 394.

I have feed trained larger sized SMB in the 6"-9" size range. The SRAC201 noted their method is also useful for culturing "stocker" bass of 4 to 8 inches. One of the most important items I learned is to initially use soft foods as noted in the training method described above (freeze-dried krill, ground fish flesh, or fish eggs). Fish will often at first reject hard pellets primarily because of hardness or texture. Most everything fish eat is damp, moist and relatively soft compared to a pellet. They usually have to be gradually conditioned to eat hard pellets. I usually start the training process using pieces of night crawler, shrimp, clams, cut fish, etc. Moisten or soften the pelleted feed so it can be rolled or formed into pieces that have the consistency of the soft foods you are using. The fish will usually then readily accept the soft pellets. Most high protein pellets have flavor enhancers. When fish are eating soft pellets then you can gradually transition to firmer pellets.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/14/21 08:41 AM.

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Bill:

It's SRAC Publication No. 0201 published in 2020


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Bill, I posted the link for SRAC 201. In particular, I linked it because it had guidelines for density as a proportion of fish weight to water weight. Grams per liter is parts per thousand and the fact sheet cited a density of 5 to 8 grams per liter. An equivalent in cubic feet would be .3 to .5 lbs per ft^3. Don't know it applies to larger fish ... but at the lower density, 6 11" LMB would require ~12 cu feet. So a 2x2x3 cage may be appropriate for the OP. Below is an excerpt on recommended weight density (recommended for feed training 2" fingerlings).

[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

Last edited by jpsdad; 07/14/21 12:45 AM.

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Just something to think about. Some hatcheries grow advanced fingerlings on feed. If the OP purchased a few of these ... he wouldn't need to train them.


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Good info guys! The .3 to .5 lbs per ft^3 rule of thumb does seem a little small but that study mentions the benefits of crowding so it makes sense. Trained SMB are hard to find; otherwise I agree jpsdad that would be much easier to buy some that are already trained. I found a hatchery that used to sell trained SMB but it's been 4-5 years since they've done it (only have trained LMB now).

Sounds like my next step for this crazy idea is to find or build some sort of cage. 2x2x3 is relatively small... Might look around at aquariums too. That'd probably be easier to keep track if the fish are eating the pellets or not compared to trying to look down into the pond.


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