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Re: Feed trial experiment
Snipe #536187 06/06/21 11:18 PM
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Spent the last 8 days in Florida but back to work..
Feed received and ready to start a re-sort.
I'm guessing a couple of days I should be close and ready to start this..
Net pen is back in water, I've found if I "season" the net with Algae, I have near zero fungus issues.

Re: Feed trial experiment
Snipe #536202 06/07/21 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Snipe
Net pen is back in water, I've found if I "season" the net with Algae, I have near zero fungus issues.

The feed trial hasn't even started - and I have already learned something important from a Pond Boss person documenting their experiences!

Re: Feed trial experiment
Snipe #536283 06/08/21 10:43 PM
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+1 on FishingRod's comment.

Snipe, when you sort ... could you give us a lesson on how to sex adolescent BG? I would like to learn how to sex 5" BG when they are not yet demonstrating the full adult phenotype of the sexes.


Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Re: Feed trial experiment
Snipe #536287 06/08/21 11:43 PM
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jpsdad, I will get some pics.. I've got about 31 sorted today, I should be close tomorrow..
I had an "unplanned" forage die-off last night that is about to kill me just thinking about it and that took a good portion of my time cleaning that up today. I seined my forage pond after pumping most water out and had around 45-55lbs of Red shiner, BNM and some FHM I put in a 700 gal tank with an aeration system and had a valve fail sometime in the night..95%-97% loss..makes me sick as hell.

Re: Feed trial experiment
Snipe #536289 06/09/21 12:07 AM
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Snipe,
I’m sorry to hear about that. That definitely sucks and makes you sick to your stomach but be thankful that it didn’t happen in October and you had to wait 6 months to try again. I’m just trying to turn lemons into lemonade.

Re: Feed trial experiment
Snipe #536290 06/09/21 12:08 AM
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Nothing worse than being greeted with a fish kill. So sorry to hear about it, hope it doesn't throw off your plans too much.


8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17,L, 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 25 HSB & 250 F1 9/20,L,180# RBT 12/20, 206, 7k TFS,100#TP 5/21, 225



Re: Feed trial experiment
Snipe #536301 06/09/21 08:34 AM
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I am very saddened hear about the loss of your forage, Snipe. You've got a lot to on plate to work out so take care of business first, everything else can wait.


Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Re: Feed trial experiment
Snipe #537355 07/04/21 11:40 PM
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Time for an update. Going to keep things simple because this has been kicking my butt for various reasons..
After all fish were measured and weighed, I ended up using 40 per side.
Average weight= 54.78g
Average length= 141.1mm
WR average total= 99.477%
I weighed many fish in many combinations to get as close as possible in each side per weight.
Left=2191.6g, Right 2190.4
Left fed Purina Aquamax 500
Right fed Optimal BG
Both sides fed 3% of Total weight at start=2.2oz per side of each feed.
Day 11 I pulled, measured 10 fish from each and weighed the total in a bucket with 20lbs of water.
Purina side (left)=2449.2g
Optimal side (right)= 2408.8g, = 40.4 diff, minus original skew of 1.2g on left = total gain of
Purina= 257.8
Optimal= 218.4
39.4g advantage to Purina at 11 days= 1.6% better weight gain.
I am NOT going to pull and weigh every 10 days-this was incredibly stressful to the fish (and me)..
I'm going 30 days before I pull again which will be 22 July, 2021.
Personal notes at this time-- No real difference was noted on how fast fish began to feed. Some days fish fed much more aggressively than others but both sides reacted very much the same. Note- I expected some mortality after handling fish but have yet to note any morts.
The bottom line right now is this is just the beginning and I'm sure there are small errors that add up, so don't read too much into this just yet, as 10-11 days doesn't mean much to me at this point.
I chose not to post a bunch of pics right now because this whole deal has been way more time consuming than I had previously planned for, but I'm keeping up the best i can so we all can get "something" out of this without too many open variables to contend with.
I will add I went to 2.6oz/day on feed after weighing to stay ahead of the curve and they still consume total in less than 30 seconds at each of 3 feedings (.87g per event).

3 members like this: 4CornersPuddle, RStringer, jpsdad
Re: Feed trial experiment
Snipe #537389 07/05/21 11:25 PM
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jpsdad, where you at?? I need some input on feed rates. :-))

Re: Feed trial experiment
Snipe #537395 07/06/21 08:16 AM
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OK. So I know some may think the FCR is very high and should have been lower. However, the FCR is excellent and demonstrates that both feeds are of very good quality. We can arrive at this understanding by comparing the feed to dried fish using the assumption that dried fish converts as well as its equivalent wet weight.

It's been commonly said that annual maintenance of a predator is 5 lbs forage for every pound of predator. The equivalent dry weight of 5 lbs BG (BG have moisture content of 80%) would then be 1 lb per year per pound of predator. So we can imagine that 1 lb of feed made from 100% BG would be able to sustain 1 lb of predator. Let's also assume that BG require the same maintenance. It is also commonly said that forage consumed above maintenance converts at 10 lbs Forage to 1 lb gain of predator. Converting to dry weight BG, then 2 lbs of dried BG converts to 1 lb gain. Let's assume this conversion also applies to BG as well and so let's feed a hypothetical group of BG a hypothetical feed made from 100% dried BG at the rate fed thus far in the trial working with this conversion and maintenance.

Below is a spreadsheet where predicted growth is calculated from the feed consumed exceeding the maintenance. The FCR is the dry weight equivalent of 10 lbs wet BG/1 LB wet predator (2 lbs Dry BG/1 LB wet predator). So an FCR of 2, based on the assumption of feed made from 100% dried fish. The maintenance rate is 1 lb/lb fish/150 day growing season or 0.677 % of body weight per day. The feed rate is 2.2 ounces which is 2.847% of the initial weight of the treatments. The feed rate is fixed for the first 10 days beginning day 1 and ending day 11. So the first thing I want you to notice is just how close this prediction is to actual results thus far. The predicted gain is only off by 3 grams (1.26%). So it is clear that if dry fish will convert equally with respect to the wet weight equivalent, both feeds in the trial convert comparably relative to 100% dried fish.

[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

In the next SS I adjusted the FCR until the prediction matches Snipes results so far. This really doesn't change the FCR that much (~1%) so its pretty remarkable that we could predict the outcome of 10 days of feeding this closely with such arcane principles of 5 lbs maintenance per year and 10 lbs forage to 1 lb gain. Its also remarkable that the feeds slightly out performed the assumptions of dried fish as feed.

[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

To be sure, dried fish may convert better than its wet weight equivalent. I don't know, but if it does, or if the conversion of wet weight forage is better than assumed then gross conversion in cages lower than a Gross FCR=2 could be obtained. Please keep in mind that the limit is very close to 2 for any fish that converts wet BG at 10 to 1.

Attached Files
FEED SCHEDULE 3% SFR.xlsx (19.79 KB, 6 downloads)
SHA1: c95559cbdb152ff70fa64ca99480f33fa5675703
Last edited by jpsdad; 07/15/21 08:30 AM.

Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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