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Managing FHM's
#535261 05/17/21 06:03 AM
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Hi Folks,

I have a 1 acre pond ( old pond, new to me ). I'm watching it this first year prior to stocking. I thought it would be wise to move slowly for the long term project. I believe there to be very little cover in the pond with the exception of some cattails at the shallow end and perhaps a sungen log or two.

I also believe it to be fishless or nearly fishless. I've made several fishing attempts this spring with worms and have never had a nibble. I've also never seen one on the surface or swimming around.

Anyway, a month or so back I put in 5 lbs of FHM as a starter. I have some pallets ( 4 ) to stack in there and was wondering if there is any other advise for kick starting the forage base.

Do I need to feed them or will they find enough on their own?

Thanks

Re: Managing FHM's
LarryBud #535262 05/17/21 06:14 AM
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In an old 1 acre pond with no fish, the Fatheads have plenty to eat.

In an old 1 acre pond with fish you haven't found about about yet, the Fatheads are lunch.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Re: Managing FHM's
LarryBud #535265 05/17/21 06:59 AM
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I suggest adding more pallets. I can't say how many would be ideal, but I put 7 stacks (of 3 or 4 each) in my 1/4 acre pond and that was certainly enough for the first year with only FHM's in the pond. Source some more pallets or at least spread the 4 you have out as single pallets held up off the bottom with cinder blocks. A tip to stacking the pallets is to put some bricks in between each pallet in the stack to create an additional layer of wood to utilize.

I'm going to guess that an egg laying FHM would like to have at least 20 square inches to "do their thing", so I doubt you can have too many structures, but you can have too little.


Fish on!,
Noel
Re: Managing FHM's
Theo Gallus #535266 05/17/21 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
In an old 1 acre pond with no fish, the Fatheads have plenty to eat.

In an old 1 acre pond with fish you haven't found about about yet, the Fatheads are lunch.

I'd sure think I'd get a nibble on nice angle worm with all my attempts but who knows. I have no experience here.

Let's hope they aren't all lunch. I haven't spent much time looking for FHMs. It's been really rainy this month. Either way I'm only in it for the cost of 5 lbs of FHM and some time.

Re: Managing FHM's
Quarter Acre #535267 05/17/21 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Quarter Acre
I suggest adding more pallets. I can't say how many would be ideal, but I put 7 stacks (of 3 or 4 each) in my 1/4 acre pond and that was certainly enough for the first year with only FHM's in the pond. Source some more pallets or at least spread the 4 you have out as single pallets held up off the bottom with cinder blocks. A tip to stacking the pallets is to put some bricks in between each pallet in the stack to create an additional layer of wood to utilize.

I'm going to guess that an egg laying FHM would like to have at least 20 square inches to "do their thing", so I doubt you can have too many structures, but you can have too little.

I know more is better. I just need to find the time to get the job done as procurement of pallets, stone and then placement is not an easy task. It's me as one old man and the watchful eye and helpful comments from the Mrs. ( eyes rolling ).

I need some labor!! Dang kids moved off.

Re: Managing FHM's
LarryBud #535273 05/17/21 10:32 AM
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This is how I use pallets for fhm breeding and protection. The pallets float, so there's always options at any depth. Some members have had good luck with 12'X12' wooden squares for spawning habitat, and if you go that way, those squares would be easy to add to the pallet stack. The pallets slide up and down the pipe, and I screw them together at 45's, so there's always cover of some type.

The water level has been dropped for seining in this pic, so it clearly shows the stack on the right. Hope this helps.

[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

Last edited by FireIsHot; 05/17/21 10:33 AM.

AL
Re: Managing FHM's
FireIsHot #535276 05/17/21 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by FireIsHot
This is how I use pallets for fhm breeding and protection. The pallets float, so there's always options at any depth. Some members have had good luck with 12'X12' wooden squares for spawning habitat, and if you go that way, those squares would be easy to add to the pallet stack. The pallets slide up and down the pipe, and I screw them together at 45's, so there's always cover of some type.

The water level has been dropped for seining in this pic, so it clearly shows the stack on the right. Hope this helps.

[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

I do expect a fluctuation in water levels. So if I hammer in a fencepost, Loop a pallet over the top and let it float, the FHMs would find this acceptable? I like this idea vs submerging a stationary fortress.

Re: Managing FHM's
LarryBud #535278 05/17/21 12:13 PM
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You'll get 10X production in a new pond by stapling cedar boards to #9 wire and place across corners of open water.
Check lower right corner of pic.. didn't see it when I took pic.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Snipe; 05/17/21 12:14 PM.
Re: Managing FHM's
Snipe #535280 05/17/21 12:20 PM
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The water in your pods is looking good Snipe. Is the plan set for this year?


Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Re: Managing FHM's
LarryBud #535281 05/17/21 12:25 PM
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It changes daily..:-))
FHM, BNM are in this pond. Farthest has YP and BCP. To the right out of pic is roaming spawning BG and RES and my pens for feed training.
Plan "A" is SMB pens in FHM pond when the time comes.

Re: Managing FHM's
LarryBud #535283 05/17/21 12:59 PM
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Thanks for another option.

Is that a rattler going in for swim? Yikes.

Re: Managing FHM's
LarryBud #535286 05/17/21 01:30 PM
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Just a big ole bullsnake.

Last edited by Snipe; 05/17/21 01:30 PM.
Re: Managing FHM's
Snipe #535301 05/17/21 07:33 PM
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So I went with a combo approach. I used my pallets ( I need some more ) and strung them on a poly rope between two fencepost.

I think this will be a good option which will adjust with the water level.

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Re: Managing FHM's
LarryBud #535302 05/17/21 08:26 PM
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Larry, that is a good start, but the pallets in my pond ended up waterlogging after a few weeks and sinking. If you don't mind that whole string on the bottom then it should be good, but it won't go up and down with the water level anymore. Unless there is enough tension and power on those posts and rope to hold them up in the air then you should be all set.

Since my banks are pretty gradual on the down slope, I have the nearest to shore side of the pallet on the ground and the furthest from shore edge up on an old tire. I drilled holes in the tire to keep it on the bottom and used wire to wire the tire to the edge of the pallet. One pallet has a whole tire supporting the far end (got sick of the the work of cutting the tires by hand), the others I cut tires in half and used a half a tire with most of the tire out in front of the pallet and the two cut edges under the pallet to hold it.

My thought with the tire was that these tires had a little tread left on them and was hoping the spotfins would use the crevices on the tire treads to put their eggs in. Looking for other ways to encourage Spotfin spawn. I have adults left but very few smaller shiners as I think my adult perch population is really putting a hurt on them.

I can't keep FHM alive long enough to reproduce with so many predators so the pallets are more for protection and shade for other critters than for spawning habitat for FHM

Larry if your system stays on top of the water then that indeed is a good way to go

Re: Managing FHM's
canyoncreek #535453 05/21/21 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by canyoncreek
Larry, that is a good start, but the pallets in my pond ended up waterlogging after a few weeks and sinking. If you don't mind that whole string on the bottom then it should be good, but it won't go up and down with the water level anymore. Unless there is enough tension and power on those posts and rope to hold them up in the air then you should be all set.

Since my banks are pretty gradual on the down slope, I have the nearest to shore side of the pallet on the ground and the furthest from shore edge up on an old tire. I drilled holes in the tire to keep it on the bottom and used wire to wire the tire to the edge of the pallet. One pallet has a whole tire supporting the far end (got sick of the the work of cutting the tires by hand), the others I cut tires in half and used a half a tire with most of the tire out in front of the pallet and the two cut edges under the pallet to hold it.

My thought with the tire was that these tires had a little tread left on them and was hoping the spotfins would use the crevices on the tire treads to put their eggs in. Looking for other ways to encourage Spotfin spawn. I have adults left but very few smaller shiners as I think my adult perch population is really putting a hurt on them.

I can't keep FHM alive long enough to reproduce with so many predators so the pallets are more for protection and shade for other critters than for spawning habitat for FHM

Larry if your system stays on top of the water then that indeed is a good way to go


Great Feedback and Ideas. I'm a beginner here. I don't mind if the pallets sink but I don't like the idea or too much junk in the pond. I should be able to drag them out with the rope as needed. I need to find a good balance of cover for baitfish and target fish.

Re: Managing FHM's
LarryBud #535465 05/21/21 09:56 AM
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Here ya go Larry. I wish I knew how to turn them.
[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]
[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]
[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]


The people who say I can't do it can just sit the @^#% down and watch me. Friends call me Rusto I also subscribe to pond boss mag. http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504716#Post504716
Re: Managing FHM's
RStringer #535466 05/21/21 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RStringer
Here ya go Larry. I wish I knew how to turn them.

I finally figured out that, at least with my Galaxy S9, that the best way to deal with sideways pics is to turn them while they're still on the phone,
and then upload them to my image hosting site. If I do that they come out right every time. When I would use the photo editing tools in Windows
to flip them on the computer, they would still come out sideways on the board even though they were right in Windows. It's possible to flip them after
uploading to PhotoBucket, but the editing tool there is a pita to use.

Re: Managing FHM's
LarryBud #535493 05/21/21 09:33 PM
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If you feed the FHM ground or crushed pellets there will be less stunting and better body condition of YOY fish at the end of spawning season.
Feeding I think results in more minnows at the end of the year. I think feeding FHM prespawn results in larger spawns. If feeding sport fish produces more and better panfish and predators why would this not also apply to growing minnows. Fertilizing the water or having adequate alkalinity and fertile water creates blooms that are a form of feeding which also increases minnow production which is probably how the minnow farms grow their crops.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 05/21/21 09:38 PM.

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Re: Managing FHM's
LarryBud #535496 05/22/21 06:56 AM
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Are the sinking pallets a problem if used in shallow water? Will the minnows still use them? I recently stocked some fatheads. I tossed some large dead limbs in shallow water. Some floated and some sunk.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Managing FHM's
Augie #535498 05/22/21 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by RStringer
Here ya go Larry. I wish I knew how to turn them.
I was going to say "Pull them out of the pond, flip them over, and put them back in." laugh


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i582.photobucket.com]
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Re: Managing FHM's
LarryBud #535516 05/23/21 06:47 AM
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I like the stacked pallet idea. Thinking ill do this in a pyramid shape so part can be above water & safe haven for some ducks. I *need* ducks for tick control.

The FHM population will naturally help with skeeter control too..


1.25 Acre Pond 8 Feet Deep

Some Koi & Large Mouth Bass
Re: Managing FHM's
Dave Davidson1 #535554 05/24/21 10:32 AM
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I have just put some stacked pallets in 2-3 foot of water and I am planning to put some in 4-5 foot of water in the event that water level drops or the fish have somewhere to go in the winter.


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