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#535251 05/16/21 06:50 PM
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Hi All,

New to the forum, but have been lurking as I'm figuring out my pond. I'm in California and currently working on an approximately 1 acre pond. I was planning to stock it with bluegill, redear, LMB and channel cats. Pond will be for swimming, eating out of, and some water used for a small amount of livestock. While looking at some of the fisheries around me I noticed they sell sacramento perch, which I've never heard of despite growing up in Sac. Seems like it'd be a good eating fish and it grows much larger than the bluegill or red ear. I can't find much info as far as their behavior and niche in ponds, though. I'm leaning towards stocking them early with the forage fish, but hoping someone might have some experience with them.

Thanks!
Dylan

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California's only native centrarchid. Its an interesting fish that would probably do well in ponds. BG probably aren't a good fit with them though. They remind me a lot of Warmouth but get much larger. Hope you make a place for some. Will be interesting to follow.


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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I read they are also called the tiger crappie. Females spawn with multiple males, producing a total of about 8,400-125,000 eggs. They spawn all summer long like a BG. I would give the forage at least a full summer to spawn then stock the SCP, LMB and CC. Someone said they get bigger than crappie and are the best tasting panfish. Sounds like a great fish to me. Good luck with your pond!

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They are commonly used in aquaponics in California. Here is an interesting paper on them:

https://escholarship.org/content/qt8st5g6df/qt8st5g6df.pdf?t=q5auch

Here is another:

https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=104369&inline

Last edited by jpsdad; 05/16/21 10:30 PM.

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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Great information jpsdad! I had never heard of this species of fish. In the articles that you referenced one point stood out to me. “Effects of Alien Species
Hypothesis 9: Sacramento perch are limited by interactions with alien (non-native) centrarchids. The gradual disappearance of Sacramento perch populations when forced to co-exist with bluegill, crappie, and other sunfishes indicates that interactions are
a major cause of decline. Because adults and large juveniles of these species seem to co-exist, most interaction is likely to occur during early life history stages.”
Do you think that the SCP can be a replacement for BG in waters native to its range? The information that you provided seems to suggest no BG, BCP or other sunfish for that matter. Using LMB and/or HSB as a predator possibly? Interesting uncommon fish!

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Heppy,

The sacramento perch was once abundant. It is endangered largely in response to non-native introductions of which non-native centrarchids are thought to be the most troublesome. It was once commercially fished and example of fish > 6 lbs are documented.

Yes, I think they can be a replacement for BG in California particularly. It's an odd situation for me to think about because I really do not understand what predators it evolved with. I think it would benefit from a predator helping it attain larger sizes but it may not be necessary to raise harvestable fish. IOW they might cannabilize well enough to do well under an annual harvest regime (like SMB). I think I would need a sense of the standing weights this species can achieve to recommend an appropriate goal for the standing weight of predators. But I think ideal would be less than 45 lbs per acre of LMB and I think, like BCP, bigger bass would be better. I like female LMB on a ladder with them. Shouldn't take many, maybe an initial stocking of 10/acre with a 2/acre/year ladder in the 12" lengths. Under the scenario ... LMB are a bonus fish that are catch and release ... I think this might support a 40 lb/acre year harvest (possibly more) of the perch.


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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Thanks for answering, Heppy and jpsdad!

Awesome info, thanks for tracking down those papers. With some more research definitely looks like I’ll have to forego the BG and Redear for the sac perch, which I’m totally okay with. Would CC provide enough predation once a few get big to keep their numbers in check? My only concern with LMB would be that they might overrun the perch, since they aren’t as prolific as BG. Maybe I could add gold shiners or another non panfish forage fish to help distribute the pressure.

Definitely leaning towards doing whatever is needed to stock the sac perch, seems like a cool option.

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Dylan, I think you are on the right track with your thoughts. Just reading a bit more I found 1 reference indicating that the Sacrameno Perch was the dominant Picsivore in its native range. So this fish could probably be stocked alone but would greatly benefit from having a smaller highly reproductive prey species stocked along with it. Ideal would be a native fish which is appropriate for small still waters. But if Gambusia Affinis are already established in your watershed and use of this fish is not prohibited in your state or area for pond stocking, they can and will substantially increase forage for the Perch. The Golden shiner are probably to competitive to be ideal.

I don't think the predator is absolutely necessary but CC might be a good match. CC need to be in the >20" lengths to provide meaningful predation. They will help to limit perch reproduction too. I've watched big CC muscle into BG beds (tail up) and presumably inhale the eggs and yolk fry. Given the perch are popular for aquaponics ... I don't see this as a problem because you would have access to additional stock if you needed to ladder the perch. These fish obviously can be fed artificial diets ... otherwise they would not be popular for aquaponics so recruits could be fed up to releasable sizes if they do not reproduce well with the combination.

From research thus far, it seems these fish, similar to crappie, need a minimum of two or three years of age to reproduce. So your plan might be to delay stocking the predator until the third year. By this time, you could easily have raised perch to > than 10". I would personally try to work with a reasonable estimate of natural production. So possibly 150 to 200 lbs of perch as a goal for standing weight. So an initial stocking rate of 200 to 300 per acre along with minnow species. May be a benefit to let the minnows have a head start. If you can buy advance sizes (4" to 6" fingerlings) I would stock the advanced sizes in a two year ladder at half that rate each year. I think 15 20" CC to the acre may be ideal. They would reach this size by the third year when the predation is needed. It is very doubtful CC could recruit (a good thing) under the scenario. I think a good approach for the CC is to use them as a bonus fish catch and release using only artificial lures to catch (like flies ... yes I catch 4 to 6 large CC annually fishing for BG with flies). Ladder in CC as they are harvested in sizes > 12" and try to keep the weight of CC < 60 lbs/acre. I think this kind of plan would work and would be an enjoyable fishery.


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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This may be way out there ... but I wonder if RES might work with Sacramento Perch (SP). They are not as prolific as BG and might be controlled well enough by >8" SP to grow to harvestable sizes at 2 to 3 years of age. They would reduce the potential standing weights of SP I think but snail control would be a plus and the additional utilization of pond resources could mean a higher total standing weight of fish. The combination would probably also adversely affect SP recruitment but this may be good for growth of the SP. If SP recruitment failed, ladder stocking of SP (like folks do with HSB) may provide a way to counteract SP recruitment failure. Of course every species you might add will add additional complexity to the interactions ... the simpler you keep it ... perhaps the easier it will be manage. At this point, everything feels very experimental.


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers



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