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Chara or Widgeongrass?
#533919 04/14/21 10:20 PM
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So I owned this pond two years ago. Small pond with a surprising number of ducks eating this stuff. Growing in about 3ft of water. I dont remember a smell but didnt really sniff it. Unfortunately it dried up so I cant go back and find out for sure. I'd like to ID it and try to get it established in another nearby pond. Thanks!

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by toledo; 04/14/21 10:20 PM.
Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #533920 04/14/21 11:12 PM
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I used to fish a pond that had lots of chara. LMB liked it. Every time I brought in some chara, either on a bass or tangled on my lure, the smell was distinctive. Also, it grew deeper than 3 feet, down to at least twice that in places.

Obviously this is just my amateur personal experience. Maybe a real expert will come along soon to set things straight!

Last edited by anthropic; 04/14/21 11:48 PM.

8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17,L, 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 25 HSB & 250 F1 9/20,L,180# RBT 12/20, 206, 100#TP 5/21, 164



Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #533921 04/15/21 06:04 AM
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It really doesn't look like chara to me and I doubt that it is widgeon grass. I think your old pond had Southern Naid. That stuff grows a lot deeper than 3 feet and can fill a small pond. One pond I fish had chara ... but now this stuff has taken it over. I infer it will outcompete chara from that experience. Like anthropic said, you don't have to have your nose next to it to smell it. If it was out of the water, you would have probably got a whiff. Like anything, a little is good for ducks and fish alike ... but ... too much is bad for growing large fish and there is risk when there is a high standing weight of this weed to have a fish kill. The ducks will bring it in to Texas ponds. I would not hurry things along that path.

Last edited by jpsdad; 04/15/21 08:11 AM.

Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
jpsdad #533926 04/15/21 09:05 AM
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I did have chara at my place about 3 years ago, the smell was unmistakable. Unfortunately, it soon was overtaken by Southern Naiad, which I had treated last year. Some is good, but it spreads fast.


8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17,L, 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 25 HSB & 250 F1 9/20,L,180# RBT 12/20, 206, 100#TP 5/21, 164



Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #533929 04/15/21 10:18 AM
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Thanks. This is going to be for some shallow waterfowl ponds. About an acre of 1ft deep and an acre 2-3ft deep. No fish. I also have a well to maintain year round level. Located in Texas.

With that said, which one would be the most preferred food for gadwalls? Also available for purchase and easy to get established?

Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #533932 04/15/21 11:47 AM
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Both Chara and Southern Naiad are used by Ducks (as is widgeongrass). I don't know which may be better for Gadwalls but I think at your location it might be easier to establish Naiad. Naiad is much more flexible than Chara in terms of water chemistry. Given this, Naiad will probably produce a greater quantity of food for ducks ... but it may not necessarily be more preferred by ducks or the particular species that you trying to attract.

I would just mention that without fish, it may turn out that crayfish will get established in high density and prevent a good stand from developing.

Bump*****

Call these guys. They sell widgeon grass and might be able to tell you the difference between the plants in terms of attractiveness to ducks and ease of establishment and other requirements.

Last edited by jpsdad; 04/15/21 11:57 AM.

Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #533943 04/15/21 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by toledo
Thanks. This is going to be for some shallow waterfowl ponds. About an acre of 1ft deep and an acre 2-3ft deep. No fish. I also have a well to maintain year round level. Located in Texas.

With that said, which one would be the most preferred food for gadwalls? Also available for purchase and easy to get established?

Wood ducks seem to like my Naiad, if that is any indication. I rarely see other ducks.


8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17,L, 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 25 HSB & 250 F1 9/20,L,180# RBT 12/20, 206, 100#TP 5/21, 164



Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #533944 04/15/21 06:36 PM
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Looks very much like widgeon grass to me.. It segments a bit different than it's closest relative, Sago pond weed. They are both very similar in appearance.

Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #533949 04/16/21 06:05 AM
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It looks like southern naiad to me also. It is a very aggressive plant and ducks do like it at my pond but me not so much. I just added Sonar to remove it from the pond. For whatever reason, that plant has been seen a lot in the past two years here in Texas ponds.


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #533960 04/16/21 10:11 AM
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So it looks like there's a consensus. Anywhere to get the naiad? How would it be planted?

Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #533968 04/16/21 11:03 AM
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Toledo,

This weed amazed me by how fast is took over the ponds what once had chara. It was like one year there was chara. And then one or two years later there was no chara and tons of the naiad filling the pond and clogging up the surface. So I don't think it would take much if the conditions are right for establishment. I don't know where to buy it but I can guarantee some public ponds that are near you have it. Its growing now and already a nuisance in the pond I mentioned so I am sure you could find it this weekend nearby.

As for how to get it established, just move some being careful to select just the plant you want. You don't have to plant it or anything. It can grow even detached from soil. Where it contacts soil it will root and form tubers. Do not use water from the impoundment to transport it. Bring your own water. To be sure you don't transport critters, you may try dipping in a salt bath agitating it to remove them. Do it long enough to dislodge them but no so much as to kill your weed.

There is a critter you want in your duck pond. Hyallela Azteca. You can buy them from https://goliadfarms.com/shop/gammarus-scuds/

Last edited by jpsdad; 04/16/21 11:09 AM.

Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #534027 04/17/21 11:32 PM
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Guys, I've been studying these 4 plants listed above and Southern Naiad has several unfolded, flat leaf structures between the main stems or "spines".. I don't see that in the pic and it has all the characteristics of widgeon grass and still similar to sago in structure. I strongly believe it is widgeon grass. Can you specify what it is that you see that leads you to believe it's bushy pondweed?

Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #534028 04/17/21 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by toledo
Thanks. This is going to be for some shallow waterfowl ponds. About an acre of 1ft deep and an acre 2-3ft deep. No fish. I also have a well to maintain year round level. Located in Texas.

With that said, which one would be the most preferred food for gadwalls? Also available for purchase and easy to get established?

If you do have a problem with excess crawfish depredation, you could look in to catching & eating or selling them.


8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17,L, 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 25 HSB & 250 F1 9/20,L,180# RBT 12/20, 206, 100#TP 5/21, 164



Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #534037 04/18/21 06:44 AM
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snipe, the picture posted is not the greatest when I try to identify but the pic does look like bushy Pondweed to me. Believe me, I know that veggie because it took over my 3-acre pond really fast. It got so bad that I knew I had a fish kill coming and after a few cloudy, rainy days it did. Killed off all my HSB and most of my Lmb along with a few trophy CNBG. I also agree that BPW does look a lot like Wigeon Grass. One of the reasons I lean toward BPW is that when I spoke to Bob Lusk he told me there were a lot of ponds in Texas last year where BPW showed up. And toledo is at College Station almost considered in E. Texas where there are a lot of ponds and the plant popped its head up as Bob said in the last two years.

Last edited by TGW1; 04/18/21 06:46 AM.

Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
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Re: Chara or Widgeongrass?
toledo #534047 04/18/21 07:31 AM
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The only ID I ruled out was chara. Widgeongrass and Southern Naiad do look very similar and can be confused. Like Tracy, I didn't think the picture provided enough detail to distinguish between them. Naiad seemed most likely given his location.


Common sense is not so common - Voltaire

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers



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