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Core
#533855 04/13/21 11:38 AM
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Had core problem

Last edited by G_Stan2000@yahoo; 04/15/21 07:37 PM.
Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #533858 04/13/21 01:37 PM
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Welcome to PB!

I can see your concern. A full foot seems like a lot. I'm far away from being an expert on pond building (or even dirt for that matter), but have to ask...Do you think it was clay that settled or could it be a fair amount of top soil only?

If it was clay, that area did not get compacted properly, or at all. My old pond had its dam breeched so that it could be drained and renovated. No sheep's foot compaction when the 10 foot wide crevice was refilled at my pond; only bucket tamping the layers and the tracks as it laid the layers down. It did not settle any visible amount and it's been 4 years.

It's hard to say if you will have a problem. What does your contractor say about the settling?


Fish on!,
Noel
Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #533859 04/13/21 02:01 PM
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How was the core compacted and in what thickness lifts?

Core
Quarter Acre #533864 04/13/21 04:05 PM
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Core

Last edited by G_Stan2000@yahoo; 04/15/21 07:39 PM.
Re: Clay core sunk
RAH #533865 04/13/21 04:06 PM
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A sheepsfoot was used and I do not know what "Thickness lifts" mean

Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #533866 04/13/21 04:10 PM
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Sorry just looked thickness lift up, the clay was continually compacted as soon as it was dumped and dozer leveled out.

Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #533878 04/13/21 11:09 PM
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Just running a sheepsfoot roller over the clay once or twice won't compact it, it has to be run over the clay enough times so it starts to "walk up and out" of the clay.

Say a layer of clay was put down. The feet on the sheepsfoot roller sink down until the barrel of the roller is on the surface. It has to be drug back and forth until the roller is no longer touching the surface of the soil.

For an unbiased opinion that won't cost you anything, call the local NRCS office and see if they can send someone out. Ask them if they can determine if the dam core is compacted properly.

Address: 2040 Riverfork Dr, Huntington, IN 46750
Hours: Opens 8AM
Phone: (260) 356-6816


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Re: Clay core sunk
esshup #533906 04/14/21 03:31 PM
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Thank You!!!
I called this morning and they will have one of their Engineers come out and look at it. Will let you know what they say.

Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #533910 04/14/21 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by G_Stan2000@yahoo
Thank You!!!
I called this morning and they will have one of their Engineers come out and look at it. Will let you know what they say.

Great!!!


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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Re: Clay core sunk
esshup #533930 04/15/21 10:35 AM
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Well - not so great - I called again and was told they do not help with Ponds. So I now left a message for the DNR to call me. Lets see if they can help.

Last edited by G_Stan2000@yahoo; 04/15/21 07:37 PM.
Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #533947 04/15/21 09:55 PM
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NRCS DOES help with ponds, you may need to physically visit the office and speak to the head honcho. DNR won't help at all.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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Re: Clay core sunk
esshup #533954 04/16/21 08:14 AM
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Well - Allen County does not - I even called the state NCRS office and they called Allen County Office and talked to them with the same response.

For an additional note - the contractor came out last night and we were able to sick a 4' rod into one of the sink hole cracks, I could see on his face we have a large problem as the core is cracked in that one spot. So with that large crack where is the water going. It is forecasted to rain this weekend so we agreed to come out and see if there is any clue how bad the situating is! (Where the water is going) otherwise he will have to excavate and find the channel (Tube).

I will also say I have a good contractor just a messed up situation

Now for the laugh - I was talking with one of the state engineers and during the call he stated he wish he new more about septic's. So I spent a 1/2 hour explaining Aerobic and Anaerobic systems and how to revitalize a degrading system. But at some point you will need to declare it is dead.

Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #533978 04/16/21 02:21 PM
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There are a lot of old flood control "watershed lakes" that were installed by the Corps of Engineers in my state. I saw guys up surveying one time when I was out fishing and stopped to chat with them. They said a benchmark was installed on the top of every one of those dams. They drive out every X years to inspect the dams and shoot the level of the bench marks. (I think "X" was 5 years.)

He said if the benchmark has not moved they just move on to the next dam. If the benchmark has moved they do a more thorough visual inspection. He said that in his experience, when the benchmark is going down, they always find a problem.

Your contractor may have messed up on something. On the other hand, he may have done everything exactly right and it still didn't work out properly. Soils can be highly variable beasts.

Mike Otto (one of our dam building experts) has stories in his book of doing everything right but some quirk of the earth caused a dam failure.

Good luck on your project!

Re: Clay core sunk
FishinRod #533982 04/16/21 04:00 PM
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Thanks - I really do not believe and am not saying my contractor done anything wrong, they have been great to work with but I am not a dirt boy. Contractor will fix but I know these services like NCRS has information and expertise that could be helpful plus I would just like to know what happened so we can repair without a lot of more excavation that again may disturb the core.

And yes - I was ME (EE, ENV) until this Parkinson's sidelined me and there were projects that just never seemed to go right also.

Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #533986 04/16/21 06:20 PM
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Otto,Lusk, me, and a couple of other guys were talking. Somebody mentioned a leaky pond and the reasons for leaks. Mikey said “If you want a pond to leak, just let me build it”. Even the best can have things go wrong.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Clay core sunk
Dave Davidson1 #533990 04/16/21 07:54 PM
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If you have never made a mistake - you do not do anything

1 member likes this: Pat Williamson
Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #533995 04/16/21 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by G_Stan2000@yahoo
If you have never made a mistake - you do not do anything

The most successful people I know have literally made the most mistakes in their lives - because they are always trying new things in an attempt to improve some process or product.

I have immense respect for these people. It is also why I like going on Pond Boss, there are so many people here that are tinkering to make things better! They tell us what went right, but more importantly - what went wrong.

Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #533998 04/17/21 04:39 AM
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Unfortunately the NRCS offices here in Indiana seem to be very hit or miss as to the work they do and the knowledge that the people in the office have. Also, unfortunately the offices cannot cross county lines to work in a different county. The office in my county is like yours, not any help at all. The office 2 counties over is just the opposite. the people there know their stuff, and they have equipment to take deep core samples, etc., etc.

I hope that you get it resolved quickly!!


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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Re: Clay core sunk
esshup #534208 04/21/21 11:58 AM
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Took me long enough to figure out how to shrink the picture, here it is.

Also my contractor and I agreed to wait until the next good rain to see if we can find where the water is going.

Attached Files
pond - Copy.jpg (108.08 KB, 157 downloads)
Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #534216 04/21/21 03:00 PM
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[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]


The people who say I can't do it can just sit the @^#% down and watch me. Friends call me Rusto I also subscribe to pond boss mag. http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504716#Post504716
Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #534221 04/21/21 04:07 PM
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Welcome - if you have any thoughts would be great - beats us what is happening. The core was great, compaction was great, it has to be an anomaly underground or there is an Alien screwing with us.

The long sinkage was first, the in the back of the picture you can see the second sinkage, now there this a third area starting to happen right in front of the original sinkage. Well if nothing else I had a lot of clay to get rid of

Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #534229 04/21/21 06:29 PM
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It looks like the clay core is settling. To me that means not enough compaction of that area. Whether the lifts were too thick to properly compact, or there was too much or not enough moisture in it to properly compact it I don't know. If I am wrong, then I have no idea what is going on.


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Re: Clay core sunk
esshup #534231 04/21/21 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by esshup
It looks like the clay core is settling. To me that means not enough compaction of that area. Whether the lifts were too thick to properly compact, or there was too much or not enough moisture in it to properly compact it I don't know. If I am wrong, then I have no idea what is going on.

When we put our dam in over 20 years ago, my wife, me, and our evil spawn were walking down the new dam, and when we looked back, he was gone. He fell into a a Volkswagen sized hole on the top of the dam. The builder showed up the next day and tore out that whole section, layered and repacked it, and we haven't had a problem since.


AL
Re: Clay core sunk
esshup #534236 04/21/21 07:04 PM
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Thanks - since there are no visible leaks and this is on the shallow side of the pond do we need to excavate and repack?

* this section was not cored until November in Northern Indiana

Also the pond is not full yet, so I am skeptical if we may/may not have a leak? I am still on the side of wait and see for now.

Re: Clay core sunk
G_Stan2000@yahoo #534237 04/21/21 07:40 PM
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Pack it as best you can, and see how things go. It seems like your contractor is trying to help, so working with him or her seems like a reasonable way to proceed.

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