Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
PeasterSteve, NickHeinen, Alan Coleman, Boymomma, Wallen
17149 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics38,691
Posts525,910
Members17,149
Most Online3,583
Jan 15th, 2020
Top Posters
esshup 25,178
ewest 20,522
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 13,705
Who's Online Now
5 members (anthropic, esshup, Pat Williamson, Bobbss, Big H), 257 guests, and 317 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
#533282 04/01/21 09:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
I need your opinions. I attached 2 pictures of my new pond that was built in January. We have had some real good rains near St Louis MO and the pond level raised and lowered several times. The pictures attached are showing where it sat for a long period and where it got to after we got some flooding rains. However 4 days later it was back down to the lower level. Should I assume its leaking or the ground is saturating? Only reason I am saying saturating is because I was told that by a few pond builders in the area. I am planning on driving 5 hours this weekend to pick up 3-3000lb bags of bentonite because the price is really good on it.

Attached Files
pond 2.jpg (117.42 KB, 65 downloads)
pond.jpg (134.52 KB, 61 downloads)
Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533285 04/01/21 09:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,046
Likes: 35
Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,046
Likes: 35
Welcome from another Missourian, Best I can tell form your photos...you lost about a foot of water to "saturation"? That sure seems like a lot to me. My small quarter acre pond took months to fill and never dropped more than a few inches between rains. I would not expect saturation to take the water level back down to a previous level either...if that is your case.


Fish on!,
Noel
Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
Quarter Acre #533286 04/01/21 09:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
That is what I was thinking I am just hoping that with 9,000 pounds of bentonite I can make a difference. Just don't want to waste time and money

Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533291 04/01/21 09:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 633
Likes: 62
A
Offline
A
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 633
Likes: 62
Post-renovation my pond did sort of that thing. Rain, rise, drop a foot, hold there. Rinse and repeat until it was full up.

How far does yours drop after a rain, and does it drop to the same level every time, or is it incrementally rising with each up/down cycle?

If it's consistently dropping to the same elevation you have a leak.

Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533292 04/01/21 10:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 806
Likes: 22
B
Online Content
B
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 806
Likes: 22
Welcome to the forum from another St. Louis area pond owner. Sorry you didn't join for better reasons.

Sounds you might be one of the luckier ones in the area that gets more rain. It seems to miss me a lot. I've only had I think 2 rain events that helped much but my water shed is a little small.

I feel your pain. My pond has not held water the best but is slowly getting better. I won't get into all the factors of my problem but I would say my main one is compaction.

I would give the pros here all the info you can about your pond and construction of it. How big and deep, what equipment was used, core trench etc.

One of the first things I was told to do is put in a measuring stake to monitor daily loss and see if it is improving.


Bob


I Subscribe To Pond Boss
Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533332 04/02/21 01:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,538
Likes: 13
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,538
Likes: 13
Hello Jkross and welcome to the forum.

I've helped hundreds of guys on the forum with leaking ponds, and have sealed 7 of own, happy to help if possible.

Some wicking is natural for a new pond, but that would likely not be responsible for 12" loss. Measure your vertical water loss daily with a stake - this is critical data to establish.

Bentonite, in my experience and the pond builders I know, will not seal a hydrated pond. They use bentonite during the construction of liner phase. Sealing hydrated ponds can be achieved in other ways, however.

If you would like to chat I'm happy to spend some time learning about your pond and possible leak issue. My time is free to my Pond Boss family. Feel free to reach out anytime:

tj@hudlandmgmt.com

402.730.4897


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533353 04/02/21 06:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 5
J
Offline
J
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 5
I would not waste time and money on Bentonite for a pond that has water in it. It likely will not do any good.

Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533354 04/02/21 06:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
So if I pump the pond out would it then be a good idea to line the bottom with bentonite?

Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533365 04/03/21 09:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 332
Likes: 16
G
Offline
G
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 332
Likes: 16
Im a long ways from being a professional but have sealed a few lagoons and ponds up with bentonite and have had way better luck with incorporating it into the soil at least a ft or more deep into the clay, I actually sealed off almost clean sand up that way by mixing a generous amount of it with the sand for about 18" deep, but then that was in a sewage lagoon which only had about a 3 1/2' working depth, not near as much pressure.


All the really good ideas I've ever had came to me while I was milking a cow.
Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533371 04/03/21 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 25,178
Likes: 87
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 25,178
Likes: 87
Originally Posted by jkross636
So if I pump the pond out would it then be a good idea to line the bottom with bentonite?


Only if you can get a rototiller in there after you spread it out over the pond bottom, and then a compactor to compact the soil.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
esshup #533375 04/03/21 04:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
Do you think a heavy tire bobcat will compact enough?

Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533378 04/03/21 08:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,705
Likes: 46
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,705
Likes: 46
Question, ""Do you think a heavy tire bobcat will compact enough?"" Probably not. It all depends on clay quality and weight of the bobcat. I assume that the clay quality is not all that good which is why you are using bentonite. It would be better to have very narrow tires than wide tires on a bobcat. A bicycle driven on 4" of soil over an egg will bust the egg whereas a bulldoser on that 4" of soil will not break the egg. Narrow compacts much better than wide tires that spread out the weight for compaction over a wide surface and that is not what you want. Your money is best spent on renting a sheepsfoot roller that is especially designed, built and used to compact soil. Don't go through all this effort and expense to not have the soil compacted as best as possible. The sheepsfoot roller will be a small amount of money as a form of insurance. then if that does not work then you know you did the very best for that attempt. Shop around you might be able to rent a idle sheepsfoot for very reasonable cost. It could 'probably' be pulled with a good quality bobcat.


Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533448 04/05/21 11:48 AM
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
So I have all the water pumped out.... the ground is wet but I can drive my machine on it. Can I put bentonite down on wet soil or do I need to wait for completely dry

Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533458 04/05/21 01:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 806
Likes: 22
B
Online Content
B
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 806
Likes: 22
Now that the pond is empty do you see any holes or other signs of where the water has been going?

I'm no pro but the way I understand it you need some dampness to get compaction but to wet and you can't compact it. I would think if the Bentonite gets to wet it will swell before you get it compacted. I would think that you want to get it compacted before it swells to much so it will seal better.


Bob


I Subscribe To Pond Boss
Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533516 04/06/21 01:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
Question while I am trying to prepare to bentonite the bottom I noticed as I am digging in certain concern areas I’m seeing a lot of black dirt under a layer of clay should this have been dug out?

Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533520 04/06/21 03:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 25,178
Likes: 87
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 25,178
Likes: 87
The clay, if used as a liner in the pond, should be 18"-24" thick.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533563 04/07/21 07:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 14,813
Likes: 30
D
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 14,813
Likes: 30
Many years ago I talked to the President/owner of Texas Sodium Bentonite. He said that it had to be tilled into the soil to be of any value.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533586 04/07/21 01:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
The operator who built the pond is going to come back out and dig out the black dirt until he gets to clay or rock and start packing in clay. Question is it safe to leave a hill side that the water will be up against untouched or should it be skimmed and packed with clay

Re: Opinions Needed Leaking or Saturating?
jkross636 #533595 04/07/21 03:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 806
Likes: 22
B
Online Content
B
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 806
Likes: 22
If you go by the book you need to line the whole bowl with 24" of clay, done in 6" lifts and compacted. I'm sure that is the best way, but I know it isn't always done that way.


Bob


I Subscribe To Pond Boss

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Mark Dumas
Recent Posts
Just a little watermeal?
by esshup - 04/12/21 11:55 PM
Sick Trout and Fish ID
by esshup - 04/12/21 11:51 PM
Talapia Stocking Temps
by esshup - 04/12/21 11:46 PM
Pond build in open field - questions
by esshup - 04/12/21 11:34 PM
New member with little tech savvy saying hello
by esshup - 04/12/21 11:31 PM
Night feeding for Trout & CNBG?
by anthropic - 04/12/21 10:01 PM
Deciphering a 20+ year old unmanaged pond
by jpsdad - 04/12/21 09:48 PM
What did you do at your pond today?
by anthropic - 04/12/21 09:33 PM
North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy Spring 2021
by anthropic - 04/12/21 09:04 PM
Pond Redo
by RStringer - 04/12/21 05:57 PM
Building a garage-apartment with a pond view
by Theo Gallus - 04/12/21 05:55 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Establishing new Maine pond.
Establishing new Maine pond.
by Mainahs70, April 5
Mongo's New Pond
Mongo's New Pond
by Mongos Pond, February 27
Ice Ice Baby
Ice Ice Baby
by highflyer, February 21
ID?
ID?
by Quixotic, February 7
pond gone
pond gone
by Stressless, January 31

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4