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To my knowledge Heppy does not at this point have any spotfins however he is intently trying to locate some natural spawning populations of satinfin or spotfin shiners to collect their eggs. Member 'canyoncreek' has spotfin shiners that he has posted information on the forum about his SFS. Maybe he will post a link to those discussions. A search of the forum would also give that information.

A good way to get some of these shiners in your area is to build spawning devices, deploy them in your local streams that are known to have members or species of the genus Cyprinella - crevice spawning shiners. Golden shiners(GSH) do not belong to the genus Cyprinella. Bring the devices to your pond and eggs will hatch providing the fry. This method will have best results if the eggs are hatched in a forage pond with no significant predators. Devices will collect and accumulate only shiner eggs from Cyprinella shiners unless the common carp happen to be spawning close to the devices and the eggs get sprayed where you have the devices and this would be extremely rare because carp rarely spawn in riffles and pools of streams where shiners spawn.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/19/20 09:16 AM.

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Thank you Bill, I will check it out.


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Quick update
Spawning devices have been deployed in a local river where Satinfin/spotfin shiners are known to exist. I’m later than I anticipated getting them out because of the abnormal amount of flooding that has occurred this year. In the meantime I have added large cedar tree limbs anchored with concrete blocks attached with nylon rope along the shoreline with more to come. Utv trails have been cut throughout the property for access. Next month my brother is closing on the adjoining 90 acre property with a 2 story 2000 square foot hunting lodge. This will be a lot more work cutting connecting trails, hanging tree stands and cameras. My oldest son has built trough feeders with tin roofs from plastic 55 gallon barrels cut lengthwise in half as well for the January - September timeframe legal in Virginia. Frost seeding the ladino clover in February has worked out really well. 2 additional ladder stands are on the way for a total of 6 and one box blind. The forage population is really taking off with many bullfrog and toad poles as well. I have not fished for the YP yet but have been feeding Optimal junior for 2 seconds at 7am and 1 second at 8pm. I’ve noticed some feeding but not what I would call a feeding frenzy yet. The picnic shelter (20x32) begins being built mid July and the enhanced rock spillway starts the first week in August. Thanks for following along.
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My youngest son and I put the homemade trash rack 55 gallon drum with the 7/8” holes over the UD Slide gate drain at the bottom of the pond. It was super cold at 10-11’ in the multiple spring fed pond. At some point this summer I will have to go back down and “stitch” it together with zip ties where I used the jigsaw to cut the top, one side with the 10” hole to go around the drain pipe itself and bottom together to snug it tight. The trick was to loop a piece of rope through 2 holes in the bottom of the drum tied to an old brake rotor outside the drum. After I had the trash rack in place, I went back down with a knife and cut the rope bringing the piece of rope and rotor out of the pond. I also had looped a length of rope through 2 holes in the top of the barrel that I used to position the pvc barrel and pulled through when we were finished with the job.
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I read that when stocking fish you need to temper them 20 minutes for each 10 degree of water temperature difference. I’m picking up half my order of 8 inch hsb (50) this afternoon along with 50 cc and 11 inch (8) triploid grass carp. The water temperature in the pond is 86 degrees. The 3 springs feeding the pond are 75 degrees. Fish truck hauling water is 70 degrees. The fish were pulled from an 80 degree hatchery pond Wednesday. I’m getting another 50 hsb and 250 (5 inch) black crappie when the fish truck returns at the beginning of November once the water has cooled. Are there any suggestions or recommendations to make todays stocking successful....
Thanks!
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Maybe too late to help you, but.....

Water temp in the ponds shouldn't be more than 5°F different and not more than 3°F different is ideal. You can't change water temp more than 10°F in 15 min, and then you have to wait 20-30 minutes before changing the temp any more.

When you are tempering the fish make sure you don't run them low on O2.


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Update:
Here’s what I did good bad or indifferent. 50 cc were bagged with O2 and floated in the shade for approximately thirty five minutes until the water temperature equalized. They were released by swimming out of the opened bag. I did notice one causality at the waters edge about 10 minutes later. The hsb were put in a 120 quart white igloo cooler with double bubbler stones drilled through the top. Water temperature began at 68 degrees and over the course of tempering for 60 minutes I raised the temperature to about 85 degrees. This was accomplished using a 32 Yeti cup of pond water every 2 minutes and draining the colder water from the drain plug periodically. I was given 55 hsb by the supplier to account for any mortality and all fish swam off from the cooler when tilted and submerged in the pond. It was 6:00 when the hsb swam off and by 8:00 a large number were observed in a feeding frenzy on the Optimal Junior in the 2.7 acre pond. I’m guessing over the next few days I will find out how successful I was stocking in 85 degree water. Fingers crossed!
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Esshup,
I saw your post right after I submitted my own. What results do you think I can expect after reading the above?
Thanks!
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It's a good sign that they were feeding. Time will tell. If the HSB were stressed in transport and crowded together, I've seen them look fine one day and 2 weeks later lots were dying because they had their slime coat scraped off and couldn't replace it fast enough. They fungused up and slowly died.

Time will tell. Optimal Fish Food has a micronutrient pack that helps fish get over periods of stress, so that is another plus for you.


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Thanks esshup! I did not know that about Optimal. I’ll give it a few weeks and post a report on how things are going.
Heppy

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Originally Posted by Heppy
Thanks esshup! I did not know that about Optimal. I’ll give it a few weeks and post a report on how things are going.
Heppy

A few years ago I was called to help a fish farmer deal with a low O2 event in his 35 ac lake where he grew HSB in cages. IIRC he did a feed test the previous few months with the HSB and I think he was trying 5 different mfg. of fish food, including Optimal. All the cages had 90+% mortality in them - we are talking cages that are 8' wide, 8' deep and 20' long, HSB were in the 1#-1.5# range and the surface of most of the cages were a solid mass of dead fish. Not a pretty sight especially after 2-3 days, you made sure that you were on the upwind side of the cage when you were scooping out the dead fish.

EXCEPT for the cages that he had fed the Optimal Fish Food. Only 10% mortality at the most..... I knew that the Optimal food was good because I had started using it in my pond and saw a reduction in the amount of FA in the pond but that really opened my eyes to just how good it was. The thing that really got me was that he had stopped the feed test more than 30 days prior and those fish STILL survived.


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Awesome information esshup thanks for sharing. I’m looking to order another bag or two of Optimal Junior to finish the year. In March I paid about $51 a bag. I just looked at the website and it is now $57 per bag. Do you or does anyone know if the cost of freight or ingredients caused the increased price? I left a voicemail with Dustin today to find out.
Thanks!
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As far as I can tell only 4 of the hsb that have been floating at this point in time. The water temperature was 86 degrees at the time of stocking. After reading through numerous threads I believe that I will stock another 50-100 hsb when the fish truck comes back with 250 black crappie as well.

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Big pond water temperature is 64 degrees. Lots of new vegetation established itself over the first year in the pond without additional plantings. I need to look further into whether or not there was a successful spawn by the YP. It was a record year thus far for the amount of rain causing the flow thru pond to become very mud stained throughout the late winter until late summer. The conditions vastly improved after vegetation became established. I’m considering taking 10-20 adult YP from the big pond and transferring to the forage pond to guarantee YP reproduction next year as YP serve as both predator and prey. Guess that I will make a definitive decision towards the end of this year. Since my last post the number of fish coming to the feeder has dropped off considerably adjusting my Optimal Junior feed to once for 2 seconds in the early morning. Still plan on stocking an additional 50-100 HSB and 250 HBC next month if I can locate them.

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Multi species 2.7 acre pond is almost complete with 200 RES, 1000+ YP, 200 HSB, 50 CC and 250 BC. I plan to add 35-50 larger 3lb+ SMB fall of 2021 from local lakes. Recently found out there are lots of TFS available from a nearby lake as well that have been here many years. I’m not sure how they have survived but I’m going to give them a chance. The forage pond and big pond contains creek chubs, mountain redbelly dace, FHM, golden shiners, toad tadpoles, bullfrog tadpoles, spring lizards and local crayfish all of which had been stocked a year prior to adding the predator fish with the exception of the small RES and under 500 of the feed trained YP. I guess that I will find out how my dream “salt water” pond will turn out. I call it “salt water” pond only because it is a fresh water pond that you can fish and not know what your going to catch.
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My oldest son just returned from the farm. He did a one second test feed that got some action. He set a one second throw in the morning and a one second throw in the evening. I ordered a bag of Optimal Jr and a bag of Optimal Bass tonight to mix in the Texas Hunter feeder. I’m still looking for Spotfin Shiners if anyone has located a source.
Thanks!
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Heppy, I should have numbers of SFS a bit later on here. I'll know more when I clean out my forage pond.

EDIT: I just read the part about moving some 3lb SMB into your pond.. Might not want to hear this but I think you'll be disappointed because those fish grew up in a completely different situation that a structure/habitat/forage specialist type fish depends on. Don't expect any growth from those. I've tried this with LMB in some area ponds and they never done what I thought they would. Recently I had the pleasure of setting down with Bob Lusk and discussing a few items such as this and he gave me a prime example of the same situation. I think I understand this better now than I ever did and unless conditions are nearly identical, moving fish of that species at that size will have a very disappointing outcome.

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Snipe,
I’ve been flipping back and forth on the SMB. Now that you have awakened me from my dream I will heed your advice. Thanks for confirming my mistake in my plan before I made it. I really do appreciate it. I sent you a pm as well about the SFS.
Thanks!
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At the risk of making things more complex than necessary.....Per Lusk and Kenny, stocking adult fish into new BOW environment can lead to:

1. fish thriving and continuing to grow
2. fish plateau and don't grow much
3. fish decline in new environment [lose weight and/or die]

Lusk had some % of each to expect in recent article regarding adult fish collection/transport/stocking. This is proven science per Lusk and Kenny, so bank on it.

Now, one benefit of stocking adult SMB would be at least getting reproduction going this season and not waiting for age 0 fish to reach sexual maturity [could be a year or two], and even if the transported adult fish don't thrive, you do have a population established via spawn and that generation growing much sooner.

Another benefit is selecting only obviously thriving adult fish to stock from your collection efforts, you're ultimately in control of the genetic selection [IE: Select only fish exceeding 110 WR, etc.]. If you aren't in love with the body condition of the fish, release and keep collecting. So while Kenny and Lusk are obviously correct about tempering expectations on the performance of stocking adult fish, there are a couple potential benefits to consider before you scrap the plan entirely. Even if the stocked fish don't thrive, you still have their genetics established in the pond and their offspring should perform well in the coming years.

FYI: I started my SMB fishery 13 years ago stocking both thriving, adult fish collected [15 fish] AND stocking age 0 6-8" feed trained fish from Rex via Fountain Bluff Hatchery. I'm not recommending you do this, however for me things worked out well. Again, just temper your expectations on the performance of the adult fish if you go this route.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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teehjaeh57,
Now you are making my head hurt. Decisions, decisions....
Thanks for your very helpful advice!
Heppy

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Hey man, either way you go you're not going to make a mistake, it just comes down to your timeline and goals...are you patient, or do you want to get there yesterday?

If you ever want to chat I'm happy to help, I love discussing anything cool water species oriented. I've made nearly every fish management mistake possible, and invented all sorts of cool, new ways to accidentally kill fish. We can cover a lot of ground in 15 min - ping me anytime - my time is always free to the PBF.

tj@hudlandmgmt.com

TJ

PS: I just reviewed this thread from start to finish, sorry I never chimed in sooner as you directed some questions my way. Cody placed you on temporary probation, you went ahead and stocked BCP and CC anyhow, and never posted photos of your crays so he could verify species. I do not recommend offending Dr. Perca with your insolence moving forward. SMDH. You can lead a Hep to water.... wink


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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One thing about adding adult fish that I don't remember being addressed is the possibility of introducing invasive species to the water with the fish. I am talking about Zebra Mussels, Eurasian Water Milfoil, etc. I recommend doing at least Three 100% water changes with the fish, or doing the salt dip method to help clean the fish (and water) of any nasties. The salt dip is way better.


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teehjaeh57,
I sent the crayfish pics to Dr. Perca and he identified them for me in PM. My pond is flow through and the native crayfish will be going in anyways. The only reason that I went ahead and stocked the BC is because I couldn’t locate a supplier of HBC in my neck of the woods then. The BC had to be introduced at that time IMO because of the 55 8 inch HSB. I didn’t want the BC to be smaller than the mouth gape of the HSB when stocked to just be lunch. The 50 small CC 3-5 inch stocked were just a spur of the moment decision on my part. The only reason Bill Cody might have me on probation is because I’ve been unable to locate SFS after helping me build spawning devices. I deployed them last summer in different locations and was unsuccessful obtaining the eggs of either SFS or Satinfin shiner. I’m still currently trying to source them after my defeat last summer. We did speak last year and I appreciate the time that you took advising me. The redbelly mountain dace have exceeded my expectations as an alternative forage fish. I hope this makes more sense now.
Thanks!
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Esshup,
I can guarantee you that if I end up moving SMB from a different body of water I will use the salt dip. Thank you for the information!
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All good man, just razzin ya. If you need to chat let me know. Good job on the cray id. Harvest your cc and bcp and have fun.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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