Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Channel Catfish Pond. Adding Other Species?

I am still planning my ponds in south-central Kansas. I would like a small pond (0.5 - 1 acres) for channel catfish. The goal is to have a catching and eating pond always available when there are no other gamefish scheduled for significant culling in the other ponds.

A lot of the literature suggests that a CC monoculture pond is the easiest to manage. The simplest management strategy is pellet feeding and no structure for spawning (since CC-only ponds can get quickly overpopulated after good spawns.)

I would like to add RES for some parasite intervention. However, I have not seen this as a common recommendation for CC ponds.

Question: Since RES and CC both like to forage along the bottom, will the larger adult CC consume all of the RES in a short time period?

I would also like to add some structure to the pond to concentrate the CC for hook & line angling. Even though I would not be adding their "preferred" type of spawning structure, there is still a lot of pressure on the fish to spawn if it is at all possible. (Or I could deliberately add a few spawning culverts to try and create a self-sustaining CC pond.)

The articles I have read about spawning CC ponds usually mention LMB as the predator to keep the CC numbers in check. They suggest that the LMB are quite efficient at hoovering up almost all of the CC fry. However, I am worried that as the LMB get larger, they would then also be consuming the 7-10" catfish that are most efficient at converting pellet feed to body mass.

Question: What about adding a predator with a smaller mouth gape such as HSB?

I could absolutely control the number of predators since the HSB don't reproduce. Would they be just as good as LMB at eating up the small fry, BUT better at leaving the fingerlings due to the smaller mouth gape?

If so, would the HSB prefer to eat the feed pellets, or would they still prey on the CC fry when they are available?

Finally, if the HSB are not keeping the CC numbers in check, would adding a few single-sex LMB be a good idea at that point to get the pond back in balance?

Thanks for the help,
FishinRod

If your goal is to just have a Catfish pond as a reliable, on demand food source, then I don't think other species are necessarily required if you're going to stay on top of the pelleted feeding. I don't think adding a few RES will hurt if you're worried about parasites/snails, and they don't tend to overpopulate like other species of sunfish. You could always try to get RES of all one sex, if you're worried about them breeding and taking over. Larger CC will definitely feed on baby RES, and you probably wouldn't need but a few RES in a small pond to handle the snail duties.

HSB would be a great addition, for both food and sport, and would also eat any YoY CC or RES that may end up in there. My ultimate goal, similar to yours, is a Blue Cat and HSB pond (someday).

If no spawning structure is present, you shouldn't have any CC reproduction at all.

If you can get the RES established with a good head start in size, I think you could have RES for several years before the CC get, say, 5 pounds and start eating the larger RES. The RES could also add to the forage base for the CC. I have no real experience here...just my 2¢.

I think HSB would be a good choice for CC YOY control. My HSB cleaned up the FHM in the pond in a matter of two years. They did not, however, do a lot of surface pellet eating. So little that I could not tell if they were going after pellets or going after FHM's pushing the pellets around. After year #2 with barely a minnow left, the HSB seem to stop hitting the surface as much at feeding time, but you could see the flash of their bodies about 18" down...maybe pellet eating, maybe eating HBG YOY, or both...IDK. If you do put in HSB, you will want to use heavier line (like CC) to get them in. They are a freight train on the line.

Adding single sex LMB will always be an option. You'll just have to wait and see. The hardest part that I have found about pond management is being confident with any sort of population estimate. So often I wished I had a pond void of fish just above this one so I could drain the stocked pond, count the fish, and then fill it back up. Probably would not be a good idea in reality, but curiosity is killing this cat!

Steve, thanks for help.

(Did you ever find a viable source for your blue catfish stock?)

Nah, nothing on the east coast. Only suppliers I found are in TX and MO I believe. Too far for me. I'm going to be attempting some aquaculture of my own, and see what happens. I've already ordered the spawn-inducing hormone, and I have all the "supplies" I need sitting in my Amazon cart, waiting to pull the trigger.

I've watched probably every Youtube video available on how to do this, and read every document I could find. Should be interesting, that's for sure.

I second (third?) the suggestions above. RES will not overpopulate, so no worries there. HSB are a great addition since they won't reproduce, will help with predation of YOY CC, and a fun once in a while catch. Typically take to feed as well. Be prepared to spend a LOT on pellets, if that's going to be their primary, or really only, food source. I love reading about species specific ponds like this.

Noel,

My experience with pellet feeding of HSB was based on snrub showing his results.

(See his "Building new forage mini pond" thread, specifically the 11/29/20 post for anyone wanting more info.)

After they slaughtered the FHM forage he provided for them, the HSB then grew very rapidly on both Aquamax and Optimal. I assumed (wrongly) that his example of pellet consuming behavior was typical. I later re-read his thread and he states that his HSB were fed Cargill starter at the hatchery.

I did not realized that purchasing pellet-trained stocking fish was almost a separate category of fish!

I think you and Steve's advice about using HSB as a CC fry predator could really create a nicely balanced fishery. I think untrained HSB would be the stocker of choice.

I may try some very limited spawning habitat. Would the fastest growing CC be the ones that "win" the spawning rights? If so, then I would be naturally selecting for the CC that would be preferred for the pond's goals.

Catfish spawning habitat is usually set in pretty shallow water. If I get too much reproduction, then I can always pull the habitat. Heck, I could even try alternate year installation of the spawning habitat. That might act like "ladder stocking" the pond. (I probably should NOT use concrete culvert pipe if I am going to try that option!)

From what I gather, the larger CC spawn first, as they all don't spawn at the same time. If you created one piece of spawning structure, it could get used by multiple pairs during the same season. Catfish farms that use the pond-spawning method usually have 1 spawning container for every 2-4 breeding pairs. See? All that Youtube research has paid off! Lol...

Omaha,

Some of the literature I read said that CC are some of the most efficient fish at converting pellet feed to body mass.

As you point out, the feed will be either their primary or only source of food. If I am creating more CC fillets than my family can eat, what happens to the CC when I start cutting back on their pellet feed rate? Do CC just slow down their metabolism and growth rate?

I have never closely considered this question before. Instead of starving, is the response of fish just to become stunted as a response to a significant decrease in a previously abundant food source?

Your comment really makes me want to add the RES. If the CC have less pellet protein available, will they start consuming the small RES? That will definitely cost them some energy to consume their meal.

Finally, I believe larger CC eat their fry and fingerlings. Is that a significant part of their diet? (Like it is for LMB.)

Steve said,

"From what I gather, the larger CC spawn first, as they all don't spawn at the same time. If you created one piece of spawning structure, it could get used by multiple pairs during the same season. Catfish farms that use the pond-spawning method usually have 1 spawning container for every 2-4 breeding pairs. See? All that Youtube research has paid off! Lol..."

I did not even consider that possibility. Good point!

If you manage to perfect your blue catfish hormonal treatment breeding program, you will probably qualify as a "catfish sex therapist".

Do you think you can find some catfish to pay you $150/hour to help them with their sex lives? That would definitely help supplement your pond management budget!

Lol, I'm sure I can find some humans that I can charge $150/hr to help their catfish with their sex lives. Can't promise it'll work though

And if we wait long enough, I'm sure some "woke" person somewhere will find it offensive to force fish to breed, and make a law that bans it. Did I just say that last part out loud?

In case you don't have it ... check out this.

https://wkrec.ca.uky.edu/files/smallscalehomeuse.pdf

"Did I just say that last part out loud?"

If you start taking heat, I am sure someone on the forum can photoshop a COVID mask onto your profile pic to hide your true identity!

Thanks jpsdad, I will ad that one to my "Catfish" folder.

From the link:

"They are looking for additional farm enterprises that can be conducted with minimal inputs, that is, a 5-gallon bucket and a pickup truck."

They have pretty well described my current assets for the project!

I have read several similar reports on the ease of CC production from the agencies of numerous other states in the region. They all make it sound as easy as falling out of bed at night.

Surely I can handle that level of difficulty with the help of the people on Pond Boss!

The part they don't talk about is what happens when a fungus gets started from packing the numbers, then spending the next year drying and sterilizing everything.

Yes, I figured those types of reports sometimes leave out the "hard" parts.

Snrub had good reproductive success on his RES before they had to contend with a significant predator. What do you think about putting RES in the CC pond and giving them a head start?

Also, the RES are effective in breaking the life cycle of some of our common fish parasites. If fungus is a potential problem in catfish ponds, would RES help in mitigating that problem?

Would some of our other forage fish (like shiners) help with fungus?

I don't think adding the RES would be a detriment. I am completely unsure about using HSB to control the CC offspring because they inhabit completely different areas of the pond water column.

If it were my pond project, I'd restrict the CC spawning to 0 if possible.

Fungus issues are a water quality/fish health issue. Keep the fish healthy and the water quality good and fungus shouldn't be a problem.

If you cut back on the feeding, expect the water to get muddy as the CC start going through the bottom sediment for something to eat.

"If it were my pond project, I'd restrict the CC spawning to 0 if possible."

That is the predominant advice in the literature from the state agencies.

It is also a pretty "idiot-proof" starting point for me. If the pond is working well, without spawning - great. If I want to try some spawning later (instead of re-stocking), then it is easy to add catfish spawning habitat to an existing pond.

"Fungus issues are a water quality/fish health issue. Keep the fish healthy and the water quality good and fungus shouldn't be a problem."

I have read several of the threads about parasites in ponds. Fungus issues were a new one on me. I will have a live creek available for a water supply. I assume some water exchange for the pond is the easiest way to maintain water quality? I am planning to install a bottom drain, so I can pull water off the bottom of the pond as needed.

"If you cut back on the feeding, expect the water to get muddy as the CC start going through the bottom sediment for something to eat."

That is why I believe a separate CC pond is the best solution for our land, let them treat their "own" pond the way they like it!

Thanks,
Rod

Rod, "it depends" on the quality of the creek water too........

Another thread on Pond Boss encounters the "it depends" monster!

I think the "quality" of my creek water is relatively high, but I didn't think to ask what constitutes poor water quality that you would typically find in a CC pond.

What is the most likely water issue in the pond that would lead to fungus in the CC pond? What are the most likely water quality issues that are NOT related to fungus?

(My CC pond will have an almost 100% clay bottom. I assume one issue may be suspended clay and water turbidity when that catfish are working the bottom.)

Once I have determined the water "needs" of the CC pond, then I can evaluate how well the creek water can meet these needs.

The creek runs very clear and has a sandy bottom in most places. I am going to take water samples for chemical analysis throughout the year to determine if there are any "unseen" issues - BEFORE I spend money to break ground on ponds.

What are the essential items I need to ensure are included in the water chemical analysis?

There are also a lot of row crops in the watershed above my stretch of the creek. I may have excess fertilizer in the creek water at some portion of the year. It might be important NOT to add water to the CC pond during those periods. However, it could actually be beneficial water when it is time to fertilize some of the other ponds.

Water quality issues are low dissolved O2, high ammonia levels, nigh nitrite levels; high copper levels will kill them. Anything that stresses the fish will lower their immune system and allow the fungus that is naturally in all the waters to start attacking their body.

While this doesn't apply to fungus, certain planktonic algae species will build up in the catfish flesh and give them an "off" flavor.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jwas.12672

You may want to make sure that either Pak 27 or Phycomicin is available at your local pond chemical supplier. That is used to treat algae in catfish ponds.

If you pump water from the creek, you have to filter it through a 64 micron filter cloth to eliminate pumping fish larvae or fertilized fish eggs into your pond from the stream. They WILL survive going through a pump.....

Just like feeding pet food, feed a good high quality fish food because more of the food will be converted to fish flesh and less will pass through the fish to foul the water. It's actually cheaper to feed Optimal Fish Food to the fish than a cheap locally sourced fish food if you calculate the amount of fish food needed to put on a pound of fish flesh.

The link in esshup's post is a published scientific study on Off-Flavors in Pond-Grown Catfish. It looks like an excellent article to read if you sometimes have a problem with off-flavor catfish in your ponds!

Thanks for clarifying the creek water quality issues to be covered in my testing.

I have previously posted a question on PB about fish and vegetation contamination from the creek water supply. I received many good suggestions

Your comment about some algae types ruining the flavor of the catfish is very intriguing! If the whole point of the pond is to catch and eat CC, then that is a key issue to consider.

I have not seen any literature proposing adding tilapia to a CC pond. (Our pond will be cold enough every year to winter kill the tilapia.)

Would adding tilapia be a good recommendation for making the catfish taste better?

Thanks,
Rod

If have algae that make for an off taste in CC, tilapia might help. Whenever I stock them, algae goes down the hatch very quickly. Voracious! Besides, they are good eating themselves, converting useless biomass into something worthwhile.

Yes they will help. In fact, the catfish will outcompete them for feed and they will feed on the secondary effects of feed on the food web. The catfish will have almost identical food conversion but there will be an additional crop of TP with no additional feed inputs. The water quality will be much better too. This is factual and has been known long time ... From Swingle below:

FishingRod,

Given your interest, take also a look at this ...

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ve_Feeding_and_Growth_of_Channel_Catfish

I designed a spreadsheet feeding schedule based on these equations and shared it in post of one of John Fitzgerald's threads. You can design your own of course ... if that one doesn't meet the need.