Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
LeahTerry, Lon M, toledo, JasmineHart, Mike Eoff
17157 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics38,700
Posts526,069
Members17,158
Most Online3,583
Jan 15th, 2020
Top Posters
esshup 25,188
ewest 20,532
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 13,706
Who's Online Now
8 members (Tbar, Fyfer123, toledo, G_Stan2000@yahoo, 4CornersPuddle, RAH, anthropic, dentistbyday), 330 guests, and 372 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #530115 01/30/21 07:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,706
Likes: 46
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,706
Likes: 46
Remember that 25/ac is around 30 to 35 LMB in 0.75ac.


Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Bill Cody #530116 01/30/21 08:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 40
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 40
Originally Posted by Bill Cody
Remember that 25/ac is around 30 to 35 LMB in 0.75ac.
My math says 17-18 fish Bill. Am I missing the formula? Is this an official "it depends" moment?? :-))

Last edited by Snipe; 01/30/21 08:52 PM.
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
CityDad #530117 01/30/21 08:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 40
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 40
CityDad, Lusk made a comment last weds that it's best to stock what native variety is most common.. My personal opinion would be biased because I'm not familiar with FL Craws so I would highly recommend following Bob's advice and stock local varieties.

Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #530118 01/30/21 09:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,706
Likes: 46
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,706
Likes: 46
Snipe is "sharp" in his math skills tonight. Yes 25/ac is 17-18 fish for 0.75 acre. Personally I would stock a few extra more like 25 to 35 LMB because we have to remember that about 1/2 of the these stocker bass would be males and would be the slower growing stocked bass. Tests have shown that male LMB rarely ever reach 5 lbs and usually around 3-4 lbs. After the bass had grown for at least one year and during year 2, I would start trying to remove the shorter bass that were being caught. This could reduce the number of stocked bass down to around the 20 per acre and help keep the amount of forage fish still abundant to allow plenty of food for the remaining bass to keep growing.

New experimentation by Solitude Lake Mgmt in VA has found that to grow big bass fast the pond should have biomass of forage far greater than the 10 lbs of forage to grow predators one pound. In this study the results indicated that when all female LMB were stocked at 13" they quickly reached the 5-6lb weights. We should remember that Gaftopsail's pond is in GA where LMB have the potential to reach the 8-10 lb status when the bass are not crowded and ALWAYS have plenty of the correct size of forage food items.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/30/21 09:41 PM.

Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #530120 01/30/21 09:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 40
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 40
Good point Bill. if 30 were stocked and 15 were male/female, there may be only 3-5 fast growing "trophy" -or- large size potential there. Very good point!

Last edited by Snipe; 01/30/21 09:24 PM.
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
CityDad #530122 01/30/21 11:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 25,188
Likes: 89
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 25,188
Likes: 89
Unless you have plenty of habitat for them(crayfish) to hide in to escape predators (piles of rocks, riprap a few stones thick, etc.) they won't establish in a pond, they will all get eaten in a year or less.

I'm talking 2 full truck loads, double axle dump trucks per acre.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/31/21 11:37 AM.

www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #530129 01/31/21 11:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,706
Likes: 46
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,706
Likes: 46
esshup has it correct - ample habitat is what grows the best quality fish. "So goes the habitat; so goes the fishery".

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/31/21 11:34 AM.

Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #530146 01/31/21 08:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,706
Likes: 46
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,706
Likes: 46
However we should not forget nor overlook Gafftopsail’s original goal: “My goal is to have a fishery that provides fast fishing action for my kids and their friends and family, and get bass in the 4-5 pound range, eventually.”
If the goal is for primarily LMB in the 4 to 5 lb range then if more than 25/ac are stocked, four main things will happen assuming ample forage foods are available. 1. More bass should be stocked as with 60 to 70/ac. 2. More original stocker bass will be present to create more top end bass present. 3. Anglers will have faster action of catching bass. 4. More bass will eat more BG and this will reduce BG numbers allowing more BG to grow larger for more exciting fast angler panfish action.

The current philosophy or management recommendation of stocking 25 LMB per acre is rationale for producing relatively quickly very large bass toward the 8-10 pound range. If the goal is for the larger top end bass to be 4 to 5 lbs then this can be accomplished when using a higher number of stocker bass. Since 4lb bass is part of the fishery goal, some of the original male bass should eventually reach the 3.75 to 4 lb category and contribute to the 'group' of bigger stocker bass in the pond. If pellet trained stocker bass are used, then the number of LMB stocked could even be more as in 75 to 90 per acre.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/01/21 12:11 PM.

Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #530150 02/01/21 07:02 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,917
Likes: 40
Moderator
Lunker
Online Confused
Moderator
Lunker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,917
Likes: 40
One never goes broke betting on Bill Cody.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i582.photobucket.com]
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Bill Cody #530175 02/01/21 07:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,532
Likes: 47
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,532
Likes: 47
Originally Posted by Bill Cody
There are several concepts for the initial stocking of LMBass (LMB) for numbers per acre. This depends on ones goals. The three main goals are 1. general fishing, 2. mostly large panfish and 3. a focus on producing large bass. The most common stocking densities of LMB range from 25 to 100+ bass per acre. Generally the lower numbers of 25-40 per acre are for producing large bass quickly, mid-range numbers of 50-80/ac are for general fishing and higher numbers of 90-140 LMB/ac are for growing trophy panfish.

Further most of the low LMB stocking #s are for southern waters where reproduction is sooner and LMB overcrowding is more prevalent. Northern LMB stocking is substantially different for the opposite reasons.

Cody Note: At least in the smaller ponds in northern midwest and probably in most of the midwest, it is common to have various degrees of overcrowding of LMB. Four of the most common things I think cause this to occur: 1. no bass are removed (Harvested), 2. poor survival of the originally stocked BG. 3. State agency stocking recommendation is stock a ratio of 100LMB to 500BG at the same time. This often results in the bass quickly growing and over powering the first year class of BG. 4. BG only spawn once maybe some twice a year and too many LMB are present for the limited number of BG produced each year. Some well fed LMB in the midwest can spawn at one year old.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/01/21 09:31 PM.















1 member likes this: anthropic
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Bill Cody #530242 02/04/21 10:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 12
G
OP Offline
G
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by Bill Cody
However we should not forget nor overlook Gafftopsail’s original goal: “My goal is to have a fishery that provides fast fishing action for my kids and their friends and family, and get bass in the 4-5 pound range, eventually.”
If the goal is for primarily LMB in the 4 to 5 lb range then if more than 25/ac are stocked, four main things will happen assuming ample forage foods are available. 1. More bass should be stocked as with 60 to 70/ac. 2. More original stocker bass will be present to create more top end bass present. 3. Anglers will have faster action of catching bass. 4. More bass will eat more BG and this will reduce BG numbers allowing more BG to grow larger for more exciting fast angler panfish action.

The current philosophy or management recommendation of stocking 25 LMB per acre is rationale for producing relatively quickly very large bass toward the 8-10 pound range. If the goal is for the larger top end bass to be 4 to 5 lbs then this can be accomplished when using a higher number of stocker bass. Since 4lb bass is part of the fishery goal, some of the original male bass should eventually reach the 3.75 to 4 lb category and contribute to the 'group' of bigger stocker bass in the pond. If pellet trained stocker bass are used, then the number of LMB stocked could even be more as in 75 to 90 per acre.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply, Bill Cody. If I were to put my goal in one sentence, it would be to have panfish as big as possible but not sacrifice some decent sized LMB in the process. 70% of the fishing is going to be kids bobber fishing, 20% is going to be fly fishing, and 10% will be my buddies that like to catch bass. I am not a bass fisherman, per se, but living in the south that's the main attraction. And when I accidentally back into one I admit they're pretty fun to catch. So sounds like I should at least double my LMB numbers to accomplish that?

Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #530245 02/04/21 12:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,706
Likes: 46
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,706
Likes: 46
If you FIRST start with establishing a strong forage fish and crayfish community, I think in your 0.75 ac you could easily stock 65 to 75 LMB and get great growth rates for the first 3 years with some bass 4lb and maybe a few 5 lbs. Stock your minnows/BG early in the spring then in the fall try and find Young Of Year bass that are at least 7"-10" from Georgia which shows they have been fed well and will have good growth rates. Also try to find pellet trained LMB which will greatly enhance the fishery. After the first bass spawn, then be observant and harvest at least some bass based on the numbers of small bass you are seeing and catching. This could easily be 15-30 small bass out per year. Small bass will be eager to bite on anglers bobber fishing methods. Use this forum thread and the members to help you with information to manage the fish numbers to achieve and MAINTAIN your goals.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/04/21 12:10 PM.

Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
2 members like this: Gafftopsail, Gafftopsail
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #530248 02/04/21 12:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,532
Likes: 47
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,532
Likes: 47
This plan will work with good population mgt. ! With feeding and those #s of LMB the first 3 years should be good. It will be managing the population from 3 yr out which will take some effort but is doable. This 3 yr on mgt. aspect is true of all LMB/BG stocking methods.
I would make one suggestion on initial stocking. I would find and stock 30 4-6 inch CNBG (50/50 male/female) along with the initial CNBG stocking (1000).
















2 members like this: Gafftopsail, Gafftopsail
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #531268 03/01/21 02:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 16
Likes: 2
M
Online Content
M
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 16
Likes: 2
Question on size of forage and LMB to stock. I've attached a price list of a place I'm looking at getting my fish from...
Suggestions on what size if the BG and RES y'all would recommend...
Thanks in advance...

Attached Files
Price List.PNG (380.82 KB, 43 downloads)
Last edited by Mongos Pond; 03/01/21 02:10 PM.
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #531321 03/02/21 07:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 80
Likes: 1
5
Offline
5
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 80
Likes: 1
CityDad, from my research you want papershell crawfish. They are not a burrowing type and the last thing you want is deep boreholes in your dam. You will want some rock piles for cover and breeding. Others have recommended not adding crawfish to your pond until predators are established because the crawfish can over populate and get out of hand pretty quickly. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum from guys like snipe, Bill Cody, Quarter acre, TJ, esshup, and many others. They all have been very helpful and instrumental in helping me with my pond.


5444
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #531330 03/02/21 09:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 186
Likes: 2
N
Offline
N
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 186
Likes: 2
How far north can a paper shell live?


61 acre water shed lake. bass, channel cat, black crappie, wiper, walleye, redear sunfish and bluegill. To many bullhead and common carp
http://www.pondboss.com/news/videos/why-subscribe-to-pond-boss
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #531337 03/02/21 11:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,532
Likes: 47
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,532
Likes: 47
Originally Posted by Mongos Pond
Question on size of forage and LMB to stock. I've attached a price list of a place I'm looking at getting my fish from...
Suggestions on what size if the BG and RES y'all would recommend...
Thanks in advance...

It depends on your goals and approach to mgt. (timing). All the comments below are subject to your goals , $ available and timing and availability.

My approach would be to stock FH first (now).

In about a mth +- stock small BG , CNBG and RES I would use 3/4 of my BG budget on small stockers and 1/4 on 4-5 inch fish. I would shoot for 500 small stockers and 50 4-5 inch.

Then in about 2-3 mths stock LMB (40) in the 4-5 inch size. I would stock 30 Northerns and10 F-1s . No Fla LMB at your location.

I would wait on CC and anticipate stocking advanced size 10 inch when pond has been stocked for a year. I would treat CC as put and take.

Other options like YP and HSB I would use the advanced size stocking method like CC.

Last edited by ewest; 03/02/21 11:09 AM.















Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
ewest #531353 03/02/21 01:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 16
Likes: 2
M
Online Content
M
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 16
Likes: 2
Thanks ewest.. Love to tap y'alls' knowledge...

Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #531408 03/03/21 08:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 14,816
Likes: 30
D
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 14,816
Likes: 30
Agree with Esshup re crawdads. With predation, I doubt that they will last very long. Expensive snack.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Is this a good mix for a new pond?
Gafftopsail #531443 03/03/21 06:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 16
Likes: 2
M
Online Content
M
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 16
Likes: 2
Really like the pallet idea for fathead cover.

Attached Files
FB_IMG_1614812354867.jpg (88.98 KB, 22 downloads)
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
FattyMcButterpants, sdstohler
Recent Posts
Hybrid striped bass and walleye, when to add
by Fyfer123 - 04/17/21 03:55 PM
Mixing Diquat and Cutrine Plus
by jim100 - 04/17/21 02:00 PM
PVC Trees
by Flame - 04/17/21 01:38 PM
Thoughts on a new 2.7 acre pond stocking
by Heppy - 04/17/21 10:27 AM
Catfish bluegill feeding
by Layne - 04/17/21 08:09 AM
Core
by esshup - 04/17/21 04:39 AM
New member, first time pond owner
by FishinRod - 04/16/21 10:52 PM
The Big Chill
by anthropic - 04/16/21 06:58 PM
Leaky Pond - Pond sealer
by teehjaeh57 - 04/16/21 06:42 PM
Yellow-perch larvae and fry.(video).
by azteca - 04/16/21 02:18 PM
What color of light.
by LeahTerry - 04/16/21 01:42 PM
BC Coloration
by gehajake - 04/16/21 12:56 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Establishing new Maine pond.
Establishing new Maine pond.
by Mainahs70, April 5
Mongo's New Pond
Mongo's New Pond
by Mongos Pond, February 27
Ice Ice Baby
Ice Ice Baby
by highflyer, February 21
ID?
ID?
by Quixotic, February 7
pond gone
pond gone
by Stressless, January 31

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4