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Snipe #529934 01/22/21 01:06 PM
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There is a market up here in Northern Indiana for LMB that weigh 1# to 1.5# - it's the food fish market for restaurants that carry live fish for their customers. There are fish suppliers that will stock 5,000 feed trained 6"-8" LMB in a 1 acre pond, feed them an insane amount of feed, aerate the heck out of the water and get them to market size in 12 months. They don't sell just a few fish, they clean out the whole pond and start fresh. When the fish are harvested, you can buy small amounts of adult fish from the company that buys them from the producer if there are extra fish available. The price that they sell them for is in line with the price that Snipe has for the SMB.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
esshup #529938 01/22/21 01:58 PM
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esshup,

This document outlines the state of market LMB grown for food in 2000. There has been some inflation since then of course. An excerpt:

Quote
All 103 suppliers of largemouth bass listed in the Aquaculture Magazine Buyer’s Guide ‘99 andIndustry Directory (Aquaculture Magazine 1999) were sent a letter that explained the purpose of thiswhite paper and requested information on what they felt were needed research areas. The majority didnot respond. Additional phone contacts were made with known producers. In all, feedback wasobtained from 20 private producers and managers of two state hatcheries. These aquaculturists werelocated in Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Missouri, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma,Pennsylvania, Texas, and France. The wholesale values of fingerling largemouth bass depend uponsize, geographic location, and the number sold to the customer. Mean value from this survey forfingerlings sold in small lots, excluding the much higher values given for Maine, New York, andPennsylvania are 1–2 in $0.35, 2–4 in $0.68, 4–6 in $0.94, 6–8 in $2.07, and 8–10 in $3.74. Thesales price for large lots may be discounted 50%. Largemouth bass sold live to the Asian market sellfor $3.00–$5.00/lb. Largemouth bass are being sold to the pay-fishing market for $6.00/lb.A number of fish culturists indicated that they couldn’t produce sufficient quantities of 8 in andlarger largemouth bass to meet the demand. The demand for smaller fingerlings would increase if thenatural resource agencies stopped producing largemouth bass. Many private state aquacultureassociations have tried with little success to get their natural resource agency to phase out largemouthbass production. Tidwell et al. (In press) stated that the demand for largemouth bass greater than 1.0lb has been identified to exceed 700,000 lb/yr with a value of over $3.00/lb live weight. Tidwell et al.(In press) made the following cost estimates; production estimates for an economic engineeringapproach were taken from research results at Kentucky State University. Cost estimates were basedon numbers generated for a catfish production system composed of 4, 5-acre ponds under Kentuckyconditions. Based on a stocker price of $0.50 per feed trained fingerling, a yield of 4,350 lb/acre, anda selling price of $3.00/lb (live sales) approximately $12,750/acre gross revenues are generated whichallows a return of $6,623/acre above variable costs and $5,950 after operator labor. A break-evenestimate under these assumptions would be $1.60/lb.Until these higher yields have been routinely demonstrated for large ponds, it is recommended thatcost estimates be based on 1,500–2,000 lb of production/acre.


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


Snipe #529945 01/22/21 07:34 PM
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On to other items..
Continuing with the plan, I have TH feeders lined up to provide consistency in feed delivery, I've yet to decide on what I will be using to fill the feeders with but I'm slightly biased in my choice of what I feed my main pond with and with plans on number of fish I won't be buying "pallets worth" at a time. It will be more expensive but I'd rather pay a bit more a bag and not have feed left over at the end of each year.
Ponds will have floating docks in the middle of each run that are extremely portable if needed, and can be easily pulled for seining purposes.
My plan for these docks is so I can more easily utilize cage pens for containment.
I'm going to have a couple of pens set up in main pond for holding small numbers of larger specimens but I want to maintain the best quality on the water of that pond.
My original forage pond is between new cells and main pond so I've decided that cell will become my "wetland" cell.
In a State project last year we planted some river bulrush to get an idea as to how fast it spreads/how invasive it may be and we've determined rather quickly that it spreads incredibly fast and is not a good candidate for another community project we completed last year so we are using common, soft stem bulrush and some sedges in the wetland area there.
I'm going to start a massive effort to establish sago pondweed in this cell also and hopefully use it as a nutrient burner. The River bulrush will be topped when it reaches 2-3ft and allowed to grow back to remove instead of recycle nutrients continuously. This will also possibly be a good shrimp cell and possibly a shiner variety I have not settled on yet because the water will be continuously in motion (circular) by design. That may well change by the end of next fall also, this is something my biologist wants me to try-we'll see how that works.
The upper 3 cells will gravity feed to wetland cell. Depending on how this works, wetland cell water will be mixed with well water and ran into main pond at any ratio I choose at the time, or, it can be moved back to upper cells if quality is such.

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Snipe #529951 01/23/21 12:14 AM
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K I have plenty of APW, arrowhead and some sedges and rushes I’m happy to donate when I see you this spring. I like your plans so far especially the wetland project. Gonna call you for an update this weekend.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Snipe #529952 01/23/21 01:26 AM
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I'm going to hold you to the APW, TJ..:-))

Snipe #530002 01/25/21 01:29 PM
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When you visit we will get transplants - sedge, rush and the APW and anything else you want - how about 10 million American Bullfrog tadpoles? I've got plenty of Cottonwood and Willow saplings I can send your way too - saves me from having to pull them every year! smirk


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Snipe #530037 01/27/21 03:13 AM
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TJ, I have some gift fish for you as well, but I need one thing from you...
Please explain the SOCK PUPPET!!!

Snipe #533414 04/04/21 10:40 PM
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Pond 3, 4 and 5 completed with shaping this week, ready for seal. Not sure I didn't bite off more than I was ready for because it's become my life 12-15 hrs a day.
Between finishing ponds, sorting fish, planting grass, stripping walleye and seining perch, I need about 3 more people.
Question, Has anyone tried using Optimal Jr and #4 mixed together?

Snipe #533860 04/13/21 02:13 PM
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Sounds like your one busy man. Hope its all going as you planned in your head.


The people who say I can't do it can just sit the @^#% down and watch me. Friends call me Rusto I also subscribe to pond boss mag. http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504716#Post504716
Snipe #533861 04/13/21 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Snipe
...Question, Has anyone tried using Optimal Jr and #4 mixed together?

I have mixed the two previously. I talk about how it worked in my feeder here...

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=37369&Number=488179#Post488179

I had a range of smaller HBG and FHM's hence the mixture.


Fish on!,
Noel
Snipe #534911 05/07/21 01:53 PM
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Have you been getting any rains to fill up your project ponds? Have ya took any pictures of the place? You said in a post above continuous motion from circular design. Will this be from pumps or just a natural affect?


The people who say I can't do it can just sit the @^#% down and watch me. Friends call me Rusto I also subscribe to pond boss mag. http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504716#Post504716
Snipe #539877 09/17/21 10:01 PM
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I haven't done a very good job of keeping this updated but I'll try a bit here..
This summer has kicked my butt.. Too many things all at one time-I bit off too much...:-))
Building is about done but the overhead doors are on back-order. Was told yesterday mid november which creates a problem I have NO CONTROL over.. Going to be hard to move Tilapia inside and save them with 2 big missing doors.
Need to figure out how to heat incoming well water a bit and various other items that I'm running out of time on...
Red shiners and Bluntnose has exploded beyond anything I could have imagined, my 18 SMB cost me about 800$ to get my hands on the purest strain of Tennessee SMB I could find after some DNA work but it'll pay off in the long-haul. All of my females are 16-18" Dale Hollow smallies and I'm hand feeding 2-3" BG to those, mixed with 25-30 good sized craws a week and (interestingly) they love BF tadpoles.
Rusty, circulation is provided by a parallel garden hose shooting volume and pressure spray. Nedoc sent me some video of how his SMB were reacting and it flat out works to bring smallies in to hit anything that hits the water including Optimal bass pellets. The smb breeder pond is the only one I'm doing that with right now but I think I'll be setting up the smallie growout pond to do the same. I thought I might have to do this to get reds to spawn properly but they do just fine on gravel, rock, weeds, wild millet-doesn't seem to matter.

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Snipe #539878 09/17/21 10:39 PM
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Congrats on getting all of the work done that you are reporting in your update!

Sorry about the overhead doors being on backorder. Stapling a big plastic drop cloth on the exterior door frame and another on the interior frame should help you retain some heat. Maybe that will be enough to get by with a shop heater running since you will almost certainly have a few hard freezes by mid-November.

What are your warming parameters on the well water? (Current temperature, water rate, and target temperature). Surely the PB crew can spitball some ideas!

Are you looking more for "poor-boy" solutions like a DIY solar pool heater, or considering spending significant money for fool-proof system like a natural gas fired heat exchanger with thermostat?

Snipe #539879 09/17/21 11:21 PM
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Immediate thought that came to mind was a whole house on demand water heater.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Snipe #539882 09/18/21 09:41 AM
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John.
As one who has several years keeping Tilapia warm enough to survive winters, PM me if you would like any of my thoughts. I don't want to hijack your thread.


Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
Snipe #541431 11/17/21 02:01 AM
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Overhead doors officially installed.. 1 check of 3,498 left.
Things I've learned over the last 6 months...
#1, If you think it's easy... strongly reconsider.
#2, If you think you can save them all... strongly reconsider.
#3, If you plan to raise 3 species, build 27 ponds.
#4, When planning a building layout before construction, draw it out, double the size then build 3 more buildings the same size.
#5, when you hear someone complain about the price of fish, just laugh, obviously they've never done it.
#5A, when you hear someone complain about the price of fish, hang up...
#6, when all else fails and it seems like the end is near, tune in to PondBossLive on FB Wed nights and let Bob rekindle what started it all in the first place.
#7, if you think it's easy... I got news for ya!

Not to be a poop, but I bit off WAY MORE than I could handle. It is coming together piece by piece and I've lost 132lbs (not really-gained 6), my wife has helped with this venture so much she can now sex SMB very effectively and is no longer afraid to thumb-lock a walleye. I had no idea what I was getting into.. I've hauled eggs to state hatcheries for 31 years, seen every contraption built to propagate fish and yet I find I continue to find a way to pay (as Lusk says...) the "dumb tax"..
A 1-man show requires many supporting actors, and therefor if you find yourself alone the show is over with. :-))
Like a bull, I charge on forward!
See ya tomorrow TJ!

Last edited by Snipe; 11/17/21 02:16 AM.
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Snipe #541438 11/17/21 11:01 AM
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Snipe,

That may be one of the most enlightening posts I have EVER read on Pond Boss!

Hopefully, in a few years, you will be able to look back at that period of chaos, and fondly remember it as "quality time" that you got to spend with your wife.

Good luck on your new projects this winter.

Snipe #541439 11/17/21 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Snipe
Overhead doors officially installed.. 1 check of 3,498 left.
Things I've learned over the last 6 months...
#1, If you think it's easy... strongly reconsider.
#2, If you think you can save them all... strongly reconsider.
#3, If you plan to raise 3 species, build 27 ponds.
#4, When planning a building layout before construction, draw it out, double the size then build 3 more buildings the same size.
#5, when you hear someone complain about the price of fish, just laugh, obviously they've never done it.
#5A, when you hear someone complain about the price of fish, hang up...
#6, when all else fails and it seems like the end is near, tune in to PondBossLive on FB Wed nights and let Bob rekindle what started it all in the first place.
#7, if you think it's easy... I got news for ya!

Not to be a poop, but I bit off WAY MORE than I could handle. It is coming together piece by piece and I've lost 132lbs (not really-gained 6), my wife has helped with this venture so much she can now sex SMB very effectively and is no longer afraid to thumb-lock a walleye. I had no idea what I was getting into.. I've hauled eggs to state hatcheries for 31 years, seen every contraption built to propagate fish and yet I find I continue to find a way to pay (as Lusk says...) the "dumb tax"..
A 1-man show requires many supporting actors, and therefor if you find yourself alone the show is over with. :-))
Like a bull, I charge on forward!
See ya tomorrow TJ!

Snipe, I hate to say it, but I love it! The things you have learned list is great. After it all we somehow still love it. It's a sickness.


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Snipe #541440 11/17/21 11:28 AM
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Kenny,

You are catching up!


Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
Snipe #542514 01/01/22 06:09 PM
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Hey all, Happy New Year!
Just another boring update, but I feel like I've abandoned this place as of late!
I've been heavily involved in trying to play catchup to be ready for SMB tank spawning and I'm 30-45 days behind.
I have spent a massive amount of time with our Black Bass experts with the state and once again, what I know about WAE means nothing... :-))
First issue that had to be addressed was tank color-yes, Tank color.. An 11 year study showed the blue tanks to cause higher pheromone levels than any other color tested!! So... why are "most" aquaculture tanks molded in blue?? As it turns out, this changes with the species, who knew??
The challenge has been finding a paint that sticks to polyethylene and is not toxic. That hurdle is crossed-finally.
Filtration was another issue of concern and after expecting to use sand filtration I found that is not really a good thing either with high solids, so... The filter media I settled on is a high-tech, high flow media that does not compact under any circumstances yet clears water very well and supports about 200 times the bacteria that sand/gravel will.
Best case would have been to have all breeders inside in October but due to many roadblocks and shipping issues, I'll be looking at possibly mid January depending on weather.
My filtration system rolls total capacity once ever 2 hrs and goes through 2 UV sterilizers before returning to tanks.
My Water heater is capable of raising temp at a rate of 1 deg per hour and is controlled by digital control pad setting and timer. This should allow a nice 1 deg per day change if required, or 3-4 degs if I want. This has been tested already so I got that much figured out.
Feed tank is 5.5' X 12.5' and 20" deep. I totally redone this fiberglass tank and finished it out with epoxy paint, 2 new belt feeders and 4 divisions for sorting fast/slow growers. Test #1 for feed tank is going to be the hatching tank for YP ribbons placed on spawning mats.
Racks are made to hold 12 spawning mats inside Feed/hatching tank.
The majority of what I'm setting up is for SMB... Yes, it can be used for others but I cannot begin to understand the complexity involved in a multi-species, high reproduction facility..
I went to the trouble of fin clipping for DNA testing and chose to cull 1 fish that didn't line up with my target DNA so I felt pretty darn good about that considering the money spent and after probably close to 45 phone calls throughout the USA, 1 fish farm confirmed they knew what Majority DNA of their stock was and this is a bit different than LMB. There are 4 variations that are recognized in SMB as separate SUB species. My DNA matches closely to that of the world record variant, which means nothing other than potential and the 2 year growth rate is slightly better than the more southern relatives-opposite of what one would think.
All in all, it's been a huge challenge, it's- so far-rewarding and very humbling in realizing how much is yet to be learned about this one species.
Anyone ever comes through this way, I'll sure put ya to work!

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Snipe #542516 01/01/22 06:30 PM
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I know it's been a long road, but at least the end of the tunnel is in sight. That's good news!!!


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Snipe #542523 01/01/22 11:51 PM
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Snipe,

Congrats on keeping the ball rolling on your big projects.

(However, in your case, it might be the giant boulder from Indiana Jones, rather than just a ball.)

Thanks for the updates. I think I learn at least one new thing from every post.

Who knew that tank color matters for pheromone levels?

It is about time to repaint our bedroom. Did that study happen to mention which color is best for human pheromone levels? wink

I always figure if I don't "see" you in the PB Forum, then you are probably busy making your fish happy!

Hope you and all of your fishies have a good 2022!

Last edited by FishinRod; 01/01/22 11:53 PM.
Snipe #542530 01/02/22 11:36 AM
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Interesting and very informative thread, like Rod suggested, Im thinking of repainting the bedroom whether it needs it or not.
wishing you the best of luck in your endeavors, the supply chain issues make life more difficult but glad you got your garage doors in finally. hopefully the wonderful warmer then usual weather we experienced here in MO all the way to the end of Dec, 2 days ago, extended your way and made things a little bit easier for you and to keep up with. we were on pace to have the second warmest Dec on record, topped only by Dec 1889, I guess they had global warming back then too. Good Luck!


All the really good ideas I've ever had came to me while I was milking a cow.
Snipe #542570 01/03/22 09:06 PM
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Kenny,
Once you've got it in place and it works...you've got the template. Add experience and you've got a process. Grow some fish and you have product. Add customers and you have a business!
It will be worth it!
There is a big demand out there.


Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...
Snipe #542571 01/03/22 09:30 PM
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Snipe - Really glad to hear you are making good progress and learning more toward your goal of producing high quality SMB. As Lusk says there is a big demand and very good market potential for those fish. Looking forward to hearing more updates. Keep up the great effort in 2022 and some good fortune will help with the goals.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/03/22 09:32 PM.

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