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Re: New Venture!
Snipe #528940 12/16/20 10:08 PM
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Congrats Snipe!


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Re: New Venture!
Snipe #528941 12/16/20 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Snipe
This afternoon I met with GMD4 board in executive session and after 2-1/2hrs they decided the industrial permit will be issued on the basis of no provisions being included in the LEMA allocations to say it can't be done.
Not going to lie, I've spent the last 2 weeks prepping for what I knew might not be possible in a IGUCA (Intensive groundwater unit control area). It took the Lawyer setting in to explain they could not help but allow my request because the language was not written in to the LEMA program.
I got it, it's mine permanently but will never be granted again in a LEMA district.
I got lucky but it's done.

WOHOO!!!!!!!!! Congrats!!!


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: New Venture!
Snipe #528943 12/17/20 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Snipe
This afternoon I met with GMD4 board in executive session and after 2-1/2hrs they decided the industrial permit will be issued ...

This is great news. Congratulations!

Re: New Venture!
Snipe #528964 12/17/20 11:59 AM
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Send them a thank you note !
















Re: New Venture!
Snipe #528972 12/17/20 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Snipe
This afternoon I met with GMD4 board in executive session and after 2-1/2hrs they decided the industrial permit will be issued on the basis of no provisions being included in the LEMA allocations to say it can't be done.
Not going to lie, I've spent the last 2 weeks prepping for what I knew might not be possible in a IGUCA (Intensive groundwater unit control area). It took the Lawyer setting in to explain they could not help but allow my request because the language was not written in to the LEMA program.
I got it, it's mine permanently but will never be granted again in a LEMA district.
I got lucky but it's done.


Congrats Kenny - let's start digging!


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529729 01/16/21 08:45 PM
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Just a quick update on my progress here.. First, I gotta say thanks to Bob Lusk for allowing a link to my new site in my signature and looks like I'll be doing some business with Lusk as he also has a couple of tanks I need so Had to give thanks for that! Great guy he is..
I got word that I will be put in a 5 year "proof period" on my water use. Basically what happens is beings I was given 15 ac ft of water for this, If for example, my highest annual use is 9 acre ft, then 9 ac ft becomes my new water right, so I was advised to pump 15 ac ft my first year reqardless of whether I need it or not to "proof" the requirement.
I don't like that so I elected to amend my application to add 2 more ponds/cells to my existing application so I'm not just waisting that water.. I can fill in what I don't continue to use.
Thanks to a suggestion from Bob, I've made contact with an apparently little known source of a very highly guarded genetic line of true, Kentucky strain SMB, been looking for this for years.
So.. in order to get this all started, the first year has to be on a temporary permit guarded by the guarantee that my application is approved, which is very weired in how this all works but I'm ready to dig, finally.
Engineering the plumbing for all of this has been a challenge as has looking forward at fish feeders and power being supplied from A to B. The newest challenge is aeration to all of the new cells (Highflyer, I need you buddy!).
Can't imagine the "unforeseen" items I haven't accounted for yet. :-))

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Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529731 01/16/21 10:15 PM
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It's all coming together. Great news Ken and great website too!

Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529737 01/17/21 04:00 PM
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Dude this is awesome.

It is so frustrating trying to find a place to purchase fish to stock a pond in central florida I'm thinking of doing some fish selling myself in a year or two. I just now found a Shiner/Minnow supplier still can't find a local bluegill or LMB suplier.

For now gonna enjoy the lake I just bought and daydream about turning some of the land into private grow out ponds.



If you don't mind a slight hijack.
I've a question for you and everyone else around.
How much would you pay for a "trophy" fish, let's say a LMB over 5LBS.


Im going to ask a lot of questions, but only because I'm clueless
Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529741 01/17/21 08:41 PM
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If you don't mind a slight hijack.
I've a question for you and everyone else around.
How much would you pay for a "trophy" fish, let's say a LMB over 5LBS.


That would be dependent on genetics and at that, a 5lb LMB isn't going to be cheap, probably a 100$+ or more.
I've never search for or tried to purchase anything like that but generally larger fish are by the pound.

Re: New Venture!
RAH #529751 01/18/21 06:52 AM
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I completely agree with you .I believe that it is lake chubsucker that should be found in your pond, this confirms the demand in the market.

Last edited by LouisStewart; 01/18/21 06:53 AM.
Re: New Venture!
LouisStewart #529755 01/18/21 08:41 AM
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I moved a few LCS from my 2nd pond to my 3rd pond which only has FHM in it. Not sure if they spawned yet, but at least they don't have any predatory fish to worry about yet. Plant life has been establishing very slowly in the clay pond bottom. Even a lotus is spreading only slowly. Eventually, leaves from nearby trees will increase its fertility, but the only blow in with a strong southern wind. Still searching for a blue cat supplier for Indiana.

Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529760 01/18/21 10:50 AM
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Quote
How much would you pay for a "trophy" fish, let's say a LMB over 5LBS.

Here is the value or cost to produce a 5 pound bass. New information available indicates that to grow EACH pound of bass it takes more than 10 pounds of forage fish; more like 20 to 30 pounds of forage fish to grow each pound of predator (Beasley PBoss Mag Sep-Oct 2020). . So for average I will use 25 pounds of forage fish to grow one pound of LMB. Fathead minnows (FHM) cost around $12 per pound. Thus 5lb bass X 25 lbs of FHM = 125 lbs of FHM needed to grow this 5lb bass = $1500.00. If we use the old standard 10lbs of forage for each pound of bass then the amount of FHM would be 50lbs of FHM X $12lb = $600.00 for the 5 lb LMbass.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/18/21 10:57 AM.

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Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529763 01/18/21 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Snipe
If you don't mind a slight hijack.
I've a question for you and everyone else around.
How much would you pay for a "trophy" fish, let's say a LMB over 5LBS.


That would be dependent on genetics and at that, a 5lb LMB isn't going to be cheap, probably a 100$+ or more.
I've never search for or tried to purchase anything like that but generally larger fish are by the pound.

CityDad, just to put some cost perspective and possible time table for raising "trophy" LMB...

These were 5" to 6" LMB (20 total), and were added on July 9, 2015 to my hatchery pond. The pond had an existing Population of CNBG of various sizes, and 30# of FHM's were added. Initial forage cost was $300.
[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

50# of late season 2" to 4" tilapia were added. For my 1/4 acre hatchery pond, that works out to 200# per acre. Tilapia cost was $500.

118 days later.
[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

LMB were pulled at 2# to 2.5#. The LMB were pulled in January for 2 reasons. 1) They were grown to be survivable when added to my big pond, and I wanted them stocked and settled in before spawning season started. 2), No readily available properly sized forage would be available for several more months. So I was halfway to 5#, and I'd spent $800 to feed 20 LMB for a little more than 6 months. That's $40 per LMB, and still a ways to go to hit 5#.

189 days later.
[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

Attached Files
LSL LMB - 07-09-2015.jpg (35.28 KB, 299 downloads)
LSL LMB - 01-14-2016.jpg (41.93 KB, 296 downloads)
LSL LMB - 11-04-2015.jpg (66.9 KB, 295 downloads)
Last edited by FireIsHot; 01/18/21 02:01 PM.

AL
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Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529765 01/18/21 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Snipe
If you don't mind a slight hijack.
I've a question for you and everyone else around.
How much would you pay for a "trophy" fish, let's say a LMB over 5LBS.


That would be dependent on genetics and at that, a 5lb LMB isn't going to be cheap, probably a 100$+ or more.
I've never search for or tried to purchase anything like that but generally larger fish are by the pound.

I'd say at least $50/lb considering the years of time, effort, and resources tied into a 2-3 YO LMB for a small hatchery operation. I think Cabelas and BPS pays significantly more than that for their aquarium fish.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529767 01/18/21 06:49 PM
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FirelsHot, What genetic line are those?? #2 and 3 have some eye-popping characteristics that really stand out as different to me.

Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529774 01/19/21 12:13 AM
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FIH, VERY pretty fish!!


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529776 01/19/21 06:14 AM
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Great job Al. I have seen simular my first year of my pond. I called them jumpers because not all of my lmb sampled had that kind of growth which was 3lbs from a 2" fry in 10 months while other lmb were at 13" and a little over a pound? Did you see the same thing with your grow out pond? If that's the case, then I would think cost for a 5lb'er might be even more. I would also expect to see maybe half of those lmb are males and may not ever grow to 5lb's.

Last edited by TGW1; 01/19/21 06:17 AM.

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Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529777 01/19/21 06:18 AM
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Kenny, they are Lone Star Legacy LMB from Overton's, but back then they were named Camelot Bells. They're 100% pure Florida's, that were breed for growth rate and aggressiveness. They do look a little different than most LMB, but I'll let the guys that stocked more of them pass on all the marking details. I got them because I desperately needed some new genetics in my aging big pond, and I'll probably get some more this year.


AL
Re: New Venture!
TGW1 #529778 01/19/21 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by TGW1
Great job Al. I have seen simular my first year of my pond. I called them jumpers because not all of my lmb sampled had that kind of growth which was 3lbs from a 2" fry in 10 months while other lmb were at 13" and a little over a pound? Did you see the same thing with your grow out pond? If that's the case, then I would think cost for a 5lb'er might be even more. I would also expect to see maybe half of those lmb are males and may not ever grow to 5lb's.

Tracy, there were a few smaller LMB, and half of them being males is probably true.


AL
Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529779 01/19/21 08:08 AM
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I did a *great* job hijacking this thread!

Whoops! Cool information though.

What did you do/are you doing to 'market research' and determine what to grow out and bring to market?


Im going to ask a lot of questions, but only because I'm clueless
Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529909 01/21/21 03:03 PM
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Hello.

If you want your Smallmouth bass fry to be as big as possible in the fall.

In addition to the pellets, you can give them Fathead minnows larvae from your forage pond.

As soon as your Bass fry will have about 1 1/2 inche at the end of June

With a larvae trap, there are picture here somewhere.

A+

Re: New Venture!
CityDad #529915 01/21/21 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CityDad
I did a *great* job hijacking this thread!

Whoops! Cool information though.

What did you do/are you doing to 'market research' and determine what to grow out and bring to market?
As I've been brokering fish for years, buying from other fish farms, I've seen a few "Gaps" that need filling. Some are much bigger than others. I'm not going to provide huge numbers but what I can provide will be Known genetics, not trying to get all scientific but I feel it's important to be able to answer the question of heritage.

Re: New Venture!
FireIsHot #529918 01/21/21 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by FireIsHot
Kenny, they are Lone Star Legacy LMB from Overton's, but back then they were named Camelot Bells. They're 100% pure Florida's, that were breed for growth rate and aggressiveness. They do look a little different than most LMB, but I'll let the guys that stocked more of them pass on all the marking details. I got them because I desperately needed some new genetics in my aging big pond, and I'll probably get some more this year.
That's very cool. I don't know that I've ever seen a FLMB. They tried some in the 80's in a very deep central Kansas Res but I don't believe they ever made it very far. They stocked fish around 3lbs and I think the idea was to see if they could get some crossing but the project was never really proven. Your second pic-besides the molting pattern standing out-the pointed tips of caudal fin are very interesting to me, Beautiful fish for sure! Thanks for sharing the pics.

Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529920 01/21/21 09:55 PM
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You guys that posted above were very close on cost per pound. The supplier I am obtaining my SMB from figure 30$/lb on their fish-that's cost to get them to a pound, I didn't ask what they sell for so I was WAY off at 100$ for a 5lb fish-and I get it.

Re: New Venture!
Snipe #529924 01/22/21 08:18 AM
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Al's description of what it takes to grow LMB on forage is an accurate one. All of the costs described are costs of opportunity and so they are costs that a formal fish hatchery must consider if they are going to grow forage fed LMB in advanced or adult sizes. Is easy to understand why a fish hatchery doesn't want to take on the risk of growing large LMB on forage. They would like to help their customers do it which means they will never have to justify to you why a large LMB grown on forage is priced the way it must be.

Generally a private fish hatchery (DOWs are exceptions) won't do this and the fish in advanced sizes that you purchase will have been primarily supported or almost entirely supported by feed. Depending on the density in the brood fish carrying ponds, even the very large adults can be supported substantially with feed. When a fish hatchery sells a large LMB, they are simply managing their brood stock and the price charged can be substantially less than what they have in the fish. The fish would otherwise destroyed at no income at all so it makes sense to sell it for a price a consumer will readily pay. Brood fish pay their way by producing seed and that crop justifies their maintenance.

IMHO, the value is much greater for LMB of equivalent size and of equivalent age when grown entirely on forage instead of a high proportion of feed. The difference in the cost to grow them to that size should be all the explanation one needs (forage fed LMB cost much more) but there are many other reasons I'll let everyone give consideration to. Al you did awesome growing those bass and I think they were worth every bit of your effort and investment.

Last edited by jpsdad; 01/22/21 08:20 AM.
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