Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain GSH in my trout pond? Growth concerns

I am concerned I am entering no man's land as far as forage for my growing trout. I am considering adding GSH in Spring 2021, but have my concerns. Here's the problem:

Assuming my trout survive this winter, I am expecting them to be in the 3-4lb range in 2021. The bulk of my food chain is fathead minnows, leeches and scuds. In the past, I have always had massive growth gains year over year and never had a worry. Now I am looking at possibly 3-4lb fish and wondering if the days of amazing growth are going to slow with such small forage items. It would not be an issue if the Brook Trout had been reproducing. So far there is no proof of reproduction so I am wondering what to do. GSH seem like the perfect fit size wise, etc. HOWEVER, Bill Cody posted one time that the ONLY time he had ever seen GSH become a problem was in a trout pond. I certainly don't want to introduce a problem. I also have winter DO issues that are not 100% solved - do not need to complicate that.

On the flip side maybe my forage situation will be fine?? Fly fisherman regularly catch huge trout on flies so small you can barely get the line through the eye of the hook. Maybe 3-4lb trout will have no issues filling up on scuds??? I have a hard time believing big fish would not grow faster eating 6" GSH.

If I decide to go with the GSH, I plan on ordering a pile of 4" and stocking them as soon as ice is off. I am aware of the parasite that limits reproductiveness.

Very interested in y'all's thoughts!!

My advice is not to do this. I think they will take more forage away from your trout than they will provide. It's an amazing fishery already but it could be improved, using the existing forage base, simply by improving habitat. You are thinking along the right path in that more fish prey is what the bigger trout but GSH would be "almost as bad" as BG in your magnificent trout fishery.

The FHM, since they are already there, and because they are sustaining a population, seem to be the best option for increasing forage. What they might need to sustain a larger population is some improved habitat. Brush and spawning habitat seem a really good possibility to grow more forage. Also feeding them (FHM) would increase weights to. Feeding the FHM could be accomplished with a sinking feed near the shore where your trout would not intercept it. This would also feed the scuds. Or instead of forage, you could feed the trout but this could shorten trout lives I think.

As great as the fishery is, it has a limit. This will be evident as a significant slowing of the weight gained/individual. If you have a good sense of number and weights of trout, you can make a good estimate (not exact) of the standing weight. Were it me, when this happens, I would work with this number and plan a ladder/harvest system to work with that standing weight using growth rates already witnessed. More fish annually in the ladder will result in many good size fish and shorter time in the lake before harvest. Fewer fish annually in the ladder will result in larger fish that are harvested later or allowed to die in the lake. If you push it too far with feed, there could be consequences, but habitat improvement should not interfere with summering or wintering survival at all.

Thanks for the input. One of the problems with feeding at our location is bears. Lots of bears and huge bears. A feeder would be destroyed in short order. On top of bears, the remoteness and how little time I am actually there would be a problem. I have a TON of FHM. There is not a shortage. I just figured their 2.5" size would be a problem when trying to feed 4lb fish. Is it not? If that is not a concern then I should be good to go.

I add tons of riprap and boulders per year and will probably be doing so for the rest of my life. Also been looking at the Mossback stuff. I do NOT want to add a single thing that will add more nutrients.

I am reminded of the waters below Table Rock Lake in Missouri. The creature supporting this trout fishery is assellus aquaticus or water sowbug. It's amazing the size that trout grow to and the abundance of their staple prey. Eventually these trout become monsters (world record sizes) that are capable of eating stocker sized trout. But to become a fish capable of eating the trout they have to grow up on sowbugs. They are small, but they cannot avoid the trout and the trout eat their fill of them. There is something to say for abundant, easy to capture, small prey. Blue whales, the largest of all our creatures, is supported mostly by krill which individually are very small.

Rather than tell you what you need, I will instead caution you about what you want to avoid. In particular, you do not want to introduce anything that might heavily compete with trout for prey that are the size of your scuds or larger. Large GSH will consume your scuds and FHM fry. They could grow fat on them in the same way your trout grow fat on them. The growth of your fish seem to be approaching what can only be described as maximum potential growth. This tells me two things. There is lots of prey and the trout standing weight is less than the lake could support. Unless mortality intervenes, they will continue to grow like this (I think) until they reach the lakes limit of carrying capacity.

Agree on adding cover for the increased reproduction of FHM instead of introducing a new species.

I would try a cheap feeder. Put a solar electric fence around it that has a battery so it'll be live at night. They use a solar electric fence around campsites in bear country to keep the bears from destroying the camp. Brown bear territory, so they are larger than the black bears you have.

Jpsdad - this makes a bunch of sense to me. Thank you. If someone forced me to say how many Trout are currently in the lake I'd guess 100 total. FAR from capacity.

Scott - I just do not want to go the feeder route. Trying to keep things as "natural" as possible.

I think the main thing for me to solve after survival is reproduction. Really don't want to have to ladder stock, but will if I must.

Good advice - +1

Heard loud and clear. NO GSH.

From the perspective of a self-sustaining ecosystem, reproduction of the predators will complete the picture. On the other hand, from a fishery perspective, predators that reproduce require a lot of population control ... typically. As the manager of a fishery, you might count yourself blessed that you can control the numbers of predators such that their growth is high and predictable. The time and effort required to control predator numbers is a cost too. IMHO, when value is placed on the cost of controlling predator population ... the highest value, most predictable results, and greatest efficiency of prey use come from the put & take predator scenario.

Down here in the flat lands, its just more complicated with our warm water fishes that are right at home reproducing in ponds. For us, to be supplied predators that won't reproduce in the species desired is a non-starter. To me, the situation you have is truly ideal from a fisheries perspective. Abundant forage and the ability to design the predator population into the fishing experience you want most. So long as it is not in conflict with the water's capacity to carry (probably food limited with your aeration), you cannot fail in achieving it.

Thanks again Jpsdad. That is a perspective I have NEVER even considered!

You're welcome of course