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#527539 11/12/20 04:04 PM
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Took this buck Thursday evening Nov. 5th. Not a monster by any means but I hadn't been bowhunting in 5 years. Took the picture from my stand about a half hour before and thought how nice it was to just be enjoying the view.

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"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

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R&R #527540 11/12/20 04:18 PM
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That is a great view! Congratulations on the buck.


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R&R #527544 11/12/20 05:38 PM
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Nice view, nice buck, our gun season opens this Sat, I usually don't have the time or patience to bow hunt, would like to try it someday but haven't yet.


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Great view, great deer. Congrats! I've got my eye on a big one but he didn't get that big by being stupid. I've never gotten any pictures of him during the day. I'm guessing he's 5 1/2 years old, really big body, mainframe 10 pt with a kicker on each of the G2's.

It will be interesting out there this weekend with the wind that they are calling for.

I also had a picture from behind the house here of a doe with a spotted fawn, and the picture was taken Wednesday.


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R&R #527572 11/13/20 09:11 AM
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WE have some whoppers on game cam pics. Of course, haven't seen them since the rifle season started and I haven't had that much time to hunt..


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
R&R #527575 11/13/20 09:56 AM
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Dave....looks like a healthy year....this week

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Fishing has never been about the fish....

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R&R #527579 11/13/20 10:29 AM
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Nice buck, and a beautiful view from your stand. Good job.

My wife loves to hunt deer. Opening morning last year she filled three tags in ~30 minutes.
Her old stand was getting to the point that it wasn't safe, so I built a new one for her last month.

She seems happy with it. Tomorrow is the opener here. Hopefully she'll get some blood on it.

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esshup #527580 11/13/20 10:38 AM
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Thanks Guys. Yeah esshup I have trail cam pic's of a couple of maybe 140-150" deer. But I had a staring contest with this buck that morning(And lost ,of course) So when he came back that evening and presented a broadside quartering away at 19 yards i succumbed to the urge. No regrets very enjoyable evening on stand.


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Augie #527581 11/13/20 10:41 AM
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That's awesome Augie!!! My kind of stand. GOOD LUCK to all this weekend. (Lot of gun openers this weekend) Be safe.


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

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R&R #527583 11/13/20 05:04 PM
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Got this guy in CO this year. My best muley yet.

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R&R #527584 11/13/20 09:04 PM
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We have so much CWD in the herd here, that a lot of people won't eat them any more. Our dog vet told me about six years ago that he would no longer eat deer due to CWD.

R&R #527594 11/14/20 02:20 PM
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Twisted!

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R&R #527641 11/16/20 10:02 AM
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A couple of pics from DD1. Apparently he had a nice weekend.

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Last edited by FireIsHot; 11/16/20 05:15 PM.

AL

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That's a beauty!

R&R #527645 11/16/20 10:49 AM
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The wife stayed warm and dry in her new condo stand on a windy and wet opening morning. Too bad for Mr. Buck.

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Wbuffetjr Good looking Mule Dear!!!!! Congats


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John , Luckily have not heard much talk of CWD around hear yet. I'm afraid its just a matter of time though.


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

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RAH #527648 11/16/20 01:54 PM
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RAH , That is a messed up rack for sure. Pretty cool that you caught him on trail camera beforehand. You happy with your Reconyx Cameras?


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DD1 , Two really nice dear.


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

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Augie #527650 11/16/20 01:57 PM
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Congrats to your wife Augie. That windy wet weather didn't arrive hear until Sunday and it was brutally windy. I bet she was happy to have that shack.


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

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Had one Reconyx trailcam develop a bad motherboard. Sent it in and they repaired at no cost. This was my only issue with either of my 2 cameras over several years. The other brands that I have had were disposable items. I do recommend Reconyx as my judge of a company is how they behave when something goes wrong (mechanical things break). I recommend Ravin crossbows over TenPoint for the same reason with the latter having a limb delaminate and the service guy saying that I had to buy new cables and string before he could repair it even though the bow had only been used a couple seasons. I also like the Ravin engineering better, as well as the hair-splitting accuracy.

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Originally Posted by RAH
Had one Reconyx trailcam develop a bad motherboard. Sent it in and they repaired at no cost. This was my only issue with either of my 2 cameras over several years. The other brands that I have had were disposable items. I do recommend Reconyx as my judge of a company is how they behave when something goes wrong (mechanical things break). I recommend Ravin crossbows over TenPoint for the same reason with the latter having a limb delaminate and the service guy saying that I had to buy new cables and string before he could repair it even though the bow had only been used a couple seasons. I also like the Ravin engineering better, as well as the hair-splitting accuracy.

I'll second that on Reconyx! I will add that it is my ONLY cam that doesn't regularly catch only a nose or butt. Somehow it's the only cam that ALWAYS gets the entire animal in at least one shot. They're expensive and it sucks, but I'm at the point now I'll just not buy another cam before I buy another brand.


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I have heard a lot a good things about the Reconyx. Other than price. And I have had my share of throw away cameras for sure. I've had pretty good luck with Bushnell's got one on it's fifth year and the battery's last an entire year.But wanting to try out a reconyx for sure. Thanks.


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The young guy in the pics with me is Josh Coronado. He showed up with my Grandson over 10 years ago, They are now 21 and Josh is one heckuva hunter. My deer had more mass and points but his was wider by an inch and taller. Both had huge bodies.

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 11/16/20 04:05 PM.

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Zep, they are all healthy this year and I don't know what they are eating. Last we had a booming acorn drop and so saw virtually no deer so not much to compare. This year their bodies are much larger with zero acorns. Forbs, yes there are some but they are hitting the corn hard. That is, when the pigs don't get there first. And, I am butt deep in pigs and am rooting for the coyotes to get the small ones. I have at least 3 separate bunches that run the deer off from the feeders plus all the lone boars. When deer season ends pig season will begin in a big way for me. I shot one boar the other day that ran off and I didn't even bother looking for it. My Grandson and Josh trapped about 20 a couple of months ago and they were loaded with ticks. I spray down when I leave the house..

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 11/16/20 06:04 PM.

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
R&R #527671 11/16/20 10:40 PM
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I bought my first Hyperfire this year. For some reason even though they say they will accept a 512gb card I can't get it to work with a 128gb card but it works just fine with an 8 gb card. I purchased two 32gb cards, just haven't had time to get the cam back out again.

You have to use Lithium batteries in them. 12 AA's.

I have 4-5 Cuddeback Cams and while they are working good, a few seem to chew through batteries quicker than others and one keeps changing the time of day on me. I AM getting 300-400 pics a day on them though. Once a year is up, it costs $100 to get one fixed............ Never noses or just butts, except when the deer is looking right in the camera.

Got a buck and a doe on opening morning, and a busted up 6 point at the State Park Hunt today. Will try for 2 does there tomorrow. The opening morning buck was a 3 1/2 year old 11 point, today's was 1.5 years old.


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R&R #527679 11/17/20 03:49 AM
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Took my 4th doe (out of a group of 4) with my crossbow, so now I am tagged out till muzzleloader (took buck during gun). Our habitat development seems to be keeping our herd healthy. We have had some recent neighboring owners let multiple hunters on their land which will probably take its toll (one with three guys in a 12 acre woods). We have found 2 gut-shot sub-dominant bucks rotting so far this year which is unfortunately a continuation of a pattern that has developed over the last few years since these recent hunters appeared. Coyotes are too full to even eat them. Nothing anybody can do since its all legal. Hopefully, the doe to buck ratio will not get back to where it was a decade ago when trophy buck were rare. Life is still good:)

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Texas implemented a 13 inch minimum a couple of years ago and I think it's paying off. Our biggest challenge is not more deer but less hogs. We need a lot more coyotes to help.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
esshup #527693 11/17/20 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by esshup
........I have 4-5 Cuddeback Cams and while they are working good, a few seem to chew through batteries quicker than others and one keeps changing the time of day on me. I AM getting 300-400 pics a day on them though. Once a year is up, it costs $100 to get one fixed............ Never noses or just butts, except when the deer is looking right in the camera.........

Esshup we have 12 of their linked wireless cams and 3 repeaters all of which have solar panels. You might check into the panels.

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We are MLD and have already filled all our tags. We can still apply for more from the biologist.

This one is still on the hoof. I liked the picture.

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Tbar #527699 11/17/20 03:29 PM
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Cool Pic!!! This has always been one of my favorites. Absent a Boone and Crocket at least.

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"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

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Tbar #527709 11/17/20 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Tbar
Originally Posted by esshup
........I have 4-5 Cuddeback Cams and while they are working good, a few seem to chew through batteries quicker than others and one keeps changing the time of day on me. I AM getting 300-400 pics a day on them though. Once a year is up, it costs $100 to get one fixed............ Never noses or just butts, except when the deer is looking right in the camera.........

Esshup we have 12 of their linked wireless cams and 3 repeaters all of which have solar panels. You might check into the panels.

Thanks!!! I'll check into those. Just fired up the Reconyx and put it out this afternoon. Will check it tomorrow to see how it's aimed. I did the walk test but I'm not a deer.


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R&R #527720 11/18/20 05:45 AM
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Neat pic and nice deer Tbar. I'm going to have to do something like that fence for my 6 feeders to exclude hogs. My place is butt deep in pigs and they run deer off from the feeders.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Originally Posted by esshup
Originally Posted by Tbar
Originally Posted by esshup
........I have 4-5 Cuddeback Cams and while they are working good, a few seem to chew through batteries quicker than others and one keeps changing the time of day on me. I AM getting 300-400 pics a day on them though. Once a year is up, it costs $100 to get one fixed............ Never noses or just butts, except when the deer is looking right in the camera.........

Esshup we have 12 of their linked wireless cams and 3 repeaters all of which have solar panels. You might check into the panels.

Thanks!!! I'll check into those. Just fired up the Reconyx and put it out this afternoon. Will check it tomorrow to see how it's aimed. I did the walk test but I'm not a deer.

Plus one on the cuddeback cuddelink cameras, I have three, the cuddelink cameras did eat the crap out of AA batteries, especially when they were forwarding pictures, but I bought D cell battery pack holders for them and it was a complete game changer for me, three or four months on the batteries so far and they still going strong.

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Last edited by gehajake; 11/18/20 11:53 AM.

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For those of you with the Cuddelink cameras. Do you have the "Cuddelink Cell" tied to it or just the base set up. I really like the idea of not having to make trips around to all of the cameras to retrieve SD cards. Could even use as security. Thanks.


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No Cuddelink system here.


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I tried Cuddeback and it went in the "disposable" bin. Maybe just bad luck,

Last edited by RAH; 11/19/20 06:13 AM. Reason: wording change
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RAH , I had one about 8 years ago and could not keep battery's in it. Seemed to take good pic's but replacing (4)D Cell battery's once a week made me give up on it.


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

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I am no fan of Cuddyback ether. I replace a spot where I had a Moultree with Cuddyback and my picture numbers went way down. I replace it again with the Moultree and number of pics went way back up. Moultree is a much better camera for less money or I think they were cheaper. Reconyx by far the best I have but you have to dig deep in your pocket when buying one.


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I've said this many times. Put 2 cams on a feeder. They seldom agree no matter what kind they are.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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The most expensive things that I have purchased are those that don't function for the purpose that I bought them for. IMO, any amount of money is poorly spent if it ends up being spent for a paperweight (unless you bought it to be a paperweight).

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Originally Posted by RAH
Took my 4th doe (out of a group of 4) with my crossbow, so now I am tagged out till muzzleloader (took buck during gun). Our habitat development seems to be keeping our herd healthy.

My brother, nephew, and uncle went out today to our Kansas farm for the opening of rifle season. I just got a text that they were shut out. All of the deer were moving through heavy cover, even though I have lots of open ground to traverse as the deer move from feeders to water to deep cover.

I keep raising Ninja Deer! I obviously lack your deer management skills.

Since it works so well for fish, do you think I need to start pellet feeding my deer by hand? laugh

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I think that our mix of heavy cover (multiple thick blocks of conifers and scrub thickets), open area (prairie areas and abandoned fields), and woodland keep multiple areas full of does and allow multiple mature bucks to roam our place. Things may go south in the future though, since a group of 3 hunters have been given access to a neighboring 12 acre woods and have established a pattern of gut shooting bucks which later turn up dead and rotting. Its all legal but not good. That's just how things go sometimes...

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Originally Posted by RAH
I think that our mix of heavy cover (multiple thick blocks of conifers and scrub thickets), open area (prairie areas and abandoned fields), and woodland keep multiple areas full of does and allow multiple mature bucks to roam our place.

I have similar cover (or at least the Kansas version). I still think my deer population is a little lower than it should be.

Do you have any food plots on your place? I have started hybrid oaks and pear trees for mast production, but none of the trees are mature. I do not have any food plots and did not know the value of that.

Originally Posted by RAH
Things may go south in the future though, since a group of 3 hunters have been given access to a neighboring 12 acre woods and have established a pattern of gut shooting bucks which later turn up dead and rotting.

How do they miss the deer vitals in a 12-acre wood? Are these rifle or bow guys? If rifle guys, you need to stick a free day pass to a shooting range in their Christmas stockings!

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We have so many does to buck ratio that large number of does don’t get bred. No one around here believes in taking does only bucks and young ones at that.... they won’t listen to logic and let a 3-1/2 or younger buck get a pass . It’s sad that people won’t manage the herd . There were36 does In the wheat field yesterday evening and 0 bucks

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My deer are fat, but I take my limit on does and the coyotes help lower the overall population. I have taken 4 so far and likely will take my last during muzzleloader. With all the diseases moving into deer herds, I do my best to keep my local herd in check. With multiple bucks being taken out on neighboring properties, I am not sure that I can keep the doe-to-buck ratio in check, but I will do what I can. I don't plant food plots, but my herd is finding plenty of food without it. I have a lot of browse on my place and the thousand or so oaks that we planted years ago should be producing acorns soon (some have already).

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Thanks, RAH.

I am definitely missing something on our farm. One neighbor has moderate cattle grazing on his place - and still has significantly more deer on his land.

We have a lot of forbs in our native tallgrass prairie, but I think I may just have too much grass acreage and not enough quality browse.

They have expanded the antlerless season in Kansas to take more does after January 1st.

Should I do counts by sex on game cams and when in the blind? I have some buddies that would definitely go take a doe to put meat in the freezer. At what ratio of does to bucks would I want to add a little more doe take at the end of the season?

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I am managing for trophy bucks so the ideal ration is supposed to be 2 does per buck which favors the largest bucks fertilizing most of the does. I was getting close before the new hunters joined the foray. They seem to be killing more than allowed (1 buck per year) because they often don't recover their first kill because they run so far without a blood trail. In addition to cover, I think my multiple water sources help keep the deer close. Prairie offers cover, but deer are primarily browsers. They seem to particularly like blackberry canes. I planted turnips a few years back but they never touched them. Deer seem to love turnips on other people's property, but I don't think that my deer ever felt hungry enough to try them. My best cover are the blocks of overgrown spruce which are off limits to people at all times. These provide both shelter and food. I judge my buck-to-doe ratio subjectively based on my sightings in the stand. I get out a lot, and can judge the trends from year to year. We have a large number of does, so I try to max out every year. I also helped a neighboring landowner recover a doe that ran into my place, and helped him with a long drag, and even loaded it on my vehicle and brought it to his place. Was glad that he took it and happy to help him, but it ran a long way before going down. Everybody has this happen occasionally, but it should not be the norm.

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It would be good if there was more volintary management of deer herds. I know of several of us in my area are trying but it is never going to be 100%. Texas does a good job i think through the TP&W where they restrick the taking of bucks if the racks are measured inside the ears and must be a 13" spread. For the most part that puts the bucks in the 3yr age range before they are legal to take. State Biologist are also involved when determining the number of does and bucks that can be taken. This is done by surveying the deer herds. It's not perfect way but i think Texas does a good job and better than many other states. They also do an outstanding job when it comes to the fish that live in the public lakes. Texas has nore trophy bass lakes than any other state. I can think of at least 4 of the best fishing lakes in the USA.

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Originally Posted by RAH
I am managing for trophy bucks so the ideal ration is supposed to be 2 does per buck which favors the largest bucks fertilizing most of the does.

I am pretty sure my place is doe-heavy far beyond that ratio. Even if I add a few "unseen bucks" to my estimate of the number of males.

I was in the tree stand with a daughter two years ago and we had a herd of 13 does walk through during the rut. A huge doe (+250#?) was leading them through the semi-heavy cover. I am not an experienced enough deer hunter to know if a herd of does at that time of year is a common sight.

I expect I need to invite a few more guys out during antlerless season.

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Deer do not normally herd up in those numbers until after the rut in my area. I once had herds of 20 or more does come through, but nothing over a dozen in recent years, and usually fewer. Taking my limit on does each year should have had that effect. Being careful to not mistake a large button for a doe also helps. I have never seen a 250 lb doe. My biggest bucks are over 200 lbs, but most don't go much heavier. I have a scale. My heaviest buck was taken before getting the scale and my wife and I could not get it in the pickup and we were both strong back then. Had to transport it in the frontend loader. It gets heavier each year when I tell the story... Rack is still just over 150" net. Taken at about 5 yds with a bow.

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I assume "deer stories" without a scale are similar to "fish stories" without a scale!

However, my brother took a monster doe a few years back. There were about 30 bucks at the deer processor by the time he delivered it. His was the 3rd largest deer in the room. His meat cuts from the butcher came back at 119#, which I think converts pretty close to 250# on the hoof.

The one I saw a few years later looked similar in size and build. I wish I could figure out which of my does have the genetics to become monster does. I would assume monster does are more likely to birth future monster bucks.

If you can figure out how to tag and release deer to monitor the herd, like we do on fish, please let me know. That would make me a much better game manager! laugh

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I am sure such doe exist, but processers have been known to return more meat than could possibly have come from a given deer. We process our own.

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So you're saying a guy who charges by the pound, might be incentivized to put his thumb on the scale!

The conversion chart I found also had chest girth as another data input. This leads me to another question for you.

Is there any management value in keeping historical data on the girth, hoof weight, and field-dressed weight of your deer?

P.S. Two years ago, at least 50% of the bucks on camera had broken antlers. There were spike bucks with only a stub remaining on one side. There were little 4-point bucks with both antlers damaged. Some of the big 8-point bucks had a large tine broken off.

Do you think this was a nutrition problem? Environmental problem? (I am making one up for example - lots of ticks at the base of their antlers while they were in velvet.) Or a big buck that had tines that were quite effective at "grabbing" on to the antlers of the smaller deer?

Thanks for all of the help RAH! I am more of a quail hunter than a deer hunter.

Rod

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I am no expert in this area. I have tried to remove does and been lucky to take bigger bucks.

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Expert is always a relative term on Pond Boss, considering we have guys with graduate degrees in some of our topics.

You are certainly far more of an expert on deer hunting than I am! As such, I always appreciate advice from people - even when they are just adding their 2 cents worth.

Good luck finishing out your deer season. I think I am going to get out tomorrow with two of my nephews. My brother has three teenage boys to feed, so one of us better put some meat on the table!

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Not an expert but I think that with a higher buck to doe ratio, the bucks will fight more over the territory that the does occupy.

I have a picture of a buck next to a yearling and I estimate his live weight to be over 300#. I shot a buck in a reduction zone this year that field dressed #195 and the other buck looks to be a whole lot bigger. He's (I am estimating) a 5 1/2 year old. No pics of him in the daylight. Neck starts at the bottom of his chest. I think I have a pic on the computer, if I do I'll post it.


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I killed my first buck over 50 years ago and have been studying them ever since. Mama Nature generally tosses a curve ball when I think I have it figured out. Last year we had a massive acorn drop and rarely saw a deer when hunting. They didn't have to move over 6 ft. to fill their belly. I guess there was a rut.

This year, no acorns and the deer are larger and healthier than I've seen in years. I started to plant wheat plots but didn't get rain at the right time. And, just about everything gets rooted up by the hogs.

I and a 21 year old that hunts with me both killed bucks opening morning. Now, it's hog hunting time but even Texas Parks and Wildlife has no idea what to do about them. They showed up on my place about 15 years ago and are increasing exponentially. Sooner or later you guys up North will have 12 months to hunt. And, you will have mixed emotions about it.


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Dave this year we also did not have any acorns due to catapillars early. We have been feeding about 2000#s protein and corn a week plus a five acre wheat food plot that they are putting the demo on. Not looking good for the bucks , they are run down from this long slow rut. They been chasing since late September! The neighbors have mowed down all the 2-1/2, 3-1/2 yo bucks. If they would wait one year then only harvest the 4-1/2 then every year after you could have nice mature bucks..... they just don’t get it

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Originally Posted by Dave Davidson1
I killed my first buck over 50 years ago and have been studying them ever since. Mama Nature generally tosses a curve ball when I think I have it figured out.

I have a buddy that is a good deer hunter. He said to put up more cameras and pattern your deer. There is no pattern that I can discern! I just keep getting curveballs from the deer.

Would your best advice for deer be the same as your best advice for fish?

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine.

I think habitat improvement is the best I can do. I probably need to keep inviting out good deer hunters and getting their advice.

Thanks,
Rod

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Having a mentor was very useful for me. Choosing a mentor is tricky. I was fortune to have one with a wall full of trophy bucks. I know others who will tell you how good they are at hunting along with telling tails of the ones that got away... The best advice that was given to me is that you can't bag a big buck sitting on the couch. Next best advice was that there is no substitute for experience. I think that I honed my skills by hunting with only a bow for a decade before taking up gun hunting. All 5 of my 2020 deer were taken at less than 25 yards (Only the buck was with a gun). Saw deer today (opening of muzzleloader), but none were sure shots. No need to rush my final doe of the season.

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My buddies (that I think are good deer hunters) hunt almost exclusively now with bows. They consider it too easy to bag a deer with a rifle.

They will only take a rifle when they have seen a true trophy buck on camera, where one brief glimpse at long range is the only chance they will get.

I am at the skill/knowledge level where it is still hard work getting the kids (or me) a good clean shot with a rifle.

Therefore - thanks for the advice everyone, and happy hunting!

Rod

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Rod you can pattern deer til close to the rut then everything changes. Takes cameras all over the place, food plots to hold the does in the areas and year round feeders in areas where there is little mast . Winter wheat works well for us as long as we get some rain

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I no longer place trail cams anywhere near where my stands are. It is clear from the sequential pics that they can either see or hear the cameras when they take pictures.

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Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
Winter wheat works well for us as long as we get some rain

We didn't have any winter wheat last year because it was too wet to plant. That certainly might explain why there were more deer on my neighbor's ground than in a typical year.

This year the wheat is a little sparse - because we are too dry!

If we go out with a 3rd person, I will put them in the ground blind by the wheat field and see how the deer are working through there.

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Originally Posted by RAH
It is clear from the sequential pics that they can either see or hear the cameras when they take pictures.

My habit was always to fill the feeders, then swap out SD cards. I read somewhere that was backwards - you can transfer feed odor to your cameras.

I have always done the cameras first since then. Doesn't matter. Still getting lots of pics of deer "posing" for the cameras, deer with ears cocked to listen to the camera, and of course the requisite deer licking the camera shots.

I am starting to move my cameras higher up and farther away from the feeders. I even have one camera set on time lapse. It is nice to have that view.

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I do not feed. Just set the 2 that I have on trails pretty far from my stands so I don't spook them away from where I hunt.

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Originally Posted by RAH
I do not feed.

Is your land "better" for natural deer forage than the surrounding land? I think you have previously mentioned oak trees in the thousands.

Do you attract deer off of your neighbor's properties due to better feeding opportunities? Or are they attracted because you have the best dense cover?

I know of at least one place near me where the deer move over a mile through one narrow route of cover between to safe havens. I think(?) they travel quite far in Kansas during a "normal" week. Further, I don't know if the rut makes them move more or less.

I am asking because I would like to make my place a better deer "magnet" than the surrounding areas.

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I took a 4 pt buck on opening day this year. Dropped where I shot him.

A week or so later I took this nice 6 pt buck. Shot him dead on at 130yds and he jumped and ran like I missed. Found him about 75yds away in woods shot through the heart. Amazing how tough this creatures are.

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Lung shots and heart shots usually run 60-75 yds before they run out of gas. Shoulder shots high in shoulder usually drop, but not always..... they can be tough. I prefer behind shoulder to purge a lot of blood

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Few Oaks on my place are old enough to produce acorns. I think the multiple areas of dense cover along with plenty of watering holes and browse are what attracts the deer. I think it is the oases of wildlands in a sea of row crops that does it. Not just my place, but some of the surrounding ground as well. Over Hunting on some of the surrounding ground appears to push the deer into my place where they are not bothered (in designated places where we never go unless we are following a blood trail). Even our dogs are not allowed in these areas.

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Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
Lung shots and heart shots usually run 60-75 yds before they run out of gas. Shoulder shots high in shoulder usually drop, but not always..... they can be tough. I prefer behind shoulder to purge a lot of blood

Yes - this has been my experience. The ones I've shot through the shoulders don't go more than a few feet.

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Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
Lung shots and heart shots usually run 60-75 yds before they run out of gas. Shoulder shots high in shoulder usually drop, but not always..... they can be tough. I prefer behind shoulder to purge a lot of blood

OR head/neck shots will also shorten the tracking job. I took 3 does from a customers place on Saturday with the muzzleloader between 130 and 167 yds. within 40 minutes of each other. 2 high "shoulder" shots that were behind the scapula but clipped the spine. Both of those deer never took a step. The last shot was right at the base of the ear and out the other side. No tracking with that one either. With the last 2 shots, I could have reloaded and shot the 4th deer because the other 2 were behind it and they never made any noise, just went straight down and never moved. I'm using a 195g Barnes 40 caliber bullet @ 2750 fps in the .45 caliber Savage Muzzleloader.

I shot one deer 2 or 3 years ago in the heart and it never took a step. I was amazed, but guys that I've talked to that used the same bullet reported the same thing. The amount of shock going into the deer is what I think is causing the heart shot to drop them. The biggest piece of the heart that I found was smaller than a golf ball. I was using the Pittman Bullet for that one.

Pittman Aeromax bullet

Now granted that deer was about 80 yds away, and I was shooting the 300grain Aeromax from my Savage Muzzleloader at 2800 fps, and it kills on BOTH ends, but I never expected the deer to drop with that shot. I fully expected it to do the typical 50-100 yd dash before piling up.


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esshup, that savage is the best one ever made. Hard to locate one for sale. I shoot the Barnes when hunting with my BP, These days i set up in my tree blind and just watch the deer as they walk under or around me. Just not sure if i want to clean it or go through all the hassle of it all. But i love watching. I had a doe family bed under me the other day in a pine thicket. I also watched two nice 8 pointers walk under me the other day. One was trailing the first one. Most anyone would have taken the shot, but i just enjoyed watching them pass by. All my life of hunting i would have been proud to shoot either of those two, but today I let those 3 and a half yr olds walk,

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I too let a nice 3.5 yr old walk yesterday, but I already shot my buck this year, so it was easy. He new something was up and stood there staring at me at 10 yards before turning his back and walking on. Will be a shooter in a year or 2 if he makes it. Saw a herd of about 10 does this morning, but they were too far for me to shoot my last deer of the season. Unlike esshup, all my deer were taken at less than 25 yds. this year, even the one taken with the .270 win.

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RAH, if you get them to come in any closer you can just hunt with a pointy stick!

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Well that's my thing

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RAH, this year the deer that I've shot ranged from 25 yds to that 167 on Sat. Depending on the property, the shots could range from 0 feet (straight down) to over double the range of the Savage.

Tracy, the Savage is the best production muzzleloader (IHMO), but they are out of production. If you want a "new" smokeless muzzleloader, go look here: https://www.hankinscustomrifles.com/muzzleloaders/ They are shooting 300+ grain bullets at over 3,000 fps now.

Technology has surpassed the Savage ML now, the weak point is their breech plug and ignition system. Now the ticket is using a regular rifle primer in a piece of brass from say a .308 with a different designed breech plug.

To do one cheaper, get a short action centerfire receiver such as Remington. Swap out the trigger assembly for a good one such as a Jewell. Either send it to Hankins or to Luke at Arrowhead Rifles and have him convert it to a Smokeless Muzzleloader. Do away with the sabots, use full bore sized bullets such as the Pittman Aeromax. If you can legally do so, I would shoot for a .40 caliber. Here in Indiana we have to be .44 cal or bigger so .45 cal is the preferred choice if going to smokeless for distance shooting. Going with a bore sized bullet allows you to push it faster. A muzzlebrake and ear protection while hunting is mandatory to keep your shoulder in one piece and allow you to keep your hearing.

Going with the Rem action will allow you to have a larger barrel dia for the first 5"-8" and that will allow you to shoot the heavier powder charges not risk damaging the gun or you like would happen with the Savage if you shot those powder loads. Max is 70 grains of H-4198 behind a 300g bullet.


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Sounds like that thing gets meat at both ends! Lol

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Do you need a special muzzleloader to use smokeless powder? I do not have a "smokeless muzzleloader".

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Originally Posted by RAH
Do you need a special muzzleloader to use smokeless powder? I do not have a "smokeless muzzleloader".

Yes!! Savage built muzzleloaders specifically for modern rifle powder. There are some conversion barrels to convert certain CVA rifles to smokeless - everything has to be changed. Barrel and breech plug. You cannot use smokeless powder for centerfire rifles in black powder guns - you run the risk of blowing them up.

What I really like about shooting the Savage is not only the extended range that I get, but not having to clean it from the beginning of the season until the season is closed. Heck, I've even left it loaded for about 10 months just to see if there would be any different POI. Not really, POI changed 1" at 100 yds for the first shot, went back to the same POI with the next shot.


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Thank you! If I ever buy another muzzleloader, I will check that out. I also would like the newer style breach plugs to make cleaning easier. Its hard for me to justify a new muzzle loader right now because I usually can only take one doe during this season based on Indiana rules and my typical harvest timing.

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RAH, your county is listed as 2 for bonus antlerless, and that is from the start of archery through the end. So, even with your timing of the harvest, you can shoot 2 does plus whatever buck you want, it doesn't matter what weapon you use.


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I can take 2 does under archery and 2 bonus deer, one of which can be a buck. Since I took my buck with a rifle, I took 4 does during archery. This leaves me one doe that I can take with the muzzleloader. If I took my buck with the bow, then that would leave 3 does during archery, but none could be taken with a rifle. So depending on how I harvest the buck, I can either take a total of 5 or 6 deer. Way too complicated but I confirmed with DNR a few years back.

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We call this one kicker. Going to let a deer like this spread his genes and watch him put on some more mass in the next 1 - 2 years.

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Wow!

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Nice! That’s the way to do it if you can get neighbors onboard

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Nice one. I expect that sucker has already spread is genes quite often.


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Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Thats a nice buck. Hard to age him through these pics. Have u aged this buck?


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Damn thats a nice buck Tbar,! that would take some willpower to let him walk, especially if you are not sure what the neighbor would do, but I agree with your theory!


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RAH, I agree with you.


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Looking forward to next season. Happy holidays to all! BTW, just saw that honey locust pods are a favored food for deer. We have quite a few of these and our long drive is lined with thornless honey locust. This may be another draw on our property.

Last edited by RAH; 12/12/20 08:57 AM. Reason: addition
R&R #528791 12/12/20 02:01 PM
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RAH, the 2nd (or 3rd?) rut is kicking in. Saw 2 different does yesterday being chased by bucks. I had a 130 class buck (I think, I can't judge inches on the hoof) in the crosshairs off and on for about 10 minutes yesterday at approx. 180 yds. Landowner didn't want me to shoot bucks, just does, so I didn't pull the trigger. Then talking to him afterwards he wanted to know why I didn't. I said, you said no bucks. Your property, your rules. I'm not here hunting for me, I'm here to hunt for you - to reduce the amount of does on your place. He then said you could have shot him.

Nope, not unless I get a clear green light I'm sticking to what he said at first, and I will still go to sleep easily at night.

The deer trails there in the woods are just lines of mud, they see that much deer traffic. It's in a reduction zone, so my goal is 10 does.

That buck had good mass at the base, was about 2" wider than the ears on each side, and was about 16"-18" high. High rack, not too much length going forward. left side was symmetrical, G2's were probably 12" - really tall. 10 pt, right side had a crab claw at the end of the main beam.

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Took my final doe (out of 2 does) ahead of a trailing buck in the second rut (about a month after the first rut). Would have been a cull buck if I had not already culled my 2020 buck earlier (shot a weird wounded pandemic buck earlier - posted pics earlier). This recent one just did not have enough tine length. I saw a nice 3.5 year old a couple days before that will be a shooter next year that seemed to see me in the stand but then turned his head away at 10 yards and walk away, Hope that he makes it. Saw him even earlier as well and he did the same thing then. Been a strange year all around. Most of the does that I took this year seemed to see me before I shot them this year, but did not run... The final doe was my only shot over 25 yards (this one at 85 yards on the ground because I had my knees to use as a rest for my elbows). Have come to be OK with coyotes because they help keep the overall deer population in check during these times of diseases. Actually saw a trembling raccoon with distemper as well. Carefully walked around him on a trail. Depressed fur prices have resulted in a population boom, so they and the coyotes may soon have their own pandemic... Hoping we are done with this by next season! Your self control is no doubt the reason yo have access to deer hunting property. I have seen the flip side of that.

R&R #528803 12/12/20 09:49 PM
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Thanks RAH. I did screw up and shot a "button buck" that looked like a doe. Had me pinned at over 100 yds. Turns out the 1.5" long "buttons" were on a buck that was 1.5 years old, not 6-8 months old.


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R&R #528810 12/13/20 07:13 AM
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A few year back, I shot what I thought was a large doe during muzzleloader. When my wife came out to help me load it, she said, "this smells like a buck". In fact, it was a "shed buck" in December and I did not even notice. Really bummed me out, but it could have been genetic and worth culling anyway (it was in good body condition). I am really careful not to shoot buttons in recent years, but I am a bad judge of size on the hoof which usually means close shots. I try to look for behavior or take one out of a family group at yardage, but nothing is failproof. Your older button was probably a good cull as well. I consider the twisted "pandemic buck" that I took this year to be a cull too, since even if the old 12-point wasn't twisted, it would score poorly due to tine length. I am not "score crazy", but I still trophy hunt. I will not lose track in which year I took this twisted rack. The whole year has been "twisted". I do like being in the woods, but, as I age, I am often not so eager to sit in a stand when it gets really cold...

R&R #528811 12/13/20 09:49 AM
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I didn’t get a big buck this year. Had a nice one in the cross hairs opening morning, but wasn’t comfortable with the shot. Too much brush in the way. My son in law took a nice 10 pt the next day. We each took does later in the week, and then on the last 30 min of the last day took what I thought was another doe. Turned out to be a button buck. We have a lot of little bucks running around. Hopefully the neighbors will let them mature. Four point rule in our county.
Haven’t tried any yet, but I’m betting the button will be pretty good eating. Had some of the doe burger already. Processor cuts it with beef fat. I could hardly tell it was venison.


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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I shot a nice buck opening day. Mistake! Other than hogs, my season ended.

However,I am butt deep in hogs that I need to shoot.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Ha ha! Really!


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Not doing much deer hunting here as old friends and friends of friends have passed on. I just urge you folk to separate some muscle, down to the singular, clean it of silver skin and sinew, cure it in solution for about four days (Morton's Quick Cure is easy, otherwise use a calculator [Amazing Ribs] for the pink nitrite salt). Soak a day in fresh water to pull out some salt. Smoke it good, robustly! It will sweat moisture...when sweating is over, check for 160F plus. This stuff is hard to screw up, unless you burn it. Slice across grain very thin (or not). Tender! This can be a great bar snack if you're not selfish. Still waiting for someone to share an Axis tenderloin (50/50) or any shoulder or butt. LOL!


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RAH #528839 12/14/20 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by RAH
I do like being in the woods, but, as I age, I am often not so eager to sit in a stand when it gets really cold...

I'm with you on that 100%. I lose interest real fast once my fingers and toes go numb from the cold.

I solved that problem after we bought the property we live on now. Built a condo stand that's boxed in on all four sides, and put a roof on it.

Then I bought one of those Mr. Heater catalytic gizmos that screws onto a 20lb propane bottle.

Now I can sit out there all day long without getting cold.

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Originally Posted by DannyMac
I just urge you folk to separate some muscle, down to the singular, clean it of silver skin and sinew, cure it in solution for about four days (Morton's Quick Cure is easy, otherwise use a calculator [Amazing Ribs] for the pink nitrite salt). Soak a day in fresh water to pull out some salt. Smoke it good, robustly! It will sweat moisture...when sweating is over, check for 160F plus. This stuff is hard to screw up, unless you burn it. Slice across grain very thin (or not). Tender! This can be a great bar snack if you're not selfish. Still waiting for someone to share an Axis tenderloin (50/50) or any shoulder or butt. LOL!

I do something similar with the backstrap meat. Clean it up good like you said, cure it in a pastrami seasoning recipe, then smoke it to 125°.
After it cools slice it thin, pile it on whatever kind of bread you like and stick it under the broiler for a couple minutes.
Makes a right decent sandwich.

Most times I'll cure and smoke both backstraps in one shot. The bulk of it I'll vacuum-pack and then freeze for later.

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Thinking about starting to use those chemical hand/foot warmers when it gets really cold. I like to sit in different ladder stands over time to keep things interesting, but wind can make things uncomfortable when temps drop. Have not tried them yet though. May also convert an old wagon running gear into a movable raised box stand as well, but I have more projects than I seem to be able to complete...

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Originally Posted by RAH
Thinking about starting to use those chemical hand/foot warmers when it gets really cold. I like to sit in different ladder stands over time to keep things interesting, but wind can make things uncomfortable when temps drop. Have not tried them yet though. May also convert an old wagon running gear into a movable raised box stand as well, but I have more projects than I seem to be able to complete...

RAH, I have a handwarmer "muff" that I always wear around my mid section and I put a large chemical hand warmer in it. Any time the temp is getting to the low 30's and lower I have it on me. Saves from having numb fingers.


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esshup #528907 12/16/20 06:42 AM
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I have shooting mittens with pouches for the chemical warmers but have never used them. I also think that I have room in the toes of one of my sets of boots with enough room. That set of boots did note come in wide sizes and I have wide feet, so I have a lot of toe room in front. Done hunting for this year, so will have to see what next year brings. Snow is accumulating this morning...

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My daughter and son in law bought me heated socks a few years ago. My first thought was, how well can these work? They are rechargeable, and actually work ok. Fine for a tree stand or goose pit, but I won’t wear them quail hunting.


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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Just make sure your feet don’t get sweaty. I used the electric socks and had to walk back to the house, about a mile, with wet feet.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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That is always an issue, even when just dressing to sit and then having a long walk in and out. I get cold hands and feet very easily, whereas my wife is never cold. Fortunately, both of our kids are like their mom. On the other hand, very hot Summer days are no problem for me.

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Originally Posted by Dave Davidson1
Just make sure your feet don’t get sweaty. I used the electric socks and had to walk back to the house, about a mile, with wet feet.
Exactly, that’s why I won’t wear them on a bird hunt. Sitting in a blind, stand, or pit. They are great, long walk, not so good. It’s hard to get too cold on a bird hunt. Wear too much and you are soaked in sweat. Now, standing around after dark, dressing birds on the tailgate of a truck....


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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Neighbor pulled his 23rd muskrat out of our shallow twin duck ponds so far this season. I knew there were a lot in there based on how they hammered the emergent plants. His last set caught 5, so I am guessing that there are still more in there. Have some in my other 3 fish ponds as well, but he has only trapped 2 of them once and caught a couple there.

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My favorite part of deer season is enjoying the rewards of a successful hunt.

I've got a small batch of jerky going in the Traeger today.

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A customer and landowner of a property I hunt talked to the guy that hunts the adjoining property. Turns out that guy traps too, and since the season opened here (11-15) he's trapped 22 coyotes off of that property.


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R&R #528982 12/18/20 01:10 AM
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I see a lot of yotes and hear them too, especially when the train whistles at night. It used to bother me, but now I am happy they help keep the deer herd in check. I can only take out so many does to offset the dead gut-shot bucks that I find each year. Only solution for favoring trophy bucks and a healthy herd is overall population reduction. Based on the size of the late season deer herd, I have cut things down by about half over the last 5 years. The survivors look fat and happy. Unfortunately, raccoons are now showing up with distemper which will likely hammer the yotes as well. Depressed fur prices have reduced trapping allowing some fur bearer populations to explode.

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Minnow identification
Minnow identification
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Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
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Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

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