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How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
#524054 07/28/20 07:51 AM
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Hey guys,

I found an actual pond builder in the area I'm looking at property.

The proposal they sent me for the due diligence portion was $1,000 and 200/hr beyond that.

Is this normal market rates?


Im going to ask a lot of questions, but only because I'm clueless
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524085 07/29/20 06:12 AM
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Define the Due Diligence. That can cover a lot that might or night not be subjective. $200 per hour for what kind of equipment?
Have you checked references? Lots of difference in dozer drivers that clear land, cut grade, etc and a pond builder.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
Dave Davidson1 #524100 07/29/20 02:12 PM
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No equipment! See below for original proposal.

Initial Site Assessment: Cost: $1,000.00*
AES will during the initial assessment review lake feasibility. We are trying to simply define is this a good pond site and what are the cost and approximate size of a lake given this site. This is a partial list of some of the items AES will attempt to define:
 Best lake and dam location.
 General size determination of lake surface acres.
 Watershed size and topography and assessment of water sources.
 Determine if good compactable clay is adjacent to the dam location.
 A GIS drawing is provided for lake location and watershed. A follow-up report contains findings and estimated cost analysis.
*Includes up to 2 hours onsite(1 hour per location). Additional hours agreed upon will be charged at an hourly rate of $200/hour.
Once it is determined you wish to move forward with the pond construction the following services are available from one of our chosen engineering firms. AES will be out of the picture during the engineering service phase.

When you are ready to start the construction process, we are here to assist you with the following services:

Lake Fish Habitat Plan: $500 hand drawn or digital map Stocking Plan to meet goals: $350 (free with multiple services) Power point of fish species desired size and numbers, time table, and prices geared to match desired fishing goals.


***I asked for clarification of the clay determination/testing (assuming it would be big machinery) and was told its not:

I spoke with the biologist about the "soil testing." He said that they do a basic ribbon test in several spots in the area in which the pond would be built. This is not a comprehensive soil study, but a starting point for further investigation. The ribbon test is where you take the soil sample and rub it across the hands. If it creates a tubular ribbon shape and stays together, it will hold water.


Im going to ask a lot of questions, but only because I'm clueless
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524101 07/29/20 03:01 PM
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At first when you asked I thought an up front $1000 cost seemed not fair.....just to come look.

But with all the tire-kickers...I can understand....they want people that are serious.

With the $1000 they are attempting to scare off people that have them drive out to a property, spend 2-3 hours on a property, get the price estimate, and then tell them "thanks I'll think about it" and never hear from them again.


Fishing has never been about the fish....

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Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
Zep #524102 07/29/20 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Zep
At first when you asked I thought an up front cost seemed not fair.....just to come look.

But with all the tire-kickers...I can understand....they want people that are serious.

With the $1000 they are attempting to scare off people that have them drive out to a property, spend 2-3 hours on a property, get the price estimate, and then tell them "thanks I'll think about it" and never hear from them again.
My thoughts as well. That's Greg Grimes company, and I bet they do stay busy, busy.


AL
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
Zep #524124 07/30/20 12:11 PM
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I dont mind paying, i just thought it would be the 3-500 range not the 1k range.


Im going to ask a lot of questions, but only because I'm clueless
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524127 07/30/20 12:17 PM
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It sounds like you'd be getting a good, extensive pre-build study. Which is what I would expect from Greg Grimes.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524135 07/30/20 03:15 PM
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Does sound a little high, but using people that know what they are doing comes at a price. I'm sure you could get someone out to give you a good guess for free, but the good ones have to weed through the many request someway..


1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524139 07/30/20 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CityDad
I dont mind paying, i just thought it would be the 3-500 range not the 1k range.
I would think if asked maybe they would consider refunding half the $1000 if you end up signing a contract for them to build your pond?....That would seem fair...but I dunno.


Fishing has never been about the fish....

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Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524143 07/30/20 08:21 PM
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Hind-sight is 20-20 but having someone with the foresight to eliminate problems before you start is well worth the cost, to me.


I Subscribe!
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524147 07/30/20 11:36 PM
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As someone who built a pond five years ago, I can say that good advice isn't usually cheap. But it is far less expensive than bad advice, even if bad is very cheap. Many, many things can go wrong or be overlooked, especially if you haven't done this before.

Even with the best advice, a few years later you'll still wish you'd done a few things differently. Without the best advice, there will be far more regrets.

Last edited by anthropic; 07/30/20 11:40 PM.

8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 25 HSB & 250 F1 9/20, 206




Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524148 07/31/20 12:00 AM
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If yall are telling me this is market value I dont mind it, I just didnt expect it, and I do RE development *shrug* I'll try to negotiate it down.


Im going to ask a lot of questions, but only because I'm clueless
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524150 07/31/20 05:05 AM
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Coach always told us in school "Do it right do it light, Do it wrong do it long". Pay someone that know what they are doing can save a lot of headaches in the future.


The people who say I can't do it can just sit the @^#% down and watch me. Friends call me Rusto I also subscribe to pond boss mag. http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504716#Post504716
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524177 07/31/20 09:43 PM
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Can you guys think of anything that should be *obvious* for me to see for myself in regards to wether or not its worth it to have the guys come in?
I.e. Big 'nonos' to look for?

Note the lots are like are mountaintop or mountainside and 3-5 acres.

Of the two only one has known springs and creeks


Im going to ask a lot of questions, but only because I'm clueless
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524198 08/01/20 02:31 PM
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CityDad....do you have a ballpark on the size pond you are thinking about?


Fishing has never been about the fish....

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Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524202 08/01/20 04:31 PM
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Soils and watershed are where I'd begin. Need enough clay to hold water, and big enough watershed to supply sufficient water. Then I'd look at creek & springs.


8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 25 HSB & 250 F1 9/20, 206




Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524223 08/02/20 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CityDad
If yall are telling me this is market value I dont mind it, I just didnt expect it, and I do RE development *shrug* I'll try to negotiate it down.

You stumbled upon Greg Grimes' outfit, it looks like. Greg is a long-time friend of Pond Boss and has an excellent reputation here. Upfront costs here could save you 20x-50x down the road. It costs A LOT to fix someone else's mistake if you wind up with a mud hole instead of a pond.

Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524538 08/09/20 10:28 PM
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You could swing by your local counties NRCS office and make sure that your watershed will support a pond for free. Once you know that, then call AES in. It's not just the on-site time, it is travel time and the time that it takes to write a report after the on-site visit. Plus the knowledge that is gained over the years to know what to look for when visiting a site.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524619 08/12/20 10:57 AM
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What is AES? Sorry bad at acronyms ever since i gave up caffeeine

And I'm looking fairly small- 1/4 to 1/2 acre depending on costs.
I'm not too worried about soil, since the property is essentially a mountain made out of georgia red clay
For watershed, this is at the bottom of the mountain, so again not too worried as long as we pick the right 'spot' on it (there several 'watershed creeks' that flow to 1 spot, so....right there seems the best bet, and eventually a forage pond above it smile

https://imgur.com/a/R3da1lk

Here's my doodling on a topography of the site. Purple lines are roughly where water flows now after a rain.

I think the blue spot could be as large has a half acre, and the red site would top out around 1/4.

Once I get further into D.D. ill get my site visit and quotes and figure out which one is the best bet/fits budget.

Last edited by CityDad; 08/12/20 11:20 AM.

Im going to ask a lot of questions, but only because I'm clueless
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524633 08/12/20 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CityDad
What is AES?
Aquatic Environmental Services


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524653 08/12/20 09:25 PM
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*facepalm*
Shoulda had that one.

Last edited by CityDad; 08/12/20 09:26 PM.

Im going to ask a lot of questions, but only because I'm clueless
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524655 08/13/20 06:16 AM
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I had a small backhoe. I dug down as deep as i it would go and then let it set for six months.It held water fine. It was blue clay.

Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #524656 08/13/20 06:17 AM
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I had a small backhoe. I dug down as deep as i it would go and then let it set for six months.It held water fine. It was blue clay.

Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
john kelsey #524663 08/13/20 10:19 AM
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Not an option for me :p


Im going to ask a lot of questions, but only because I'm clueless
Re: How much should i expect to pay for Due Diligence?
CityDad #526894 10/19/20 11:30 AM
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Worth it IMHO, except if it is determined that your site is no good for a pond (i.e. sandy soils). It would be rough to spend that money and not get anything but a big negatory.

Some of that money will wind up being used towards your project as it would be repeat effort to plan the elevations and where the soils go.


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