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Re: Questions and Feedback on SMB
Snipe #526249 09/24/20 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Snipe
" Prey that can persist without extirpation, that remain small and vulnerable to predators throughout life, have high reproduction rates, produce large crops of offspring relative to their standing weight, exploit lower trophic levels, and have short spans of life that turnover the population are what I would consider "ideal" for this purpose."

I like this. This is also one of the reasons I felt the Red shiner would fit well. They seldom achieve a size larger than 3" but have the same body mass as a slightly larger GSH without the potential of outgrowing the predator and turning the table as GSH do.

I agree with your thoughts on the red shiner. At this point, your pond is only one I am aware of where red-shiner have been introduced. It's very special in that regard and I am following your progress with them with great interest.

Re: Questions and Feedback on SMB
jpsdad #526250 09/24/20 05:47 AM
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Agree, this is interesting. I've heard of red shiners but am not familiar with them. Sounds like a great fish.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Questions and Feedback on SMB
jpsdad #526256 09/24/20 09:44 AM
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Where would someone find red shiners


Im going to ask a lot of questions, but only because I'm clueless
Re: Questions and Feedback on SMB
jpsdad #526268 09/24/20 02:38 PM
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CityDad, there are a few aquarium hobbyist that handle a few to the tune of about 5-7$ each plus shipping. I'm fortunate enough I've found a location about 2.5hrs from me where I have an endless supply now so as far as numbers I have not found any other source but they are widely distributed in the wild. As young, they are quite hard to identify. The adults are "almost" unmistakable.
I have not searched widely on the east coast, there may possibly be someone handling them but it's been a long, hard search.


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Re: Questions and Feedback on SMB
jpsdad #526269 09/24/20 03:20 PM
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Got my interest piqued as well. I've found that I have better luck if I search for Rainbow Dace instead of Red Shiner, since that is another name for them. I've found lots of websites that have them, but all are out of stock. I'll keep looking.

Re: Questions and Feedback on SMB
jpsdad #526394 09/28/20 08:55 PM
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With regard to Snipe's red shiners, please keep in mind that he lives right in the heart of red shiner country. They are ubiquitous where he lives. Red shiners have a very broad native range so they are appropriate a lot of pondboss members. A good rule of thumb? Does your water drain to the Mississippi River? If it empties in the Gulf east of the Mississippi, the Pacific or Atlantic, you can rest assured that the powers that be fear this minnow, don't want you to bring it in, and probably have laws prohibiting them.

The good news is that there are closely related shiners in those watersheds that have shown promise ponds also. Satinfins and blacktails for example. What about the many miniature versions of sunfish that the Atlantic drainages are so blessed with? There is so much opportunity to learn and perhaps exploit locally collected specimens.

Re: Questions and Feedback on SMB
jpsdad #526420 09/29/20 10:52 AM
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To emphasize what Bill said - not a lot of evidence to rely on and waters differ in immense proportions. Standing stock (carrying capacity) can be hugely different so average numbers from studies are only a very rough guess at what to expect. Waters can vary from very low productivity 50 lbs per acre to very high 2500 lbs - in natural waters with little human harvest. Some very balanced to totally out of balance. It depends - a lot !
















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