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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523770 07/20/20 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TGW1
...Highflyer/Brian is working on a way to use solar power. He asked how much i wanted to spend and I said 1500 but now I am thinking it may run twice that before it's all over. I may need to untie his hands giving him an open pocket book and let him do what ever it takes.

Surface aeration for 5 acres? My only aeration advice is to start taking baby aspirin about a week before Brian tells you the cost. It'll help prevent a stroke. He and I were discussing the cost of a solar powered paddle wheel aerator I wanted if and when I put a silt pond in. We only made it to the battery cost before I vetoed the plan.

Eric's statement got me thinking. What would be the downside of shutting down your feeders, and letting your predators dine solely on forage until your water cools off this fall?


AL
Re: My first fish kill
ewest #523786 07/21/20 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ewest
Tracy I think you need a good analysis on how close you are to carrying capacity.

Eric, If I have learned anything over the past 5 yrs it's that mother nature has a strong input when it comes to pond management. Mother Nature will make any corrections needed in a body of water, or on a piece of land. No mater what you do, when MN needs to correct things it will, The problem is, what I want and what MN wants are two different things. No matter if it's Ponds, Quail numbers on a given piece of land or the number of deer, mother nature makes the corrections.

Al, it's funny I think. We have to laugh at what it cost to do any type of solar system that actually works when it is needed. I can get solar to do the job, but it may be 20,000 bucks to get there. Double what it would cost to run electricity to the pond. Look back at houses/homes. where there were large kick backs from the government. It was or is the only way anyone could justify adding a solar system to a house.

I am now in the process of hiring some help for raking vegetation at the pond. Not a management company because I have yet to find a company to manage aquatic vegetation, Hoping to find someone that is willing to show up for at least a two week job or maybe a months works. H E double LL. I could see where it could turn into a full time job.

Last edited by TGW1; 07/21/20 06:53 AM.

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Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523790 07/21/20 07:20 AM
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Tracy, SOLitude folks will manage aquatic vegetation. Other companies might do, too, but I know SOL will.

Last edited by anthropic; 07/21/20 07:22 AM.

8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 113




Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523791 07/21/20 07:22 AM
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Eric, I could see where an e survey might be nice to have when and if I can get rid of the vegetation that is covering about 2/3rd's of the pond surface. It could be an opportunity to adjust my thinking of how to get to that trophy pond after all the trial and error I have experienced over the past 5 1/2 yr's.


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Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
anthropic #523793 07/21/20 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by anthropic
Tracy, SOLitude folks will manage aquatic vegetation. Other companies might do, too, but I know SOL will.


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Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523800 07/21/20 10:13 AM
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Tracy - a thought - how is you alkalinity ?
















Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523831 07/22/20 06:46 AM
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I have not checked alk lately, last ck was in the 130's. but it's been awhile. I don't think I can make any adjustment if needed until I get rid of the BPW, it's just to thick. Looks like I have lost all the HSB and a 21" lmb A NICE ONE. That bothers me more. That's the ones I want passing along the genetics. I hope I don't lose any more of those lmb. There are or were some really nice (big) lmb in the pond, I am hoping they are still there. They were already hard to catch so it's not so easy to determine if they are there in the first place. One indication that they were there is the fact that I was short in numbers of 6 to8" cnbg over the past 6 months.

A friend said he was tired of hearing about my dying fish, it's because he cared and not mint to be mean about it. It's true, I am also tired of hearing about it.

So, for all those that want to learn from my mistakes, it's to control your vegetation, control excess nutrients, It's not so easy to do that. and don't put in so many predators that will grow to larger sizes. The pond seemed to be balanced and then it wasn't, The vegetation grew out of control fast. Identify it early and see how aggressive it can be. Get grass carp and Tilapia before that happens. If you are asking yourself, do I need to treat the vegetation, DO IT if you can, don't wait and see. You might need to chemically treat your pond do it in the early spring don't wait. I hope others learn from my mistakes.


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Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523839 07/22/20 09:23 AM
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If alkalinity is in the 100 range you should not have a buffering problem.
















Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523863 07/22/20 06:36 PM
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Sorry to hear about your continuing problems Tracy.

It seems like the more we manage a pond the more we have to manage it.

Add feed = grow more fish biomass = increase potential for fish kill
Add aeration = grow even more fish biomass = increase potential for fish kill
Try to grow big fish with all of the above and don't harvest anything = even more potential for fish kill.

It seems like the more we do the more we have to do to keep all the balls in the air.

I have removed about 425 fish so far from my three ponds to try and avoid what you are having. Maybe around 200-300 pounds. I had a modest fish kill last year while we were on an extended vacation. My grandson got to take care of the aftermath of that and since I was not around not sure what and how many died. From his report some large bass and catfish. So we have fished pretty hard up to hot weather to try and reduce the overall biomass in the pond and give room for the new recruits coming on and for the remaining fish to grow. Also have cut down of the feed rate through the hot months.

We will see if does any good.


John

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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523917 07/23/20 03:04 PM
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John, after five yr's of management I still don't know what I don't know. My learning curve can be pretty steep and costly. So how many fish is too many? I still don't know. You can't determine it through fishing, big fish are harder to catch because they are smarter, more familiar with their surroundings and Florida bass are harder to catch anyway. Even when it looked like i had x number per acre, u could not catch but maybe one per hr. I think this fish kill had more to do with excess vegetation due to high nutrients from feeding over a five yr period. Too much vegetation means low Do in the night hrs. The pond had lost it's thread fin shad population last fall due to clear water and nothing for them to eat. So that was a reduction of fish and my 6 to 8" cnbg were for the most part gone. Another reduction of pounds per acre, And when bass fishing u almost never caught a 12 or 13 " lmb. We did not cull because they were not there. I do think there were too many HSB but the RW's were good so i did not feel like they were starved of food, That messed with my thinking/logic at the time. They were hand feed for the most part, again to much feeding going on. High nutrient water grows alot of veggies.

Last edited by TGW1; 07/23/20 03:08 PM.

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Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523918 07/23/20 03:25 PM
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Man, I'm sorry to hear about your problems, Tracy. You pushed your pond very successfully to max biomass, far better than I have, but as you say balance is always temporary.

I've taken some steps to cut back on my bushy pondweed, too. Hope I don't get a fish kill out of it, will try to nip it in the bud next spring. Once it gets going in summer, very tough to control.


8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 113




Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523919 07/23/20 04:35 PM
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I am going to meet up with Josh in the morning, concerning the BPW. We will see what he thinks from where/how the pond is now.

And Frank, I did push to grow fish as fast as I could, 9 lb lmb in 4 yrs is not bad but i was slow to react to the bpw, had no idea it was so aggressive growing in my pond till it was too late. Really had no issues until the bpw took over. Went from a great pond to crap in 6 months. Added G carp in Oct when little of it was seen in the pond but not enough carp at 3 per acre.

Last edited by TGW1; 07/23/20 04:51 PM.

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Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523927 07/23/20 10:27 PM
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Maybe the combination of an herbicide in spring plus your grass carp will get the brushy pondweed under control. I've asked permission to stock about 3 per acre, too, in the hopes that will be enough. Interested to see if the reduction from herbicide at my place will help LMB find more forage and improve growth rates.

Nine pounds in four years is amazing. My biggest LMB caught so far is only around six. HSB have grown faster, which is kinda odd considering that I only stocked TFS this year. Probably limited HSB numbers help.

Last edited by anthropic; 07/23/20 11:00 PM.

8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 113




Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523936 07/24/20 12:51 PM
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We met at the pond this morning, Ph good in the 7 range alk over a hundred. Water looks good condition. Problem is low DO @ 3.4 a foot under the surface and 2. 41 3' down in 4' water depths. Vegetation is defiantly the problem and low DO is what I expected. It was cloudy when we checked. Concern about treating any vegetation at this time because of low DO and killing more fish so he leans toward no treatment at this time, the water is just to hot. Recommended 24/7 diffusers run. I see his point, fish may die to to hot water but they are dying now because of vegetation and hot water, so turn it up. Will see how the rest of the summer goes and how many more fish die? We did not have a total fish kill but it may not be over yet because of the BPW. Recommendation's were to treat pond with Sonar all at once when the water is cool in late Feb early March. Till then wait and see and hope.

Frank, sorry but the 9 lbrs caught were 4 and half yrs old.

Last edited by TGW1; 07/24/20 12:59 PM.

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Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523938 07/24/20 01:19 PM
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Fish kills suck! I'm sorry Tracy!


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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523989 07/26/20 08:14 AM
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WBJ, I know u have been there done that. Or u lost fish. frown And yes it sucks. A great fishery for an E Texas pond just went to Chet. I see alot of small sized cnbg along with some Tp and a few lmb. And the pond is full of BF tadpoles. Something I have not seen since the ponds fist spring. Makin lemonade out of lemons, I see where I might be able to do something different come next spring. Right now, my plans are to monitor catch rates, size of fish this coming fall when the water cools and then maybe entertain an E survey next spring and go from there. And your solar buddy (and my buddy too) is working with me to improve my aeration situation, low DO, by moving some surface waters using solar power and or another way (experimenting with air) so like you, I hope to improve what I have now. So in the future I can improve the DO during the hot summer months without the water temps moving to the 92 degree water temps. Maybe an air conditioner pumping cold air into the diffusers might help. smile I need to talk to Brian about that lol.

Last edited by TGW1; 07/26/20 08:27 AM.

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Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523994 07/26/20 11:32 AM
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I'm running aeration 24/7 right now, water temps are in the mid eighties. I suspect your bushy pond weed is hindering water movement/circulation and therefore DO exchange.



Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523995 07/26/20 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TGW1
WBJ, I know u have been there done that. Or u lost fish. frown And yes it sucks. A great fishery for an E Texas pond just went to Chet. I see alot of small sized cnbg along with some Tp and a few lmb. And the pond is full of BF tadpoles. Something I have not seen since the ponds fist spring. Makin lemonade out of lemons, I see where I might be able to do something different come next spring. Right now, my plans are to monitor catch rates, size of fish this coming fall when the water cools and then maybe entertain an E survey next spring and go from there. And your solar buddy (and my buddy too) is working with me to improve my aeration situation, low DO, by moving some surface waters using solar power and or another way (experimenting with air) so like you, I hope to improve what I have now. So in the future I can improve the DO during the hot summer months without the water temps moving to the 92 degree water temps. Maybe an air conditioner pumping cold air into the diffusers might help. smile I need to talk to Brian about that lol.

Tracy - It can definitely be discouraging. Good news is for you it's not an every year thing. The other good news is there is ALWAYS a solution. It just takes a combination of time and money!!! The more money you spend the less time it usually takes and vice versa.


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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #524045 07/27/20 11:33 PM
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Tracy, I had my BPW treated 2 weeks ago. Went from 25 to 10 percent coverage, maybe less. Water is murky with decaying plants,, but no sign of cyanobacteria nor fish kill. Fish still feeding pretty well considering temperatures.


8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 113




Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #524106 07/30/20 06:54 AM
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Frank, glad to hear. I met the guy that did your place. He was the guy that did not think we should kill the vegetation at this time. As you know every pond is different. Right now the BPW is dying back and sinking to the ponds bottom. But still have alot of it on the surface. Diffused air is up and running. We continue to rake for removal.

Last night my son called me and asked me if I could remove a hook from his finger? Showed up 20 min later and I was able to remove the hook using fishing line and I popped it right out. That was after an hour of his wife attempting to remove it. EVERYONE who owns a pond should learn this process, it would save many a trip to the emergency room for hook removal. My point is, there are still some good sized lmb in the pond. He said it was a fat and healthy lmb that he caught when it shook and wiggled as he was removing the bait and he got his finger hooked up with a medium sized top water bait. Not sure of the exact size of the lmb as his fish estimated weights are always on the heaver side smile He said it weighed about 3 lbs but I'm guessing it was a little smaller lol

Last edited by TGW1; 07/30/20 06:58 AM.

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Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #524137 07/30/20 05:27 PM
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A treble hook looks like a boat anchor when it is stuck in your hand!!!


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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #524145 07/30/20 10:58 PM
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Well done removing the hook, Tracy! I once hooked my brother in the back when I pulled a lure out of a tree branch, it was not fun for him at all. He got back (no pun intended) at me by messing up the net so I lost a big smallmouth, the only large fish hooked on the trip, though he denies it was intentional.

As for weed treatment, you are getting good advice. Better to be safe than sorry, especially since you are fighting low DO anyway. Interesting that BPW is fading on its own this time of year, just as it does at my place. Bob Lusk said that it gets covered with periphyton, which I guess makes sense but I do wonder why this doesn't seem to slow other pond plants.

Last edited by anthropic; 07/30/20 10:59 PM.

8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 113




Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #524188 08/01/20 07:11 AM
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I agree Frank, thanks for the info as to who you had come out. After all my research along with talking to Al, who treats his own weeds, I decided it might be smarter if I hired someone for my first year of weed control. Since almost everyone I talked to, their first question for treatment was " Do I have Grass carp" ? And it takes about 3 yrs for them to make a difference. The problem I see with that is how many survived transfer into the pond? My personal experience might lead me to believe 50 %. And so it might take 6 yrs if you only have half the carp frown Or another fish kill because I am no expert when it comes to treating ponds with chemicals


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Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #524206 08/01/20 07:35 PM
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Tracy, my GC are out and about. We're seeing several groups of 4-5 working on patches of BPW. Rarely saw groups of them before the BPW showed up in mass this year. Ours isn't near as bad as yours, but it is worse than it ever has been.

I'm wondering if the mild winter we had is causing all of this. I've been helping several neighbors that are overrun with weeds and algae this year. The only ponds up here that aren't having issues, are the ones with turbid water.


AL
Re: My first fish kill
FireIsHot #524216 08/02/20 02:15 AM
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Al, I wonder the same about mild winters. After all, most of the climate warming we've had is during winter, not summer. But mild winters don't scare people the way torrid summers do, so the media rarely mentions this fact. Tracy said some of his tilapia overwintered, another sign.


8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 113




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