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Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524129 07/30/20 02:00 PM
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I would say that is capillary action wicking the water from the pond up the bank. Shouldn't be a problem.


Fish on!,
Noel
Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524133 07/30/20 02:43 PM
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Are all those shoreline rocks supposed to be underwater? is the high water mark the top of the wet dirt area? I would put a stake in the water with tape at the water line and monitor how fast the water level is going down. How old is the pond again?. Water normally wicks upward from the waterline. Was the entire pond basin compacted with a sheepsfoot roller? A bulldozer is not a soil packing machine which is why road building crews use special compaction devices to make road beds and to stabilize, compact soil for construction projects. In hot sunshine midsummer a pond can lose 1/2" of water per day. Faster than that there is a leak. All ponds without a membrane liner leak. The amount of leakage is the test how well the pond was built.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/30/20 02:46 PM.

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Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524134 07/30/20 03:12 PM
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We put the rocks around where we thought the shoreline was going to be. I will post another picture showing the true shoreline once the pond was full. These rocks were dug up when they cleared land for the house and I wanted to use them because they were unique. May not have been the best choice, but they are mine. lol

I have one rock that I have kept my eye on for water evaporation, but I will put a flag out. That's a good idea.

[img]https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=16426&filename=pond3.jpg.png

Last edited by Chandler1; 07/30/20 03:15 PM.
Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524136 07/30/20 04:26 PM
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Bill, the pond has a clay bottom and is not lined. It was dug out and built by my husband's cousin, who has an excavation company. He built to allow for runoff from neighbor's yard and to protect from flooding our yard. He packed it the best he could with the equipment he had. You can tell in the picture that by the time the water got to the rocks on the right (which is where he designed the spillway), the pond had to be considered full. That being said, there has not been much change on the waterline near the rocks on the right, which is good, I guess? I put a flag there just now to keep track.

I suppose this changes the calculations of how big the pond is and the water volume. It should still be 8 ft deep in the middle.

Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524160 07/31/20 10:22 AM
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The HBG are robust and grow quickly. Here's my progress over the last year. After reading this thread, anyone know where I can find trout in North Texas?

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Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524174 07/31/20 09:11 PM
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Chandler in a private message asks:
“ “I would love to introduce bass only, but I need to know how to feed them. You say they will eat their own fry, but what if there is no fry in the beginning. I have pellets. Is that enough?””
Note – This pondowner has already stocked fathead minnows so small minnows are available. YES - high protein pellets are enough if the bass are pellet trained direct from the fish farm otherwise, if they(LMB) do not eat pellets, by themselves in a pond results in them staying around 9”-13” long. Bass as predators need lots of food to grow – 10 lb of live food per fish is needed to gain a pound. YES for eating primarily pellets applies more as a YES with HSB compared to LMB. See below for more info about pellet trained LMbass.

Or
“Can I have bluegill and bass?”
“I was thinking 15-20 bass and 50 bluegill.” A prey predator ratio of 1:3.
“My grandchildren would get a bang out of catching the bluegill.”

ANSWERS

First the fish density - He is thinking of adding 15 LMB and 50 BG = 1:3.3
One bass to 2.5 or 3.3 BG. In a 50ftX55ft which is 0.06 ac, this equates to 240 bass/ac and 800 BG/ac. This is way too many stocker fish in a tiny pond. Way fish over crowded for healthy water and healthy fish. Current most common stocking guidelines are 100 LMB and 500BG / acre. Thus the 240LMB to 800BG is way too many fish for 2700ft2. Maybe not too many initially as fingerlings, but as soon as the fish are 1 yr old problems are very likely to begin. If these all these fish are fed pellets there will soon be water quality problems and likely fish deaths from too much fish biomass for the limited water volume. Your grandkids will not get much of a ‘bang’ from seeing lots of dead fish. Quality fish balance based on size of pond is much more important than having lots of fish.
Pellet trained bass can exist on a primary diet of pellets providing the pellets have high protein and nutrient balance, at least 40% protein. Free ranging bass only eating pellets will get an added low amount of nutrition from the small amount of natural foods they find in the pond.
Mixing BG and LMB In A Tiny Pond, This is the traditioinal pond stocker fish combination. However in a pond less than 0.2 ac (many say one acre), it becomes a difficult time especially long term when managing the reproduction from both BG & LMB and keeping a balance where both species grow well and are angler quality. A pretty difficult feat in a tinypond. Fish balance with growth is hard to achieve without lots of frequent management effort and then 1 or 2 bass would not be much bigger than 2 maybe 2 lbs – 14”-15” and the remainder mostly 8”-12”. One specie of the BG-LMB very often tends to overpopulate for one reason or another which often happens in many ponds even larger ponds. However the smaller the pond is, the more prone it will have an overpopulation of the BG or the LMB. This also tends to be true with most of the other common sportfish combos used in tiny ponds. This is why catfish only is often used as the main fish for small ponds. However even catfish can reproduce in a pond and overpopulate when adequate predators are not present or adequate harvest does not happen.

The other problem with the BG-LMB small pond combo is if the LMB original stockers are pellet trained, most of their offspring will NOT eat pellets. Thus the majority of these bass offspring grow very slowly and top out at around 11”-12” due to lack of food and crowding for space and food. After your original stocker larger pellet eating bass die, you have slim chances of getting LMB bigger than 10”-12” because the LMB usually will keep reproducing, and then tend to become crowded, overpopulate and over eat the food source. When overcrowded they over eat the small BG. As the biggest oldest BG begin to gradually die from old age, you eventually have no or too few BG and overcrowded small bass. This is a management dilemma and problems to deal with providing if you want quality size fish especially if one wants larger sized fish. Growing larger fish in a mini-pond is a special management situation that IMO requires a unique stocker fish combination and good management.

Bottom Line. The BG-LMB combination is a very difficult for one to be successful in a small pond unless special management is used or you are satisfied with numerous small fish.

Some on the Forum have used the redear sunfish(RES) as a panfish. They reproduce sparingly although they, direct from the fish farm, are not pellet trained. Plus they are hard to pellet train. Often RES do not grow fast when proper foods are not present. RES as the main forage fish do not reproduce enough for bass to grow over 12”-13”. It is often said on the Forum that RES do not overpopulate and stunt. RES overpopulating is rare, but I have seen it happen. Anglers say they (RES) are fairly difficult to catch which makes them a poor choice for young anglers.
The best plan IMO for the small pond to have primarily larger sized fish is to not use fish that can cause overpopulation problems which means all they basically do is grow if they have enough food. One should think of finding and using sport fish that will not reproduce or don’t reproduce. The other key to success of big fish in a small pond is to stock fish that grow well on pellets thus you do not have to rely on small fish to feed the predators to make them grow big. Limited or stable numbers, feed quality pellets, and watch them grow.

If one is really serious about having catchable edible panfish and some larger quality predators in the mini-pond, I refer back to my earlier post. For panfish use tilapia (TP) and predators use hybrid striped bass HSB.
Tilapia are available in larger sizes. 6"-7" stocker tilapia can grow to 12-15" by late summer in Texas. Big panfish indeed! They readily eat pellets and grow faster than any other panfish 2” per month. The bigger the stocker size the faster they are ready for exciting the anglers. A 14" tilapia fights as hard as a 14" LMB. They are very hard fighters for their size. Plus they eat your algae problems and you can later eat them; a win, win. You never have to worry about overpopulation because they all die every late fall with water drops to 50F, They need to be replaced each spring but this is a low, well money very spent cost compared to ALL the great benefits they provide based on goals of quality fish for the mini-pond. Great panfish for a low maintenance mini-pond.

For the large fish use hybrid striped HSB. They do not reproduce in ponds - so no overpopulation problems. Put and take as needed. They eat pellets very aggressively with lots of surface splashing. They grow fast and big, plus pull on the fish pole like a race car.

Both of these pellet eating specialty fish can be readily caught by anglers using highly flavorful artificial fish pellets. The best brand is from Stubby Steve.


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Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524175 07/31/20 09:14 PM
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I think trout in fall are available in northern Texas from Overton's Fish Hatchery also known as Overton Fisheries. this is one of the best places to buy your Texas fish. They have a great reputation, are very customer friendly, helpful, and have very high quality fish, and a good supporter of the Pond Boss family. They have a very informative website. Check them out.
https://overtonfisheries.com/

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/31/20 09:21 PM.

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Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524181 08/01/20 06:51 AM
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Bill said it all.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524192 08/01/20 10:00 AM
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Ok. I will go with HSB in September. I want them to be big enough to put a rod out so how many and how big? The number of fish is not as important as the size of fish.

When you mentioned tilapia, were you mentioning that as a choice for "tilapia only" situation? So you mean that if I did not go with HSB, I could go with tilapia. Is that what you mean? If I did go with tilapia, would I put them in now or wait until September? It seems if I wait until September, I wouldn't have much time before they die. Would I put some in now and then introduce HSB in September?

I know I sound confused when Bill is educating not just me, but other readers.

So Bill, I want to go with your suggestion.

1. Is it HSB in September ONLY? What size and how many?
2. Is it tilapia now (size and number) and add HSB in September (size and number)?

Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524193 08/01/20 11:15 AM
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HSB in September or October or Spring - any size when stocking a new pond with no predtors. Often the larger HSB are mostly available in Fall. The larger ones you are able to stock the faster they grow to catchable or angler preferred size. BE sure to buy a small amount 5-8 lbs of the SAME fish food that the Fish Farm is using to feed the HSB. They should be willing to sell a small amount as in a few pounds to use until the HSB grow to eat large pellets which will be one year later. Try hard not to buy a whole big bag of fish food for your small pond. It will go bad, mold and loose nutrition before you are able to use the whole bag. Plus larger or bigger HSB (12"+) do not do well when eating tiny 1/16" or 1/8" pellets.

Tilapia are stocked primarily in Spring as soon as the water temperature stabilizes at 68F-70F. Try to buy ones at least 5" and better 6"-8" long. Tilapia can be used as the only fish or they work very well when combined with HSB and most other fish species. Both species will be a very good fun combination for your small pond. Give me a day or two to find time to create a discussion for a couple stocking number / densities. I will return soon. All these posts take time to create when details are provided. .

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/01/20 11:19 AM.

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Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524199 08/01/20 03:42 PM
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So my plan now is to wait until September and try to get HSB.

Should we install a bubbler before we stock the fish? Originally I was told that new ponds had enough oxygen for awhile, but if we need to do it sooner rather than later, then what kind and what size?

Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524203 08/01/20 05:49 PM
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I wouldn't stock fish if the water is over about 75 to 80 degrees.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524204 08/01/20 06:31 PM
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I will buy a pond thermometer

Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524207 08/01/20 08:35 PM
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Yes Davidson1 has good advice for stocking TX ponds wait until the water is 70-75F all fish will have better survival. Your killing the fatheads a week ot two ago is good testimony for what he is saying. Heed the good experienced Texas advice.


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Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524211 08/01/20 09:40 PM
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I will listen. And pray for an early fall. lol

Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524224 08/02/20 11:42 AM
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All of a sudden, the pond is covered with green algae. I may have been feeding the minnows too much? I feed about 1/'2 or a little more a day. I read some posts on algae and have ordered Cutrine-Plus. How long do I have to feed minnows?

Is there a thread that covers treatment for my mini pond?

Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524228 08/02/20 04:20 PM
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I know it was suggested new ponds usually have enough oxygen in the beginning, but we have decided to go ahead and aerate the pond. I really need help knowing what to buy. Do I just take the recommendation from the sales person based on pond size and potential water volume? We want to buy a bubbler.

Last edited by Chandler1; 08/02/20 04:20 PM.
Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524256 08/03/20 11:14 AM
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Adding air now will help you get used to it, understand it, and get it set up right where you want...before you need it. It has taken me almost 3 years to get a good grip on what my aeration system does to my pond. So, getting it going now will, not only be exciting, but allow you to experiment before it is actually critical.

Forgive me for not reading back through the thread entirely, but....

Did you ever estimate how many gallons it contains?

What type and brand of diffusers are you looking at buying?

I will assume that you will only be aerating at night during the summer months which means the system has to do its job in much less time. This means a larger system than a generic sales chart will suggest.

We will also need to know what depths you plan to put the diffusers in and how many. I suspect 1 or 2 diffusers will be enough....your thoughts and desires? The more diffusers, the better the surface conditions (if needed) and the bigger the pump will need to be.


Fish on!,
Noel
Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524278 08/03/20 02:48 PM
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The pond is basically round. Now that it's full, I would say it is 48 ft x 48 ft and 8 ft deep in the center. We want a bubbler.

Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524303 08/03/20 09:39 PM
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Get three estimates from good aerator people one of them Vertex. Watch for cfm (air volume) of the compressor. The more air the larger the diffuser and quicker it can turnover the pond. If the pond stays reasonably clear you would not have to run the aerator 24/7. A good aerator should easily mix one pond turnover in 1-2 hrs. Then run it twice a day turning it over twice a day.

An aerator will not eliminate the green string algae as you will learn. Cut back on feeding the minnows. maybe 1/4 cup a day or just 3 days a week.

Now saying 48x48 is 2300 sqft if pond is square 0.05ac ave depth 4ft = 65000 gallons ; And a round pond at dia 48ft is 1800 sqft. = 0.04ac = 53000 gallons.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/03/20 09:42 PM.

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Re: Fish Choices Mini-Pond Water Hose Filled
Chandler1 #524312 08/04/20 12:03 AM
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I bought this aerator kit on Amazon a month and a half ago. About $400 and makes a lot of bubbles. Says its only good for 7 feet deep though. I'm about 5.5 feet deep and it works great. EasyPro PA6SWN Single Diffuser Shallow Pond Aeration Kit .

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