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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523448 07/09/20 09:10 PM
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Tracy:

You mentioned in a previous post about DO readings. What were they at the different depths?

Up here, we stock trout in the Fall for winter and spring fishing. They last until around 70 degree water temp and then go belly up. A client had them still alive in his pond at 80 degree water temp. Pond was 12' deep, 7/8 acre. We ran a Vertex system 24/7 with three airstations, each with 2 diffusers on each. He also ran a 2 hp volcano type surface agitator 24/7. O2 levels were 8.1mg/l that's why the trout were still alive.

Last year another client was able to over summer his trout. Pond is about 27' deep, we played with the subsurface Vertex system for 3 years and finally hit on a combination that worked. He also ran his system 24/7 and ran a 1 hp surface agitator. In that pond we adjusted the bottom aeration system so the pond would set up a thermocline around 12' deep.

In another large HOA pond (18 acres) that had a high phytoplankton bloom and high underwater weed growth mass, the HOA could not afford to aerate the whole pond the first year. We installed a bottom diffuser system in half the pond, using two 3/4 hp compressors. August rolled around, visibility dropped, water temp climbed and the pond had a fish kill. What was interesting is that ONLY the half of pond that wasn't aerated had a fish kill, and the closer you got to the aerated half, the less dead fish there were. The pond was only a maximum of 8' deep, and no thermocline ever set up in the pond, it was strictly a night time O2 crash that killed the fish.

I truly think that it's more about having enough O2 in the water than pond water temp.

When I tried to keep trout alive longer in my pond by only running the diffusers at night when the night time temps were below 70 degrees, it actually killed the trout quicker because the system homogenized the whole water column, but wasn't large enough to raise the O2 levels enough on it's own. If I were to run a surface agitator, I believe I could keep trout for a much longer period of time.

I'd be very interested in hearing what your O2 levels were at different depths of the pond, and at different times of the day.


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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523452 07/10/20 01:01 AM
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Hey, Tracy. Do you use a standpipe behind the dam to take out excess water? I went that direction and it does tend to help clear out anoxic or near anoxic bottom water. At the pond today I saw a strong outflow from the top of the pipe, but there was no bad smell. Probably all the rain has pushed most of the low DO water out already.


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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523470 07/10/20 11:42 AM
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Essup, it's good to hear form you, been awhile. I wish you the best in all this virus crap going around.

Ok, the water temps/Do I mentioned were what I have seen for a 3 year period. Like most everyone when I got my new toy temp/Do Meter 4 yrs ago I checked things out most every time I went to the pond which was almost daily. Remember, I was trying to grow extral large lmb. smile And I wanted to know year round! My Do meter became a problem last year and I got tired of ordering new probes and then something else would quit. Made in China. It is a Sper Scientific brand. Would not recommend it. And it was not cheap. So, today I use it for temp readings only. My surface temps in open water was running 82 and was alot warmer in the thick matt of vegetation but measured simply by putting my hand in it as I gathered it up putting it in the boat for discard. There was a thermocline prior to me starting up the diffusers @ or around 6 to 7 foot. For the 3 + years i checked the DO it always measured low at and near the bottom, usually about 2 foot on the ponds bottom and that was prior to me starting bottom diffusers. The Do was 1.5 and after starting aeration it would go to 3,5 or so after running diffusers but the water temps went to 92 that first summer running 24/7 and then the next year running 12 hrs per night temps would go to 87. Still to hot according to Bob's Wednesday Facebook program. So I then went to 4 to 5 hrs from 3 am to 6 or 7am. Water temps would stay around 84 even with me raising the diffusers 27" off bottom. Now with all this going on I would turn on the water well where it added 72 degree water 24/7 during July, Aug, Sept. In that hottest time of the year. The well water has a venture system where it adds air along with the water then traveling a 40' ribbed culvert and then splash on rocks before it entered the pond water. Tp and Gams will hang out there along with some 8 to 12" lmb. I have felt for several years now that two large volume surface volcano's were needed along with the diffuser's. Problem is the cost of it all. Solar is not cheap but looks like the best way to go for me. Highflyer (Brian) and I discussed this just the other day, and if he can work it in (free time is hard to come by these days don't you think?) I understand that fish are not cheep either smile

Frank, (Anthropic) I have a syphon system that will move some water out of the pond at times, but because of my pond bottom design it does not syphon from the deepest waters. Another reason for Bottom Diffusers.

Last edited by TGW1; 07/10/20 11:46 AM.

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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523472 07/10/20 01:05 PM
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Frank, I've seen where you have some Bushy Pondweed in your coves and making them not so fishable. Alot of my 3+ acre pond is full if it. Some of it is brownish tan color with a small amount of green strands in it. This area is like it is free floating so to speak and is in the deeper water. Where other areas, it is so thick it looks tanish light brown colored on the very top of it but just under that it is alot of green and the deeper you rake it up the greener it is. I did add a small amount of the Aquathol Super but a very small area close to the pier. I wanted to see what it did before I added it to larger area. After reading this past Pond Boss Magazine I am really happy I did such a small area (a square yard or two area). I am going to wait till this fall when the water cools down before I treat any more. I don't need the headaches as described when treating plants, large blooms after treatments along with bad alge. I wanted to ask you since you had it last summer, what happened to it as it died back in the warmer water? Did it float forever or did it finally sink to bottom? Can anyone here explain what the process is when it dies back, if it ever does?

And Frank, you have been looking or did add grass carp. So in my pond here is what I have seen with them. The first 3 per acre I added were 14" in length and maybe a pound in weight. Added in Oct, last fall. I saw one this week that was at least 30" and in the 6 to 7lb range I am guessing. At that time I had quite a bit of the pondweed but it really took off as a very aggressive plant after last fall into this spring and summer. I add an additional 5 in early June at 12 to 13" and I saw one the other day that must be around 3 lbs maybe 18" long. Bob L. on Face book said they might eat 7 times there weight per day. I sure hope thats right at my place, as they seem to be very fast growing. i just thought i would throw the info out there for you. Or for anyone else that might be interested.


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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523478 07/10/20 02:50 PM
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Tracy, last year my bushy pondweed seemed like it would take over the entire pond, then slowed, stopped, and gradually subsided. Peak was in June. Some floating, but mostly it sank after dying. This year I've seen pretty much the same thing, probably not quite as much growth due to all the rain & murkier water.

Thanks for info re grass carp. They do grow fast! Looks like I'll be doing herbicide treatment when temps cool, then add GC. Right now I am going through the permitting process. I have incredible numbers of CNBG, ranging from YOY to giants, hiding in the weeds. Forage pond helped boost population, I think. Really want the LMB to get a clear shot at them!

Last edited by anthropic; 07/10/20 02:57 PM.

8ac, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20, 117




Re: My first fish kill
anthropic #523497 07/11/20 10:06 AM
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Be careful with the grass carp.

My RES/SMB one acre pond was over run with bushy pond weed last year. Water was clear and the weed was terrible. I put in two grass carp late summer then a different fish truck came around that fall and decided to do two more. So four total in one acre. This spring the BPW was in remission but could still easily pull it up on a fishing lure. Today you have to cast quite a bit and try and you can pull a little up. But the pond is basically denuded.

The GC are about estimate 18-20" long. I have seen 3 at one time so not sure if the 4th is still in there or not. Could have been taken out by our resident GBH. I never saw them as long as there was plenty of pondweed for them to eat. See them regularly now.

I really would not have minded if a little of the BPW would have survived and made some cover for my fingerlings. Now I basically have a bare pond and GC that come running when I feed and have become pellet hogs because they cleared out all their other food.

Knowing what I know now I would have started with two per acre instead of four.

Last edited by snrub; 07/11/20 10:09 AM.

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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523498 07/11/20 11:16 AM
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Thanks for the info John, I started with 3 per acre but no way they curtailed the spring growth. It was recommended I add 5 per acre but I understood it was good to have some BPW. So, I just added 10 al together. WRONG! That crap loves my pond. I think it was one reason I lost some of my HSB this summer. Last fall I would see on the outside of my APW and not alot of it. And some said it was good to have some. No Way I think you want it in a pond. You are also a good example of how it took over. It cleared my water all the way to 10' depths and then grew there also. Like Frank, I am loaded with cnbg in the 3 to 4" size. The perfect size for the lmb and hsb but if they can't catch them and eat them it's no advantage to having them. In fact at this time, I see no reason for a forage pond because there are so many and I am used to haveing a good forage base for growing large lmb/hsb. I am sure my Tp are also booming with babies. As I rake it into the boat I find 1" lmb, 1/2" cnbg or res in it, they are to small to tell the difference right now.

Last edited by TGW1; 07/11/20 11:20 AM.

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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523538 07/12/20 06:43 PM
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Thanks Tracy. Staying safe with the virus thing going on, our county has a VERY low infected count, and I do the social distancing/face mask/latex glove thing too. 2020 sucks in more ways than one though. Spent a lot of time earlier this year keeping Mom away from any virus worries, her back started hurting May 1st, (Osteoporosis so that was typical) but it didn't go away. May 22nd she was diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer, she passed away 2 weeks later. I'm going Tuesday to have a cataract removed from the 2nd eye, they did the left eye last week....

When it rains it pours I guess. Plus I'm the executor of the will so I have a LOT of paperwork to read.....


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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523549 07/13/20 08:34 AM
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I was sorry to hear about your Mom when you posted your loss. I've been there when it came as a surprise with my Mom. Happened in just a few days. As an executer, I had to work with my sister and my moms husband and those two did not get along. I closed out everything as fair as I thought possible and to her wishes and told the others if you don't like what I'm doing get a lawyer. I know an executer is necessary but dam, but it was a pain in the arse with me and took around 11 months to sell her house extending the pains. Best wishes to you.


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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523550 07/13/20 08:47 AM
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We are building a large sized rake using a 12' alum boat as the float that will keep the rake off bottom. Too many man made fish habitat's for raking the ponds bottom. Plans are to build the rake out of 2x6 or 2x12 board with teeth made from rebar. Not sure if this is going to work but brainstorming design plans. Drag the boat to ropes length into the pond, attach the man made rake to boat using C clamps and tie the rope to the tractor and drag it out of the pond. No telling at this time how it will work or what design we will end up with. Any recommendations? We are trying to speed up the raking time. Rake it to the bank and then up on the bank, let it dry and then burn it off asap. It would be good if we could come up with something that works, market it and help others and maybe cover cost and effort. smile Dreaming!

Last edited by TGW1; 07/13/20 09:03 AM.

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Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523605 07/15/20 06:31 AM
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learned some more when it came to removing some of the BPW. Our boat with attached rake did move the BPW as we drug it through the floating matt but that's all we did was move it to the shallows. Looking for a better way to drag it out of the pond. The rake we used was a cut off portion of that alum cage that surrounds those large tote liquid containers. Now we are going to try a twin bed spring attached to that same boat.

Last edited by TGW1; 07/15/20 06:35 AM.

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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523675 07/17/20 06:31 AM
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We continue our attempt to remove all the floating BPW matts. One end of the pond is about an acre of matt in 6' of water along with another half acre covered at the other end of the pond. I am not sure how my larger lmb are doing? I have found only one dead lmb this summer, a 4 lb'er . And would like to find a company to Manage the vegetation. Anyone know a company that would do that around the Marshall Texas area? I would like to have them for at least a year so I could learn from them on how to manage the vegetation.


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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523685 07/17/20 11:34 AM
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Something that I have thought about but never implemented is attaching a rake of sorts to the quick tach bracket on a tractor front end loader.

Something like a small landscape rake made for the 3pt hitch but instead loader brackets so it would attach to the loader. Something with a longer boom would be even better.

That would help at least get the mats out of the water without hand raking. I thought of this back in the days I had huge amounts of FA to rake out on the bank. Never did anything about it though.


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Re: My first fish kill
snrub #523686 07/17/20 01:07 PM
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I made something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nHHpBdFcA and mounted on the quick attach on my tractor. It worked pretty well for scraping up muck around the edges. I actually used an old antenna tower for the arm and used landscape rake tines for the head. It is pretty heavy. Would have been nice to use aluminum.


Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523687 07/17/20 03:00 PM
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Snrub I'm surprised you dont have this already. You have quite the collection of big boy toys.


The people who say I can't do it can just sit the @^#% down and watch me. Friends call me Rusto I also subscribe to pond boss mag. http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504716#Post504716
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523699 07/18/20 06:22 AM
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I have a landscape rake and have thought on how to rig it up to the front end loader on my tractor. But that is as far as it has gone. I can see it now "tractor sunk" frown

My son and grandson came out the other evening to assist. And like I said earlier we could get the mats to the ponds edge but was having trouble getting it out of the water, So they walked into the water to toss it onto the shore and ran out after getting stung by some insect that lives in the matt. I called them a wuss but it does hurt when stung, like a small wasp sting. I have been stung several times when I hand bring the matt into the boat. I have no idea on what it is that's stinging us. There are several different insects buried in the matt. Some of them look like they are bad ass bugs but never been able to see what is really stinging us. I think the insect lives in the water surface in the matt but it seems like they are under water insects.

Anyone know of a pond management company around the Marshall Tx area?

Last edited by TGW1; 07/18/20 06:30 AM.

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Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523706 07/18/20 05:07 PM
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Dragonfly Naiads are painful, probably what you have. they'll make you bleed..:-))


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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523708 07/18/20 05:23 PM
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TGW1, I don't know of anybody down there that manages the aquatic weeds. There is a company up here that does it locally, and they charge $1,800.00/year/surface acre for 12 treatments.


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Re: My first fish kill
gklop #523714 07/18/20 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by gklop
I made something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nHHpBdFcA and mounted on the quick attach on my tractor. It worked pretty well for scraping up muck around the edges. I actually used an old antenna tower for the arm and used landscape rake tines for the head. It is pretty heavy. Would have been nice to use aluminum.

That is something like I had in in mind. Never got around to it and have not had the problem in my main pond since. One problem also is I have quite a bit of structure and rocks in the pond I wanted to use it in and it would definitely be hard on those things.


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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523726 07/18/20 08:29 PM
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Tracy, get in touch with Kelly Duffie here on PB


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523733 07/19/20 06:57 AM
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Thanks esshup for the info, I was hoping that there might be someone local here in the E. Texas area but yet to find one. Dave, a few weeks back, I did talk to Kelly through email and we discussed grass carp as a solution but any improvement by grass carp is most likely a couple of years away. because the BPW has taken over the pond. After spending thousands and putting alot of time into a trophy pond, it's pretty discouraging. Fireishot has helped but because it is summer your hands are pretty much tied when it come to any chemical solution. So right now the pond is running it's course. We continue to rake the pond but not sure that we will ever catch up.

Found a 21" lmb dead and floating yesterday. Lost a trophy and that sucks. Hope I don't find more of them today. Fish seemed to be doing fine after the big hsb kill. Been running diffusers 4 1/2 hrs per night. Son ran over air line with brush hog. Went a day without air, found dead fish. I am still not sure running diffusers is the way to go when it comes to our warm hot summer days. Did anyone notice Bob Lusk Facebook comments about him shutting off his diffusers for a few days this past week? Maybe I am thinking alike. Look at fish suppliers, they run surface aeration not diffusers. Highflyer is kind enough to help me out in finding a solution. I am willing to put in more money for surface air but it may be looking at alot of money for a solution. I am guessing that it may run at least 2 to 5,000 for any type of surface aeration when looking at a 3 acre pond. Looking at 1500 for first attempt but I am not sure this will solve the aeration problem I am seeing at the pond right now. Right now I am not sure it's cheaper for a pond over bass boats and new truck to pull it with, Hind sight is 20/20. Grass carp should be added to any pond when doing the first stocking of a pond in E. Texas or at least stock them the first year. Everyone I have spoken to, the first question they ask is do you have grass carp.

Last edited by TGW1; 07/19/20 07:04 AM.

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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523738 07/19/20 11:25 AM
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7 more dead HSB this morning. I will start the diffusers back starting at 15 min at 4am and double it till I get to 3 hrs and then I am going no further with it. My fish kill started when I went to 4 hr run time so not going back there. To be honest I am not sure that I even want to run it at all during the summer months and my experience with diffused air after 4 years is to run it during the spring and fall when you really don't even need it because of the cooler water and higher DO numbers without the aeration. Can you tell I am not sold on diffused air?


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Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523739 07/19/20 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TGW1
7 more dead HSB this morning. I will start the diffusers back starting at 15 min at 4am and double it till I get to 3 hrs and then I am going no further with it. My fish kill started when I went to 4 hr run time so not going back there. To be honest I am not sure that I even want to run it at all during the summer months and my experience with diffused air after 4 years is to run it during the spring and fall when you really don't even need it because of the cooler water and higher DO numbers without the aeration. Can you tell I am not sold on diffused air?

I think George had a similar problem with diffused air and so he added a surface agitator and never lost any more fish. There's an old thread about it here somewhere.

Re: My first fish kill
Bocomo #523755 07/20/20 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bocomo
Originally Posted by TGW1
7 more dead HSB this morning. I will start the diffusers back starting at 15 min at 4am and double it till I get to 3 hrs and then I am going no further with it. My fish kill started when I went to 4 hr run time so not going back there. To be honest I am not sure that I even want to run it at all during the summer months and my experience with diffused air after 4 years is to run it during the spring and fall when you really don't even need it because of the cooler water and higher DO numbers without the aeration. Can you tell I am not sold on diffused air?

I think George had a similar problem with diffused air and so he added a surface agitator and never lost any more fish. There's an old thread about it here somewhere.

I remember that with George Bocomo. The reason I have not already done the surface air is because there is no electricity at the pond. I looked into doing that a few years back but cost for getting power to the pond was 10,000 and then you had to add the cost of the volcano's on top of that. So 15,000 +-. Highflyer/Brian is working on a way to use solar power. He asked how much i wanted to spend and I said 1500 but now I am thinking it may run twice that before it's all over. I may need to untie his hands giving him an open pocket book and let him do what ever it takes.


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
Re: My first fish kill
TGW1 #523762 07/20/20 10:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
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Tracy I think you need a good analysis on how close you are to carrying capacity.
















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