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Fourth time CC has spawned this year
#523174 07/02/20 10:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
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I know it must be hard to believe but I just cleaned about 30 CC I had in my live well last week. Over 1/3 of them had eggs . I pulled one of my CC traps and had about 70 to 80 small CC. I decided to bait the three traps and in i day and captured about 600 CC and put them in my 20' holding net.
Not only is the CC out of control the red ear are also.out of control.
other that having thousands of feet of tubing for the geothermal heating and cooling for house and shop. There are only a few boulders in the pond bottom and that is it. I have no vegetation in the pond except what leaves blow in. I put 100 bass in several years ago and may have to add more that would be at least 10 inches long to keep the from being eaten.
any new ideas that have not been posted. have 2 aerators and visibility is over 18". The dam side has rock and boulders in the side the rest has a 4' concrete wall that starts at 3' deep. pond is 12' deep. see attached photos
Does anyone know if a old phone crank will work in a pond to raise catfish. My dad used it in the Osage River and it worked very well. Was told it wouldn't work in a pond

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Last edited by ED D; 07/02/20 10:18 PM.
Re: Fourth time CC has spawned this year
ED D #523177 07/03/20 01:10 AM
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I'll be met with opposition but CC only lay eggs once per season and not all females with eggs will actually lay them. shortly after eggs are laid, the next years eggs begin to develop in the ovaries-they have eggs nearly all year but in different stages of development depending on time of year.
CC are also not a good predator to control any other species including RES and in turn, there is no smokin gun predator for CC control.
I would venture to guess LMB may be a good choice but high numbers of intermediate fish may be required to work over as many smaller CC as would be needed and I would suspect a second strong predator may also be required but I'm not sure what the best choice would be.
I don't know of any situation where CC were an extremely desired forage species. I'm just not sure what the proper way to address the issue would be.
EDIT: electrofishing is an option but very limited over 5-6ft deep. Also, not all CC respond the same to electrofishing and water temp and chemical characteristics affect the conductivity of any given BOW so results can vary greatly with this technique.

Last edited by Snipe; 07/03/20 01:16 AM.

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Re: Fourth time CC has spawned this year
Snipe #523238 07/05/20 01:47 AM
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The only thing i really know is ,I have been overrun for several years and have given away thousands of CC every year and it seems to get worst. I had Missouri Department of Conversation MDNR hear over 2 years ago and they asked Columbia University to take some tests and stated there is a wide fluctuation of water temperature by all of the geothermal tubing and using water from the 750 ' well to keep the pond full.
I have two separate geothermal systems to heat and cool separate buildings. The university said I had as much as 20 degrees difference in temperature. from one end of the pond to the other at the same depth. I know it doesn't freeze over in the winter.
I have added two aerators and that has not helped. I was told I should have had 2 acres for the size of the geothermal.
I have no idea about spawning except what I have been told. i was told that the water conditions apparently cause the CC to spawn several times each year but not the same CC each time. They indicated the pond is an anomaly .
I do now i would drain it and start over if it was not for the geothermal.
That is why i have a 20 CU.YD. holding net so i can filter out the over stocked fish.

Re: Fourth time CC has spawned this year
ED D #523246 07/05/20 07:53 AM
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Nice place. Cats are cavity spawners so that piece of pipe in the pics needs to go. Of course, that won't keep them from tunneling into the bank to build a cavity.

I remember using an old phone and it worked. But compared to professional electro fishing, it comes in a real distant second.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Fourth time CC has spawned this year
ED D #523255 07/05/20 01:24 PM
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I wonder what a fair number of blue catfish would do in that pond. I know they will eat channel catfish. Would be risky to try but I guess if the pond is screwed up anyway it wouldn't be a whole lot to lose.

Re: Fourth time CC has spawned this year
ED D #523262 07/06/20 12:02 AM
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the pipe is one of my fish traps. i bait it and use it to catch the CC to put
in the holding tank.

Are there any fish traps that work better than others?

I am not familiar with Blue Cat. what are the up and down side of putting them in? how big do they get and do they spawn like CC.

Does the LMB compete with the BC ? what size BC would i need to get and the estimated time to reverse this problem!!!!!!!

Re: Fourth time CC has spawned this year
ED D #523263 07/06/20 01:47 AM
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I'm not sure I'd be worrying about competition with the situation you're in. Blues actually do quite well with CC, they also spawn very similar in fashion and time frame.
I'm not sure what the answer is..
Maybe Bob Lusk could weigh in and make a recommendation on this??


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Re: Fourth time CC has spawned this year
ED D #523274 07/06/20 05:37 AM
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Blue cats can turn into the Moby Dicks of the fish world.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Fourth time CC has spawned this year
ED D #523276 07/06/20 05:44 AM
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This is most certainly an interesting case and I am also interested in Bob's take.

There are some interesting and odd things that I take from it.

First, the pond appears to grow and support trophy LMB. It would seem that the CC are playing the role of forage for them ... unless the LMB are eating feed?

Second, there doesn't appear to be any LMB reproduction. I do wonder why. I have observed CC raiding BG nests. The BG are forced to step aside while the CC goes vertical over the nest. It would seem that eggs or fry are being attacked in these displays. So does an abundance of CC prevent or inhibit LMB reproduction?

Third, CC reproduction doesn't appear to prevent the CC from attaining harvestable sizes.

Just a couple of thoughts:

Given the time that the LMB have been in the pond, there has probably been some mortality and ladder stocking may help. Also, smaller sizes of LMB in larger numbers would probably help reduce the number of "fiddlers". An 8 lb LMB is probably most interested in CC in the 6" to 9" lengths and so there may be comparatively little predation of sizes smaller by LMB (though the bigger CC are for sure eating some of these smaller fingerlings).

I've read this and another thread by ED D, but Ed it wasn't clear to me what your ultimate goals were. For example, do you have and want a catfish pond? Or are the catfish unwanted? My sense was that it is first and foremost a catfish pond with LMB serving crowd control ... but as I said .... this isn't clear. But if it is, I think a ladder stocking of LMB (or HSB) might be a sustainable method to improve the growth of CC and limit the fiddlers.

On the other hand, too many LMB may result in excessive LMB reproduction and a curtailment of desired CC recruitment to harvestable sizes. As it right now, the pond seems to be an LMB/panfish combination where the CC serve as the panfish and the LMB are put and take?

Re: Fourth time CC has spawned this year
ED D #523321 07/06/20 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ED D
the pipe is one of my fish traps. i bait it and use it to catch the CC to put
in the holding tank.

Are there any fish traps that work better than others?

I am not familiar with Blue Cat. what are the up and down side of putting them in? how big do they get and do they spawn like CC.

Does the LMB compete with the BC ? what size BC would i need to get and the estimated time to reverse this problem!!!!!!!


The world record Blue is like 140 lbs so BIG. I don't know how big they get in ponds. My family has put them in catfish ponds with mostly channels but we caught them out before they got really big. The guy I buy fish from had BC and said they ate everything in the pond he had them in and didn't recommend them. I have no idea how big they'd get in your pond. I've never had a pond where catfish spawned successfully so I'm at a loss as to if BC would spawn in your pond. I was pondering rather than suggesting anything. You're situation is really wild.

Last edited by crimsondave; 07/06/20 10:00 PM.
Re: Fourth time CC has spawned this year
ED D #523322 07/06/20 10:07 PM
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The main reason for the pond, when we built the house, was to use it as a ministry. To have kids come out from the intercity and churches where, most of these kids have never fished. Then we decided to add geothermal to be more energy efficient.
We dug a four foot deep trench around the up-side of the pond area before we finished digging out the pond. That was to allow the kids to walk around the sea wall side and not get muddy and be next to the water. (It is only about 2.5 feet deep next to the wall and goes out 7' and goes 12' deep as a safety factor.

We wanted the pond for both CC, RES, and LMB. That is where it started and has been very gratifying to see these kids catch their first fish. Some we would clean and let them take home. Know they are not big enough to keep.THAT IS THE REAL STORY.

I very much appreciate all of the comments and ideas we are getting. I am just outside of my league on these issues. I have yet to have 20 posts sense joining in 2005 .But all my limited knowledge has come from this site.
Someone mentioned having a Bob Lusk weigh in on this. How do I contact him for his opinion. And please send me any ideas that will straighten out our delima. Thank You

BTW i am building a 12' x 12' floating platform so i can evenly wash 6 tons of gypsum thru-out the pond to really clear it up . I have about 16 to 18 " of visibility. We do not have any vegetation in the pond . Any comments on these issues. I am able to get 2 ton totes of gypsum powder very reasonable when i pick it up . I will wash it off the platform and agitate it in the water with a outboard motor.

Re: Fourth time CC has spawned this year
ED D #523975 07/25/20 08:50 PM
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I have CC recruitment in one of my two 1/4 acre ponds. The pond has a few bass and lots of BG, but is very muddy. Maybe the LMB cannot see the little CC and a few survive, but I have some 8-9 inch ones coming to feed and have not stocked any for well over a year. My last stockers in there are about 15-16 inches, and a few of the originals that are left likely exceed 22 inches and are the likely spawners. I suspect the 8-9 inch CC are last summer's spawn.


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