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Vertex overheat!!
#522837 06/23/20 11:25 AM
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I have been very happy with my vertex setup. I believe I posted about my experience doing a self-install of their upgrade kit in another link. The instruction sheet was hard to follow but with some feedback to the company they allowed me to make some suggestions and edits to that install self-help sheet. I'm not sure if the suggestions were incorporated into their literature but I do see the literature was changed slightly. If anyone is going to tackle the upgrade/rebuild of their vertex 1/4hp compressor, feel free to shoot me a message.

Randomly, and for reasons i can't explain the other day I walked by my compressor cabinet while it was purring away quietly and touched the box. It was so hot that it frightened me! I unbolted the cover and looked in side and sure enough the cooling fan blades were stationary and the AC motor on the cooling fan was humming. It had seized! But when? And why? maybe this happens after 5 years or so? I use my only a few months in the summer and then only in the overnight cool hours of the day. It sits in the shade so doesn't get much abuse from the elements or the sun. Boy, I hope I didn't ruin something but glad I found it.

I did struggle to find the exact AC cooling fan to do the repair. The one in the vertex unit has as IP55 water splash resistance rating. That model seem to be hard to find or order. I was able to find a match with all the other parameters on ebay except that splash rating. I see that these AC fans are used to cool cabinets and also are used to cool elevator cars.

I ordered a replacement eager to get this aerator going again in the humid hot weather we are having.

I went to install it and had a senior moment!! What way was that old fan blowing? Was it blowing in to blow air across the compressor, or was it blowing OUT to pull air from inside the cabinet and move it out? Does it matter? Now I'm not sure! If someone has a Vertex unit and has time, can you walk out and see if the fan is blowing out towards you or sucking air into the cabinet?

I also realized when I got back inside that there are TWO screens that protect the fan blades, one is a fine black aluminum mesh that obviously mounts on the outside to keep fingers out. But then there is a larger stainless steel grid that must go on the inside?

Why don't I take pictures of these things before taking them apart?

I'm hoping the replacement fan goes for a while since it doesn't have the exact same outdoor rating. I also have to put that on my check list once in a while to walk by and make sure it is cooling the compressor properly.

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Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #522838 06/23/20 11:30 AM
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In case you are interested...

It is a mechatronics brand A/C fan, 120mm square. It has model number UF12A12 and is a 12/14V unit. However my particular version has a code of BTHN and the N gives it some type of IP55 rated splash resistance.

There are a lot of variations of this fan and you have to make sure it has the same wiring setup as the one you are replacing to avoid a custom rewire job.

I can find a BTHNSR version online that also says it has the IP55 rating so maybe that is a new part number that replaces the old BTHN. Maybe our elevator guru on the forum would know the answer. I'm guessing the SR now might mean splash resistant?

I see tons of the BTH and BWH version on ebay which appear to be for indoor applications of the same fan with the same specs?

Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #522868 06/24/20 07:18 AM
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I'm not familiar with your unit but, typically those muffin fans run in the direction that puts cool air across them, so they don't overheat.
Meaning the hot air is purged out instead of drawn past them.

Important:
Make sure the filers are clean, so air is moving.

Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #522877 06/24/20 11:09 AM
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As a Electrical Engineer who took Heat Transfer in college 40 years ago, I would have the cooling fan blow cool air into the enclosure IF IT BLEW DIRECTLY ACROSS THE COMPRESSOR. The idea is to get the coolest air to impact the compressor. If the fan does not point toward the compressor, sucking might be better than blowing. (The experimentally minded could try it both ways and leave it in whichever configuration gave the lowest compressor temperature.)

I have my compressor mounted inside a 6'x8' shed, with ductwork pulling outside air (from the cool, North side of the shed) into a fan which blows straight onto the compressor. There have been no problems with this setup in over 15 years.

You can take all that into consideration (especially the 40 years ago part).


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #522879 06/24/20 11:38 AM
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thanks for the help. So far we have one vote for blowing OUT of the case and one vote for blowing IN the case as long as it blows right on the compressor. The fan is mounted about 6" away from the compressor and right now is drawing air from outside and blowing right ON the compressor. Since I run at night it is drawing cooler air into the case.

I did send an email to VERTEX support and we'll see if they reply smile

Last edited by canyoncreek; 06/24/20 11:39 AM.
Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #522881 06/24/20 12:47 PM
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Like Theo suggested...put the strongest flow of air across the compressor. This can be done by blowing the fan directly at the compressor OR putting the compressor directly in front of the air intake. Either way, you want the compressor to be in the better part of the air flow. The difference, at this point, between blowing in or out will be next to nothing.

If there is a better chance of rain getting to the fan hole compared to the vent hole...blow out to keep the rain from being sucked in.

Surely another member has one of these and can look at theirs and tell you how Mr. "V' did it.


Fish on!,
Noel
Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #522883 06/24/20 02:02 PM
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Looks like we all agree on blowing air in.
Maybe I was not clear. With the fan moving the cool air, it is blowing air in, the cool air is passing through the fan and the heat is purged out the other side (not through the fan), so the fan does not move the heated air, saving the fan from overheating.

Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #522898 06/25/20 06:48 AM
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Harbor freight sells a cheap "laser " thermometer that came in real handy for me checking temps at diffrent locations on my pump while I was designing my 4 foot by 4 foot screened box I mounted my pump in!! I found pump ran way too hot with small enclosures even with the fan blowing on it. IT NEEDS VENTILATION. And a lot of it! That is why I settled with 4x4 screened box and I put a WHITE ONLY metal roof on it to better keep it cool. I made one of the side panels removable for easy access to the pump if ever needed. So far after several years of non stop running it still works fine. The laser will come in handy for you just to keep check on what is going on. Good luck!


Dear Alcohol, We had a deal where you would make me funnier, smarter, and a better dancer... I saw the video... We need to talk.
Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #522909 06/25/20 12:33 PM
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Thanks for the advice on how to build a future enclosure and how to check the temp. It is on my to do list to build an enclosure to keep rain and sun out but need to keep the mesh large enough to let plenty of air in.

Re: Vertex overheat!!
Flame #522910 06/25/20 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Flame
Harbor freight sells a cheap "laser " thermometer that came in real handy for me checking temps at diffrent locations on my pump while I was designing my 4 foot by 4 foot screened box I mounted my pump in!! I found pump ran way too hot with small enclosures even with the fan blowing on it. IT NEEDS VENTILATION. And a lot of it! That is why I settled with 4x4 screened box and I put a WHITE ONLY metal roof on it to better keep it cool. I made one of the side panels removable for easy access to the pump if ever needed. So far after several years of non stop running it still works fine. The laser will come in handy for you just to keep check on what is going on. Good luck!


Flame was it you that built the box and posted a bunch of nice photos showing wiring and ducting? Maybe we can find the thread for cc.

Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #522919 06/25/20 06:07 PM
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I did not post any photos. I have a hard time doing them on this forum. But if anyone wants to PM me their cell # I can text photos from my phone. C Creek I used regular window screen. Plenty of air and keeps mud dabbers and wasp out too. Also stops a hard blowing rain.


Dear Alcohol, We had a deal where you would make me funnier, smarter, and a better dancer... I saw the video... We need to talk.
Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #522929 06/26/20 07:47 AM
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that is helpful, I didn't know if window screen would be too fine a mesh or not but it sounds like that would work fine.

Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #523067 06/30/20 06:16 AM
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I heard back from the support team at Vertex. Surprise!! we all are wrong. The fan is supposed to blow OUT and pull hot air from the enclosure and blow it out. He said:

There is an internal fan in the compressor that draws air through it to assist in cooling. The case fan is designed to draw the hot air out. It's more effective to blow internal air out, as blowing hot air in adds to the heat and will damage it in the long run.

Went out last night and turned it around..

Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #523072 06/30/20 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by canyoncreek
I heard back from the support team at Vertex. Surprise!! we all are wrong. The fan is supposed to blow OUT and pull hot air from the enclosure and blow it out. He said: ..

This is interesting, especially considering he is outnumbered, and his way, burned up your cooling fan.

It might seem counter intuitive to protect the cooling fan, by blowing in cool air across it. But here's the thing, that cheap little cooling fan, protects the pump, from overheating, and when the cooling fan fails...

I guess that would be another sale for them, not so good for you.

Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #523073 06/30/20 10:02 AM
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I don't always agree with industry cooling setups. When I was in sound engineering, Biamp made a professional amplifier with overheat protection that shut everything, including the built-in cooling fan, off when the temperature got so high. The amp would have turned back on a lot sooner if the cooling fan had stayed on.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i582.photobucket.com]
Re: Vertex overheat!!
Theo Gallus #523079 06/30/20 11:04 AM
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New grad engineers should spend five years working as field techs before they ever get turned loose with AutoCad.

Lots of stuff would work better, work longer, and be easier to service if the guys that designed things had to spend some time fixing before they started designing.

Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #523091 06/30/20 12:59 PM
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Am I the only one on the forum with a Vertex compressor setup? Can someone else check how their factory setup is operating? Is the fan sucking outside air in and blowing it in or the other way around?

Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #523097 06/30/20 03:27 PM
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I've got Vertex equipment (circa 2008), but not their enclosure or a compressor with a built-in fan.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i582.photobucket.com]
Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #523098 06/30/20 04:34 PM
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Where I worked at we had a Garden Denver 25hp screw compressor that sucked the fresh air in and blew the hot air out of the cabinet.


Bob


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Re: Vertex overheat!!
canyoncreek #523099 06/30/20 05:00 PM
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Different, but kind of the same. Back in the mid 80's, we took all the electric exhaust fans off the ladder trucks, and went to gas powered fans set at the entry point at fires. Tests showed positive pressure fans pushed heat and smoke out more efficiently than the exhaust fans that pulled heat and smoke out. I don't know if that relates to electronics or not though.


AL
Re: Vertex overheat!!
FireIsHot #523101 06/30/20 06:44 PM
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During all the years I spent working in the electronics industry I don't recall seeing even one amplifier/power supply/anything that used positive pressure cooling.
Everything was built with evacuative cooling.

So this is maybe another example of "It depends..."


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