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Re: What size forage pond would u build
TGW1 #521171 05/18/20 08:09 AM
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I thought about raising prawns and tilapia together, hoping not many of the prawns would get eaten if TP were fed well. Not recommended in article, but that was for commercial harvest & a PITA to separate. Mine would be just to feed my LMB in fall.

By the way, I seem to recall someone saying that the prawns do not have the taste or mouth feel of saltwater shrimp, not nearly as good to eat for most people. Anybody try them?


8ac E Tx, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20




Re: What size forage pond would u build
anthropic #521173 05/18/20 08:37 AM
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I`ve raised prawns for a few years now. I prefer the taste compared to a saltwater shrimp. It has more of a butter taste and as long as the meat is either consumed quickly after harvest or directly frozen it will maintain the texture.


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Re: What size forage pond would u build
TGW1 #521176 05/18/20 09:09 AM
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Do you raise them for your own consumption or commercially for sale? Care to expand on your experience? Start a new thread about the subject if you prefer, or perhaps you have an old thread on the subject you could direct us to.


John

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Re: What size forage pond would u build
Snakebite #521190 05/18/20 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Snakebite
I`ve raised prawns for a few years now. I prefer the taste compared to a saltwater shrimp. It has more of a butter taste and as long as the meat is either consumed quickly after harvest or directly frozen it will maintain the texture.

Wow! Do you find that birds are a nuisance? I have a heron at my place that would dearly love to clean me out of anything it can reach.


8ac E Tx, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20




Re: What size forage pond would u build
TGW1 #521227 05/19/20 08:41 AM
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I do some for my own consumption, but I do sell some locally. I`m in the process of expanding the process so maybe I can document that. I have no issues with birds what so ever. I never see the prawns until near harvest when I start checking for weight per prawn. The only time I can ever remember even seeing them in the pond without me trapping was at night a small amount coming shallow to feed on shoreline aquatics. I would say coons would be the biggest worry.


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Re: What size forage pond would u build
TGW1 #521270 05/20/20 07:46 AM
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Can u tell us more on how u raise them? Recent PBM Bob Lusk had a pretty good article on them. He also mentioned a sportsfishing pond or two that just adds them directly into their ponds with survival of some reaching maturity. I found that info pretty interesting. Was thinking might substitute prawns over craws for forage both bass and personal consumption. Do u think one might catch them at night using a light for locating the mature ones?


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
Re: What size forage pond would u build
TGW1 #521297 05/20/20 01:26 PM
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I use to get them Post Larval PL30 - 45 days old. They would spend the next 3 weeks in large indoor heated aquaculture tanks with lots of netting. I would then transfer to three grow out ponds 20k per pond. Then they spend the next 60 days being fed and growing. I usually sex them at least 4 times during this period.

I only walk the banks at night maybe twice a week, so I have just the limited input. I will say prawns in general are on the dumb side compared to crayfish as defense. Prawns will not spook and shoot away as much as I have noticed walking with crayfish. At night though they seem to change and are very aware of dangers and will use the backward jet takeoff often.

My next question would be why are you looking for the mature ones?


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Re: What size forage pond would u build
TGW1 #521314 05/20/20 08:16 PM
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Gams are in creeks in Kansas? Kansas gets hard water in the winter right? Do gams survive harsh winters? I don't know if any bodies of water in SW MI have gams in them naturally and I'm wondering why?

I found this article from the MI DNR online:

Michigan Department of Natural Resources
Fisheries Technical Report 2003-2, 2003

An Assessment of the Potential Use of Gambusia
for Mosquito Control in Michigan

Robert C. Haas, Michael V. Thomas
Michigan Department of Natural Resources
Lake St. Clair Fisheries Research Station
33135 South River Road
Harrison Township, MI 48045
and
Gary L. Towns
Michigan Department of Natural Resources
Lake Erie Management Unit
38980 Seven Mile Road
Livonia, MI 48152-1006

Abstract.-We reviewed scientific literature and made management recommendations
regarding future introduction of non-native fish species, in the genus Gambusia, for the intended
purpose of controlling pest mosquitoes in Michigan. Gambusia are small, highly aggressive fish
native to the southern United States that have been stocked in nearly every state. They are very
predaceous and will consume small prey animals causing serious environmental damage. A
number of scientific studies in the U.S. and across the world found that introduced Gambusia had
negative effects on native invertebrates, fish, and amphibians. Gambusia stocked in small
Michigan ponds as recently as the late 1970s failed to establish self-sustaining populations.
However, a warming climate would likely increase the ability of Gambusia to overwinter in
Michigan. We followed the American Fisheries Society, Policy Statement for Introduction of
Aquatic Species to determine that the introduction of Gambusia into Michigan waters would have
negative impacts on existing aquatic communities and fisheries, with little or no mosquito control.
We recommend that Gambusia not be used for mosquito control or otherwise be introduced into
the waters of Michigan. Instead, we should protect and enhance the quality of Michigan's
waterways so that native fishes thrive and naturally constrain mosquito populations. Many native
Michigan fish will readily consume mosquito larvae, so if stocking fish is required, we encourage
stocking of native fishes, such as the fathead minnow. We also suggest alternative mosquito
control methods including an educational campaign to inform people of how to reduce man-made
mosquito breeding areas.


Introduction
We have reviewed the scientific literature
dealing with the use of two, very similar species
of non-native fishes in the genus Gambusia
(commonly known as mosquitofish), for the
intended purpose of controlling pest mosquito
populations. This report summarizes our
findings and presents recommendations on how
we think the State of Michigan should approach
this issue. Gambusia are small, harmlesslooking,
guppy-like fish. They are not native to
Michigan and, although introduced here in the
past, are not known to exist at this time in the
wild (see Michigan Dept. Natural Resources
publication "Names of Michigan Fishes",
revised October, 2002).

Two species of Gambusia are native to the
middle and southern portions of the United
States and neither species was originally found
in Michigan (Figure 1, top map). Gambusia
holbrooki is native to Atlantic and Gulf
drainages as far west as Alabama, and north to
Maryland and Illinois. Gambusia affinis
originally ranged from Louisiana to New
Mexico, and north to Kansas and Missouri. The
two species are difficult to distinguish by
external morphology, and were long considered
subspecies of Gambusia affinis. Wooten et al
(1988) provided the genetic basis for the
designation of two discrete species. For the
remainder of this paper, the generic name,
Gambusia, will be used to refer to both species
collectively.

Introducing an exotic organism carries a
substantial risk to the environment and its
natural inhabitants. In many areas of the world,
where Gambusia have been planted for
mosquito control, they have caused serious
environmental damage including harming or
eliminating native fishes and amphibians, and
disrupting natural aquatic food chains. Their
traditional common name, "mosquitofish", has
apparently been misleading to the non-scientific
public because these fish have a popular
reputation for successful control of mosquito
populations. Our review of the scientific,
peer-reviewed literature shows that Gambusia have
not provided effective mosquito control in any
natural setting, despite being introduced for that
purpose in many parts of the world (including
most of the Northern and Western U. S.

Re: What size forage pond would u build
canyoncreek #521323 05/20/20 09:10 PM
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canyon,

I agree with the article. Gambusia shouldn't be stocked outside their native range. I would take this as far as to say that G. affinis shouldn't be stocked in the range of G. holbrooki and that P. kadiakensis shouldn't be stocked in the range of P. Paludosis. Neither of the entire grouping should be stocked where they would be outside their native range. All of these reproduce very well and they can not be eradicated easily from waters that can support them.

With regard to Kansas, the Genie is out of the bottle and they are almost ubiquitous. Same thing can be said about LMB. If there are gambusia in the creek, they will find their way into your pond eventually.

According to NAS.USGS.gov they have populations in Michigan and Lake Michigan as well.

Last edited by jpsdad; 05/20/20 10:20 PM.
Re: What size forage pond would u build
jpsdad #521328 05/20/20 10:02 PM
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We have had gams in the small seasonal ditches and creeks as long as I can remember. It always amazed me that they could be in a drainage ditch a quarter mile from the main creek. The drainage ditch would dry nearly completely up. Yet when it rained there the gams would be. Even if the ditch completely dried up, as soon as the main creek was flooded enough for a water highway, the gams would be back in that ditch. Way back when I was young had no idea what kind of fish they were. Just called them little minnows. But I am sure they were gams because they were top water mostly just like they are today. We got a ton of them in the little seasonal creek that runs between my ponds right now. I have a rock crossing that I drive the UTV through and hundreds of them scatter each time.

Last edited by snrub; 05/20/20 10:33 PM.

John

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Re: What size forage pond would u build
canyoncreek #521398 05/21/20 09:00 PM
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Gambusia are in every creek and backwater in the central part of Missouri.

They are especially common in the wetlands at Eagle Bluffs CA along the MIssouri River.

Many of the pools there are allowed to dry up completely in the summer, and I expect that many of them freeze to the bottom in a hard winter.

Re: What size forage pond would u build
Snakebite #521410 05/22/20 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Snakebite
I use to get them Post Larval PL30 - 45 days old. They would spend the next 3 weeks in large indoor heated aquaculture tanks with lots of netting. I would then transfer to three grow out ponds 20k per pond. Then they spend the next 60 days being fed and growing. I usually sex them at least 4 times during this period.

I only walk the banks at night maybe twice a week, so I have just the limited input. I will say prawns in general are on the dumb side compared to crayfish as defense. Prawns will not spook and shoot away as much as I have noticed walking with crayfish. At night though they seem to change and are very aware of dangers and will use the backward jet takeoff often.

My next question would be why are you looking for the mature ones?

I would like to see some maturity of them at the sportsfishing pond as larger forage and maybe catch a few for myself. Right now, I have a lot of bushy pondweed so lots of cover for them to hid in, so you think that I might see some maturity in them?


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
Re: What size forage pond would u build
TGW1 #521423 05/22/20 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TGW1
Originally Posted by Snakebite
My next question would be why are you looking for the mature ones?

I would like to see some maturity of them at the sportsfishing pond as larger forage and maybe catch a few for myself. Right now, I have a lot of bushy pondweed so lots of cover for them to hid in, so you think that I might see some maturity in them?

This is my opinion only. I would say if the prawns were stock at 60 day old juveniles and you had good cover. There would be a good chance of some making it to maturity. I also think once the predator fish starts to target prawns it will short work. They are very stupid in the daylight it seems and the predator defense is subpar. I have yet to read Bob`s article, but I`m sure it notes they will die at around 55 degree water.


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Re: What size forage pond would u build
TGW1 #521473 05/23/20 06:32 AM
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Thanks for the info. The 60 day old suggestion really helps me make the call of adding them or not. Price for those and shipping cost and shipping survival will now come into play.


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
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