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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #516013 01/23/20 12:12 AM
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TJ's SMB only have 1 eye.. they all face north in the morning and south in the evening... :-))


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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #516017 01/23/20 01:38 AM
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We're working on raising hopefully a large batch of pellet trained SMB this season employing some methods we've learned over the years, but - per Cody, so many variables influence SMB success it's hard to predict results come Fall. Feel free to reach out anytime I'm happy to help anyone I can on anything I can. I typically only work with NE fishery management companies, so any interstate fish travel regs would have to be researched thoroughly by the client. Raising fish is a hobby I spend a ton of labor on annually - I do it to help buddies achieve their dreams.


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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #516038 01/23/20 04:59 PM
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If you get your perch in the spring2020 only buy a few (15%-25%) as 2"-3"YP. In early spring they are last year's mostly males and slower growing stock. Highly preferred are the 4"-6" of the 2019 or prior year class; larger ones are more money but better growing fish and fish, that especially if pellet fed, will be better pellet eaters thus one reason they are the larger sizes. If the Fish farm has 4"-6" ask you you can buy some of the larger ones in their 2019 harvest. Almost always they have some 6"-7.5" ones available fastest growers of that hatching. You need to request these early because they sell out quickly. In spring all the YP are left overs from the previous fall harvest or last year's year class of perch.

If no PS then 100-125 RES and 250-300YP. If not feeding pellets to the YP, then I would reduce total stocked panfish to 200-280 not 400 in 0.5 ac. RES will very rarely eat pellets. Without pellet feeding all panfish will be eating only invertebrates and small FHM(0.5"-1") so, IMO you will get better initial panfish growth with fewer stocked panfish. Plus the panfish will have adequate food resources to make them as better healthy condition through their 1st winter. Current Jan-Feb2020 Pond Boss mag article "Winter Year Class" by ewest aptly discusses this topic.

A pond's invertebrate community can quickly be depleted of the natural foods when over abundant hungry panfish are present. Overall growth then slows.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/24/20 10:23 AM.

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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #516271 01/30/20 10:30 AM
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Bill Cody, thank you. Snipe, that is hilarious. So is there a way I can add to my ponds invertebrate community or is this a natural occurring thing? I do plan on purchasing some crawfish this spring when they become available. Teehjaeh, I wish I was one of your local buddies. They are very lucky to have you.


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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #516278 01/30/20 03:13 PM
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Most of the invertebrate community arrives by Nature's natural processes either by winged adults, water transfer, or all pond visitors. It can be good to add some critters such as crayfish. It is very hard to get crayfish established by stocking them into an existing fishery due to intense predation. Abundant shoreline shallow cover such as lengthy rocky shorelines is needed for crayfish to thrive.

I prefer the papershell crayfish also known as calico crayfish if those are native to your region. Look up crayfish endemic (naturally occurring) in your state. Then choose one from that list. IMO the genus Orconectes is best for pond dwelling. Another common crayfish in the midwest and north is the northern crayfish technical name Orconectes virile. The northern specie grows bigger and is more aggressive compared to the papershells all have pros & cons. Bigger more southern crayfish are white river and red swamp crayfishes.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/30/20 03:17 PM.

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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #516296 01/30/20 09:36 PM
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5444, I know we've talked via pm in the past and I don't remember your exact local but there is a supplier in south-central KS if TJ is unreachable. TJ first, if that doesn't work let me know and maybe one of us can help you with papershells.


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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #516312 01/31/20 12:08 PM
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Snipe, that would be fantastic. I'll reach out to TJ this spring, thank you.


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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #516426 02/04/20 06:00 PM
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I think this is the thread where someone ask about actual pics of SMB spawning/beds. What you can't see is just out of the pic to the right is a large wood pier .




Last edited by ewest; 02/04/20 06:02 PM.















Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #517479 03/02/20 11:10 AM
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ewest, that is a nice looking SMB. I walked around the pond today and my minnows survived the winter. Well at least the fry did. I have not seen any adult FHM yet. It hit high 60's here yesterday and thought I might have some action down by the pond.


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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #517496 03/02/20 09:18 PM
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The adults tend to stay secluded in other areas. The only time I see adults is when I start feeding but they are obviously there.
When you start "not" seeing the groups in many numbers you'll now the adults are getting extremely thin.


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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
Snipe #517533 03/03/20 01:10 PM
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Makes sense Snipe. I plan on adding another 5# of FHM when I introduce my YP, PS, and RES this spring. That will bring my total of FHM to 15#. Hopefully they will pull of some spawns this spring and summer before I introduce some predators next fall.


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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #519560 04/19/20 06:45 AM
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Pond is doing well! I hope all forum members are doing the same and in good health. No fish yet other than FHM. Although I see a really big wake every now and then. I hope it's a FHM. Frog and toads are spawning. I had a few frogs die after ice out, and then found them with missing appendages later on in the day. So I believe a turtle or two have found my pond. I messaged Keystone and they said they were still open, but I haven't received a confirmation email on when fish would be ready. I need to hit TJ or Snipe up for some papershells too. I'm going to try to attach a pic, but I have not been able to see other pics that people have posted since the new forum update.

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5444
Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #519582 04/19/20 01:17 PM
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Try Hartleys out of KS for crayfish, if you can't find papershells - northerns will work, they grow larger and do burrow but they work ok for me. Be careful about stocking crays into ponds with zero predators - crays left unmanaged by predation can lead to turbidity issues. Not saying it's GOING to happen, but it certainly CAN happen - trust me, been there done that several times. I'd wait until you have some macrophytes established and some predator fish stocked. YP and SMB will hammer YOY crays - but I've found that sunfish alone cannot keep up with cray reproduction.

If Hartleys doesn't sell/ship we need Brettski chime in - he had papershells shipped to him in OH [I think].

Last edited by teehjaeh57; 04/19/20 01:18 PM.

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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #520519 05/05/20 07:10 AM
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I wanted to give TJ a quick shout out for his help and expertise. This guy really knows his stuff (pond savant) and I wish I lived closer to him. I realize we have quite a few pond savants on this forum, however he took the time to help me solve a weeping dam issue. He took my information, dissected it, and formulated a plan to help solve the problem. TJ, I truly appreciate your time and will get you the remaining data you requested.


5444
Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #520534 05/05/20 10:18 AM
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5444, the forum is fixed, can you repost the picture from your post above?
The 'wake' you see in the pond is not a turtle. Concern you may have a predator already (LMB?) You should soak a minnow trap, or make your own, or try to set up a seine net in the shallows and catch some minnows. Put the biggest minnow under a bobber and catch that cruising predator and let us know what it is! IF you have LMB already then your plan for stocking crayfish may be able to change a bit early.

Last edited by canyoncreek; 05/05/20 11:41 AM.
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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
canyoncreek #520537 05/05/20 11:20 AM
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CanyonCreek, this is the last pic I can find on my computer. I will get you a better one soon. I will try to catch what I see every now and then. I figured if it was a bass it would ravage the FHM when the come up to feed. I haven't seen that happening or the ripples lately, but I'm sure its still there. I also need to catch some crawfish so I can get them identified.

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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #521413 05/22/20 06:42 AM
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So I got my fish in from Keystone the other day. 150 RES, 150 perch, 150 PSS, and some more FHM. All survived the trip. All was well over the next few days. I would occasionally find a few dead fish here and there over the next few days. A few perch, a few RES, and a few FHM would randomly be dead on shore. Things were fine, I head out last Sunday to collect some firewood and it's pouring rain. I get home to check on pond and I find my fish (perch and FHM) were swimming up hill through the water runoff that was entering my pond and I had fish laying all over my pasture. I start gathering as many fish as I can and begin putting them back; only to see them try to swim out again. I send momma to the store and have her buy two seine nets that I stake and anchor with rocks so my fish do not commit harry carry. I wish I would have taken a pic of the fish trying to swim through the net, but I was too busy saving fish. I did take some pics of my solution to the problem.

Last edited by 5444; 05/22/20 08:47 AM.

5444
Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #521414 05/22/20 06:50 AM
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Had to resize pics.

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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #521588 05/25/20 01:40 PM
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Found this guy the other day.

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5444
Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #521597 05/25/20 04:12 PM
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Sounds like it might be an oxygen crash, but I'm no expert. Heavy rains can trigger turnovers when conditions are ripe.


8ac E Tx, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19, 200# RBT 12/19, 10k TFS 3/20, 100#TP 5/20




Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #521655 05/26/20 01:29 PM
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I think you hit the nail on the head anthropic. I had a heavy downpour again last night and this morning had 6 dead perch and a few FHM. Should I get some aeration going at night?


5444
Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #521728 05/27/20 12:46 PM
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5444, my pond is more than likely not too far from yours. (Near Hannibal Mo). You’ve received some great advice from thought leaders here on the forum. I went with similar stocking plan, and am really enjoying it, for the most part. I added HSB, but had no survivors, so not a factor. I also added some HBG. They turned out to be a pain in the backside. They multiply too rapidly for my SMB to control. I think you’ll be happy you left them out. (If I read this correctly, you are). The only benefit is that grandkids can always catch something if there are HBG in a pond. I do also have golden shiners, and am glad I do. I had millions of FHM, but they disappeared fairly quickly. The golden shiners are hanging in there.
My YP were feed trained, and continue to come to the feeder.
If you find a source for walleye please let me know. The two hatcheries near me have continually said they will get some in, but have not done so.
Good luck with your pond, and all the rain we’ve had recently..


5 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (way too many), SMB, and HSB (rumored..)
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #521938 05/31/20 07:09 AM
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SetterGuy, my pond is near Macomb, IL and I did leave out the HBG. Although I did add Pumpkinseeds. Hopefully they do not turn into a problem too. I also added about 60-80 golden shiners a few weeks ago, they were the bigger 4'' plus so hopefully they will pull off a spawn. I'm acquiring the walleye from Keystone Hatchery; they are located in Richmond, IL.
I started aerating last night for the first time and found 3-4 dead shiners this morning. It was only shiners and thought that was strange. I had some family over the last few days and the kids were fishing off the dock catching perch. One perch had the tail of a FHM sticking out of its mouth. I'm glad I listened to the experts here on the forum too, their wisdom is priceless.

TJ was instrumental in helping with my weeping dam issue. I can't thank him enough.


5444
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Re: Finally pulled the trigger!
5444 #521939 05/31/20 07:16 AM
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Richmond IL is about 2.5 hrs from our pond. I’ll have to research if I can transport them that far without an oxygenator.
Thanks for the info.


5 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (way too many), SMB, and HSB (rumored..)
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
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