Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations When do you give up on LMB?

I'm nearing the end of my tether re LMB. Stocked aggressive Northern strain and supposedly elite Lone Star Legacy Florida strain. Fed and fed for years, in rough terrain & rougher weather. Fertilized, ag limed. Placed both natural and artificial structure for fish. When low BG reproduction survival, had pond plants installed to give shelter for their YOY. Bought and installed floating islands to improve periphyton production. Added PK shrimp to boost panfish numbers for bass forage. Stocked FHM to feed little bass, golden shiners and TFS to feed medium sized, BG, RES, CNBG for all sizes. Culled over 200 LMB one year (though only 80 so far this year) Stocked small forage sized rainbow trout. Stocked TP almost every year. Even had a forage pond built for CNBG reproduction which were placed in main BOW.

And yet while every other fish at my place has done great, from hybrid stripers to tilapia, trout, and panfish, the one constant is the failure to achieve good relative weight lunker bass. Hasn't happened, and I fear it never will. Every time I have a survey, no matter what I've done, the same results come back. Perhaps some ponds just aren't suitable for growing big LMB, regardless.

Maybe I should stock alligator gar. Sigh.

Anybody else who's shifted gears away from LMB? What was your experience?

My immediate thought is that gar and HSB can’t control bluegills. Or, I don’t think they can.

I'm sure you're right about gar & HSB not controlling bluegill that spawn five times a year. Looking for answers as to why I can grow everything great except for bass!

HSB are hybrid striped bass ? Maybe they are better at eating most of the food that a large mouth would eat. I know nothing about them but boy it sounds like you should have some big large mouth.

I withheld comment on anthropic's "I'm shocked.." thread because I had no idea why he wouldn't have impressive LMB with all the efforts he put in, especially in East Texas.

We've never really had anyone absorb all the advice here and then not achieve something at least close to what they want.

I almost wonder if it's best to just get back to some basics for a year or two and then see what shakes out.

Knowing the effort and expense that you have invested, I feel your pain. You deserve the pond you dreamed of, if for no other reason, simply because you've paid the price in time, effort, and expense. I took your proposed future tack as humor in a difficult situation. What are you going to do?

after reading some of your other posts, I can't help but at least consider maybe the RBT really did steal some of the LMB growth from the last few months. Of course that may not be enough growth to make up the difference from what you think should be there.

Kind of along the lines of what I'm thinking when I say 'back to the basics.'

Maybe drop all non-native species for some period of time (Tilapia, RBT, PK Shrimp, etc.)

Also, I would think American Pond Weed would not really impede the LMB from eating as much Bluegill as they wanted.

Don't take this personally, Anthropic, but somebody has to be the left hand side of the curve.

We give and get advice here that works most of the time, on average, but (pick one)
1) "It all depends"
2) YMMV
3) Maybe LMB just don't like you.

Doing everything right doesn't always ensure success in life.

What's your next best pond dream?

I don't take it personally. As you say, somebody has to be on the left hand of the curve, and there's certainly no reason it shouldn't be me. Heck, some people have far worse experiences, what with leaky dams, huge fish kills, and otters. I don't have those issues. Really, most of my fish are doing very well. The pond is a dream come true and, like my wife, far better than what I deserve. But you know how it is, you always want what you don't have. Guess I'll keep learning & trying to improve, however frustrating it is at times.

Sometime you have to make and appreciate the lemonade. I wanted a nice YP pond and ended up with 12"+ BGxRES.

Thanks for the response, fellow pondmeisters. I think you're right about APW, in and of itself. But I've got other stuff growing in it, bushy pondweed & algae, that make it tougher for LMB to get to the panfish. Maybe I'll rake some out & treat with Reward in spots. I like plant cover, but it may be getting out of hand.

Wbuff, you make a good point about the rainbows. Trout were great fun this winter, but like hybrid stripers they are feed hogs. Scandalous at it is to admit, I prefer eating LMB and BG anyway. Easier to fillet, too. So if I add RBT again, there won't be as many this time.

Well, that is quite an accomplishment! I've never caught a panfish longer than 10.5" in my life. Bet you have a great time on light tackle, big panfish are a handful.

What are your LMB averaging WR? If they are low, and your forage base is multilayered plus feeding is high, you just need to keep culling those green carp. Too many mouths to feed.

Do you have a dock?

Do you live on site or visit multiple times weekly?

If yes, ping me and we can talk. I have a plan for you and guarantee you'll have a WR 150+ LMB by end of season if you're willing to put in the work weekly. This process has worked wonders for me and Condello.

It's guaranteed to work as good as the Shamwow.....

Have you seen any photos of Bruce's fish lately, half pint? He's got state record RES, LMB, and Black Crappie.

Holy cow! I know he's the mad scientist, but this is amazing.

Thanks for the offer. I'll msg you. I'm pretty much willing to try anything that doesn't involve stuffing lead sinkers down LMB gullets. (Tungsten I might try...)

I visit our pond several times a week. We have a dock and a total of four working feeders, three on the main BOW including one on the dock, and one for the forage pond. Also have electricity available on the dock.

teehjaeh, are they posted on here somewhere?

There's no need to fillet those nasty trout before you eat them.

Gut em, gill em, stuff some onion and butter in the cavity, season with lemon pepper, then wrap em in aluminum foil and toss em on the coals for a few minutes.

Done like that they're almost fit to eat.

Almost. I guess I've got too much Louisiana blood to get away from at least pan-frying. Those LMB and BG fillets are sweet!

Bruce's instagram is great for photos of these plus the other monsters he pulls out of private and public waters.

So it's especially effective for wipers?

I'm a little late to the game. Who is Bruce? Also can you put a link up to his Instagram?

Opps....this is a reply to RStringer -

Bruce Condello Instagram

Bruce is the mad scientist who either destroys the planet or makes fish grow in ways God never intended.

He's capable of doing both.

I believe Bruce's arms have gotten shorter and his lips fuller since he went on Instagram.

Frank, ponds can be money pits for sure when it comes to growing numbers of large lmb. Frustrated, been there done that! I think you have a great place from what I have seen. What, you have a 5 yr old pond? You have the genetics, just give it a little more time I think. Keep the pressure up on the small lmb and I think you will stumble into a large lmb or two. And enjoy those bg, res, hsb and the bass. As I set back and watch the guest that I let fish the pond, they have a great time, whether it be lmb, bg res or hsb they are after and I don't have all the large lmb that I would like to have. I am betting you have a couple of them out there too. Take a kid fishing and they will show you how great your place is.

That's how we always do our trout. Now do that with a Brook Trout and no other fish quite seems fit to eat!!

I've pan-fried a few trout. Butchered em the same way I would for grilling. Roll em in whatever crumbs you like and toss em in the grease.
The scales on a trout are so small that they just fry up crispy with the skin. But it still tastes like trout. I don't think there's any fix for that.

As always, there lots of variables. There's a big difference between hatchery stocked after they've been stocked two weeks versus 6 months, there's a big difference between hatchery stocked trout and true wild trout and, in my experience, big difference between pellet fed trout versus no pellets fed. Aside from those differences the real fix for the trout taste is Brook Trout. They aren't even technically a trout, they are a Char. I know plenty of folks who refuse to eat trout unless it's Brook Trout. IF (big IF) Anthropic ever tries trout again, maybe he can try some Brookies - if you can source them. They won't grow as fast or as large as rainbows so should stay edible size for LMB - but that's not back to basics. Sorry for the hijack.

I'm with you on that. Trout park trout = yech. Trout that have been in the river for a few months are pretty tasty.
It's not easy catching those here in Missouri. Fish that see 100 hooks every day quickly get caught or get smart and very hard to catch.

Are we harvesting bass in this pond? And how many surface acres?

8 acres. Yes, anthropic does cull bass. IIRC, 200 last year, maybe 80 so far this year??

So, brah, where are you from........(FREAK)

I’m from your future

Has anthropic figured out ways to tell females from males? Even an 80% accuracy rate would help with the process.

No spoilers, please. I want to be surprised.

Trust me, you will be

I sure hope you're talking largemouth bass.

You’re right. That statement, taken out of context would be worthy of starting a new thread.

That's what she said.

On a serious note, I'd love to be able to correctly identify males from female LMB. Also those that are taking lots of feed, Florida strain vs Northern, and the telltale signs of an older small fish that will never do well vs a young one that probably will. Right now I mostly look for length (over 14 inches) and body condition (sumo wrestlers preferred to marathoners) before throwing them back.

One of the inherent flaws with looking at body condition is that there is a 6 to 8 week period every year that a female largemouth bass can give the illusion of having a low relative weight because they have deposited eggs. If you could get to even an 80% accuracy with sex identification then you could harvest twice as many fish, but have a resultant significant decrease in females harvested. This would leave you a lot more fish with high-end potential but also simultaneously decrease intra-species competition.

Good point. I have heard that it is very difficult to sex LMB outside of spawning season, but maybe that's not true.

I think it’s time we all learn together. Let’s find some images showing vents.
Remember… We are only looking for 80% accuracy. Keeping a few females during your harvest would be OK as long as those aren’t fish with exceptional relative weights. If you have to check two boxes… i.e. must look like a male, and must have less than ideal relative weight, then we’re getting somewhere.

Yeah. I don't mind throwing back a fat male occasionally, nor keeping an underperforming female once in a while.

That’s exactly how I wanted you to look at this.