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Hello all, I've come here to learn. What a great resource this site is. I'm learning a lot already.

I'm trying to help a friend of mine restock his lake. Previous owner pumped a good bit of water out of it in 2011 during the big drought, so it went dry. It's currently almost full and covers about 50 surface acres. It's not an incredibly deep lake - maybe 12-15' at the deepest. Shallow sloping banks, so it's less than 5-6' deep around the edges. Looking at historical images on Google Earth, it's about 30 acres most of the time. It used to be great fishing, but it has not been restocked since going dry. I took kayaks out recently and paddled around and fished. Zero bites. Zero sightings of fish. No swirls anywhere. No baitfish in the shallows anywhere on the lake. The lake appears to have few, if any, fish. So golden opportunity to restock it and do it right. Owner's goals are to grow big bass, but also wants easily catchable fish for his grandkids. He's not much of a fisherman himself.

Based on what I'm learning here and in talking to some other friends who have done well stocking their lakes and ponds, here is what I'm thinking so far. Any advice for changes would be appreciated though.

Establish bait fish food chain this year. Stock FHM, CNBG, and RES this spring. Stock a mix of Florida bass and native and/or F-1s next year, for a balance of growth potential and catchability. But how many of all of those should we stock? HUGE question with a large lake. It seems to me that we should stock it for the 30 acres that it typically covers. It's not normally this wet in West Texas. He won't be pumping out of it, but it's still not going to stay full all the time. The expense to stock even 30 acres won't be small. So what would be a recommended stocking rate for the baitfish? I know the FHMs will reproduce prolifically. The sunfish less so, but still should produce lots of fry themselves, with no predators in the water for a while.

Am I on the right track? How many baitfish should we be stocking? Are FHM, CNBG and RES what you'd stock, or something else? And then how many bass next year? Don't want to over stock and get overpopulated too quickly, but also don't want to stock too few and take years to get decent fishing.

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First I want to tell you I am not even close to being an expert or even giving advice, but I have a 60 acre lake and I can tell you what I would do over. Get as many bait fish in as soon as you can. Spend your money here. All sizes I think would be better than just small fish. This may help keep unwanted fish from getting a good start. When you want to put your bass in, If you get larger fish ( 10 to 15 inches) I believe you will get more for your money. They will spawn which will result in more small fish quicker.
If I would of stocked the way the state recommended it would of cost me $35000 for the small sized fish. I just bought what I could afford at the time. I have maybe spent $3000 to $4000 on fish and I still have a hard time catching any nice fish. I am going on 8 years now. Good luck and put some pictures up.


61 acre water shed lake. bass, channel cat, black crappie, wiper, walleye, redear sunfish, blue catfish and bluegill. To many bullhead and common carp
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Thanks, nehunter. I can definitely see where $3-4K wouldn't go very far in a large body of water. I'm guessing a minimum of $15K would be needed to get things going successfully in my buddy's lake.

This thread has been helpful to me so far: http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=499845

I didn't want to hijack that one with my own questions though.

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TBH, I wouldn't cash out just yet.. There's other ways this can happen, it may not be the balancing act that Lusk mentioned but you can still start a fishery.
One thing I would consider is reproduction being inhibited by an out of balance forage population and with this you'll have good growth out of initial predator stock. This can go 2 ways, 1 being stunted LMB because of an overabundance of smaller BG that don't achieve the sizes needed for suitable return. 2 being a case where predators stocked have a large number of BG that stay ahead of them in proper sizes needed but that may be harder to balance than Bob's recommendation.
I see nehunter stating that "had he gone with State recommendations..." I don't deal much with NE biologists or their theories other than Percids so I don't know what they would recommend but I'll suggest an option.
3-5lbs FHM/acre
150-175 3-5" BG/acre
50-60 4-6" LMB/acre spring of next year. In TX those yr 1 fish may be 8-12" which some of those Bass would catch up and start cleaning a few of the smaller original stockers before yrs end but the next year class of BG will be growing fast.
This would be something similar to a recommended stocking in my location but fish don't grow the same here for obvious reasons but I can't help but think you could get a good start with similar numbers.

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Thanks for the reply, Snipe. Your recommended stocking rates are a lot lower than the recommended rates I was looking at on the hatchery's website - and would certainly be more affordable. Admittedly, I'm new at this. But it did appear that their recommendations were what you'd want to end up with, but they were recommending stocking at those levels instantly rather than stocking enough to grow into the desired levels over a year or two. For instance, the recommendation I saw there for FHM was 10-100#/acre. BG was up to 1,000/acre. Bass up to 100/acre. That would cost a fortune for 30-50 acres.

At the same time, it would be wasted time and money to not stock enough of everything and to end up not getting any results. Trying to find the right balance seems to be the hardest part, especially for larger bodies of water.


Last edited by TBHShane; 04/16/20 09:20 PM.
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Keep in mind all 3 species listed for most of their life are littoral zone dwellers (close to shore and cover associated with).
Now, if the entire pond is set up with habitat and proper depth contours throughout the whole pond with useable structure throughout, then higher (much higher) stocking rates would make more sense.
In Kansas (we are not in this case) the highest recommended stocking rate for a pond from a State biologist will be maybe 250/acre for BG, most will suggest 200 max in a new pond. FHM can be put in in about any number you want over a few pounds per acre, they will feed something even if they don't have enough habitat to support spawning by ALL fhm stocked when predators are put in. I hear 100/acre on LMB all the time from our bio's in diverse impoundments. If it's a bowl shape, 25-30 per acre are sufficient in larger Body impoundments because less area of the open water is used so it's a "measured" littoral area.
Down south, when TFS come in to the picture, as Lusk mentioned, it changes behavioral patterns of both Bass and BG.
We don't have that issue here, Alewives are used here with GSD and it tends to affect only Percids in our local regions.
When you get into larger bodies such as yours, Primary habitat and secondary habitat become more of a separate issue/area and there are more complex habits formed by your populations which become harder to predict by even the most experienced of fisheries managers.
I would also mention that it IS GOOD to find reputable suppliers that have references to back their recommendations. Not all private sector fish farms are created equal... some want to sell fish, some want to sell knowledge and satisfaction. Bob and his organization are in the second group and highly respected in this industry. That south country is a different animal compared to what I deal with here and I would lean hard to follow a Lusk approved source.

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What is your time line? The "NORMAL" recommendation for West Texas stocking is 1,000 BG, 3 to 4 inch, a couple hundred redear sunfish and 5 to 10 pounds of fathead minnows per acre. Next year, add 3 or 4 inch bass. That assumes no drought and a plentiful supply of forage for the bass. Shad are a good idea but only after you assure that the LMB survived enough to handle them.

Have your water quality texted before proceeding.

My biggest concern, and why I emphasized NORMAL, is that 50 relatively shallow acres, after a rainy year, can shrink pretty quickly leaving an overstocked water hole with too many fish for the available oxygen. When the O2 crashes, fish die and somebody has a big floating mess to deal with. Abilene, like everywhere else in West Texas, is not known for consistent rains. If it were me, and it's not, I would probably go with about 1/2 of the above recommendation. If you learn any new rain dances, let me know. The ones I've used in the past haven't worked out very well.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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Originally Posted by Snipe
I see nehunter stating that "had he gone with State recommendations..." I don't deal much with NE biologists or their theories other than Percids so I don't know what they would recommend but I'll suggest an option.
3-5lbs FHM/acre
150-175 3-5" BG/acre
50-60 4-6" LMB/acre spring of next year.


I think this is a very good recommendation and one that I would follow. It leverages growth of a limited number of BG to put the lake in the best situation for producing many BG YOY when the LMB are introduced. This condition should maintain itself very well for several years provided there is no unusual mortality of the BG original stockers. BG harvest should probably be delayed for at least 3 years ... but since the focus is big LMB, this is not a problem. My impression is that the lake isn't going to see a lot of fishing pressure. This is a much more affordable option than 1000 BG per acre and will produce more BG YOY than the that larger number. So if the another drought hits and he has to do it all over again the time value of the money saved may actually pay for it.


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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Thank you, guys. This is all very helpful.

I talked with Todd Overton this morning, and he is going to send me a recommendation soon. He was very helpful and knowledgeable. His thinking is to stock minnows and BG ASAP, and then stock bass this year in July, rather than holding off until next year on the bass. Main reason being that BG might be big enough next year to hammer new bass fingerlings, if stocked then. Stocking larger bass would alleviate that risk, but he said he doesn't always have 4-6" bass available later in the summer.

He also didn't think that catchability would be a big issue in a large lake that doesn't get a lot of fishing pressure, so Floridas only would be his recommendation. Mostly for growth potential as well as have some fish of some value down the road if/when it comes time to remove some.

Thoughts?

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Well for me. the biggest risk is too much BG offspring growth before the LMB are introduced. They would compete with LMB for minnows and may outgrow their gape. For that reason, I would probably delay the introduction of BG until September if I were stocking under the plan Snipe suggested.

As for 2" - 3" LMB being at risk with BG, I think this is possible but I also think the mortality will be very low if lots are minnows are available at the time of the LMB stocking and particularly if the numbers of BG are low. This being because encounters will be lower and because the LMB should be more difficult to capture than FHM.

It is better to have the LMB growing on FHM when the BG YOY start coming on line anyway. So there is no need to have BG in the BOW when the LMB are introduced as long as you stock brooder sized BG when the LMB need their offspring. For example, the timeline could go like this ...


April, Fertilize and Stock FHM

May, Find a place nearby by with gambusia add as many as you can being careful to select only Gams. They will reproduce prolifically when temps are high and FHM are slowing down producing as many as 4 reproducing generations of offspring in the same season. Only a few pounds could produce thousands of pounds of forage in the relatively predator free environment.

Early Jun, stock LMB fingerlings.

Mid July, add 15/lbs per acre of Todd's beautiful CNBG in >6" sizes or Snipe's recof 175/ac for 3"-6" CNBG. They will begin producing YOY as the minnows numbers are falling and could produce two broods. By the following late spring these CNBG will be at the biomass appropriate for a BG nursery/forage pond.

This timeline requires stocking at different times and maybe more than one transport fee. You may be able to pick up the FHM and LMB on independent trips and then have the CNBG transported. The LMB fingerlings would not be exposed to CNBG when they were vulnerable in this scenario.

The costs-

30 ac* 15lb * $15/lb = $6750 BG
OR
30 ac * 175* $0.80 = $4200 BG

30 ac *50 * $2 = $3000 BH

30 * 5* 13 = $1950 FHM

Depending which BG scenario, the cost ranges from $9150 to $11700. If $15000 is the budget and you want to spend it then I would lean towards more FHM and perhaps conserving funds for fertilization next year.

Last edited by jpsdad; 04/17/20 11:14 AM.

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I would delay stocking bass until the next year. Then,I wouldn’t go with bass minnows, I would want 3 to 4 inch. Bluegills won’t mess with them.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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Thanks, y'all. I appreciate the help.


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