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Re: Walleye
john kelsey #513112 10/22/19 09:51 PM
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wbuffetjr
With respect to WAE spawning, our (Colorado) Parks and Wildlife Department has been netting and removing fertile WAE here on the West Slope of Colorado and releasing sterile WAE. The intent is to reduce the risk of WAE escaping reservoirs, reproducing in the Colorado River tributaries, and predating several species of native fishes.

An example I can give is our McPhee and Narraguinnep Reservoirs here in southwest Colorado. McPhee is and impoundment of the Dolores River; Narraguinnep is in the San Juan River drainage. Both of these rivers are in the Colorado system.

I have no idea if sterile (possible triploid?) walleye are commercially available in this state. If they are, and you chose to stock a few, then at least they would not increase in number in your high mountain trout lake. It could be that a small number of sterile WAE would be a useful tool to limit brook trout recruitment, if that were ever to become an issue for you.

Re: Walleye
john kelsey #513117 10/22/19 10:48 PM
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Interesting...


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Re: Walleye
john kelsey #513121 10/23/19 05:33 AM
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4Corners - great idea! You read my mind. With they way Brook Trout are known to overpopulate and stunt I was thinking about a predator that could help with harvest, but not take over. Tiger Musky is an option but they get so big I think they might eat bigger fish than I would want taken plus WAE are supposedly so good to eat.

Of course all this assumes I can get the Brookies to survive AND then reproduce. Also assuming I cannot handle the harvest myself - I personally think Brook Trout is the best eating fish ever.

I will check around for sterile WAE just out of curiosity.


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Re: Walleye
john kelsey #513128 10/23/19 09:03 AM
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wbuffetjr-I'm right with you on the tastiness of brookies. While on high country backpacking trips, I've had the incredible opportunity to cook and eat golden trout, cutthroat trout, and brook trout in the very same meal. They're all fantastic; the brookies have the edge though in the flavor department.

Walleye are every bit as delicious as advertised. However, there is just something extra about eating trout, cooked over an open fire, that have been feasting on scuds.

I commend you for your diligence and progress towards you goal of a brook trout lake.

Re: Walleye
john kelsey #513134 10/23/19 09:52 AM
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I will check around for sterile WAE just out of curiosity.
To my knowledge, this is a small scale experiment.
When you split the chromosome into 3 after fertilization with 2800-3000psi, you cut the percentage of hatch in half.
Best case would be 25% of eggs fertilized-best case.
This is going to be a state or federal hatchery only deal.


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Re: Walleye
john kelsey #513140 10/23/19 11:37 AM
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If someone skilled in handling Walleye was able to help, would you be able to wait till spawning season and separate males from females so you could be supplied with and stock single sex walleye?

Re: Walleye
john kelsey #513142 10/23/19 11:57 AM
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Just an idea to check out - not a suggestion.

In different bodies of water the survival rate of Walleye fry to adulthood may range from 1% to 10%, depending on predation and other factors. That figure is basically the same for stocked Saugeye fry. With Saugeye, a hybrid, however, only a small percentage of the fish that reach adulthood will be capable of producing viable eggs. Then, of course, if those eggs aren't deposited in the proper spawning areas, under the right conditions, and fertilized with milt from that equally small percentage of male Saugeyes who are virile, the whole point is moot.
In the right body of water, with the right conditions, Saugeye can and do reproduce, but in a limited way, and not in a way to sustain a population without stocking.

I have no idea how a saugeye tastes.
















Re: Walleye
canyoncreek #513148 10/23/19 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
If someone skilled in handling Walleye was able to help, would you be able to wait till spawning season and separate males from females so you could be supplied with and stock single sex walleye?


Absolutely. But, males are not sexually mature until year 2 at earliest, generally around the 11-12" mark and Females at year 3-4 around the 18-19" mark.

ewest, most folks can't tell the difference in SAE vs WAE in Taste, and surprisingly, most think they have a WAE in-hand and it's a SAE when caught.
I might add that SAE can be sexed also but getting a hand on stock is nearly impossible in any number.


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Re: Walleye
john kelsey #513152 10/23/19 03:33 PM
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Any sign of the original stockers john?

Re: Walleye
Snipe #513165 10/23/19 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: Snipe
I will check around for sterile WAE just out of curiosity.
To my knowledge, this is a small scale experiment.
When you split the chromosome into 3 after fertilization with 2800-3000psi, you cut the percentage of hatch in half.
Best case would be 25% of eggs fertilized-best case.
This is going to be a state or federal hatchery only deal.

I did a little digging on this and what they are doing is genetically modifying females to be sterile-Trojan males if you will.
The problem with this is they are removing "X" fish and replacing with "X" fish. They still have to eat, they still can breach the system and if managed in the most common forms we use, they are restocking whether the fish is harvested or the fish breached and is now in another BOW.
They (Milford percid techs) tell me it costs more to genetically modify than to stock in any other form.
It would make sense to me-with this information-to stock male only WAE at the 11-12" size if someone decided to try it.
Seldom does a male ever exceed 3lbs, 17-19" so you'd know what size forage they would/could consume.


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Re: Walleye
Snipe #513188 10/24/19 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: Snipe
Originally Posted By: Snipe
I will check around for sterile WAE just out of curiosity.
To my knowledge, this is a small scale experiment.
When you split the chromosome into 3 after fertilization with 2800-3000psi, you cut the percentage of hatch in half.
Best case would be 25% of eggs fertilized-best case.
This is going to be a state or federal hatchery only deal.

I did a little digging on this and what they are doing is genetically modifying females to be sterile-Trojan males if you will.
The problem with this is they are removing "X" fish and replacing with "X" fish. They still have to eat, they still can breach the system and if managed in the most common forms we use, they are restocking whether the fish is harvested or the fish breached and is now in another BOW.
They (Milford percid techs) tell me it costs more to genetically modify than to stock in any other form.
It would make sense to me-with this information-to stock male only WAE at the 11-12" size if someone decided to try it.
Seldom does a male ever exceed 3lbs, 17-19" so you'd know what size forage they would/could consume.


Thanks for the info Snipe. I don't think the males would get big enough to help me. I hope to be able to grow 3lb+ Brookies. I was considering a second predator with a 10lb or so potential that could help me harvest the 6"-10"ish Brook Trout. WAE seem like too much trouble to try to make work. Probably safer to use Tiger Trout since they are sterile.

Didn't mean to hijack this thread.


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Re: Walleye
john kelsey #513206 10/24/19 09:55 AM
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Go female only....:-))


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Re: Walleye
john kelsey #515407 01/02/20 05:09 PM
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Interesting --- So, to get back to John's post about walleye in ponds.. The Hypoxia CO Trout Thread is great - but high-jacked this one wink

I released 20 in a 1.5 ac pond and 25 in a 2.5 ac pond in November.

Video of snakes at Fenders FH

I know I have to take out 'some' Small - Med LMB 12"-20" to make room for these predator's so the question is "how many need to come out" which is prolly dependent on forage.

This spring I added a shitton of FHM GSH YP. Both ponds have BG and LMB. Plan to add more FMD and GSH in the smaller pond and tilapia in the big pond every year - Walleye every 2 years in the same amounts with a plan to start a walleye harvest in 2 years.

Please throw stones at the above plan(s)... Thanks for the forum!



Last edited by Stressless; 01/02/20 05:18 PM.

8 Ponds in Mid-East Ohio, three streams that merge to 1.

Fishbowl Pond - 1.5 acre, family swimming hole, 22'
Figure 8 Pond - 1.25 acre, 15'
Long Pond - 2.5 acre 20'
Re: Walleye
john kelsey #515409 01/02/20 05:22 PM
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Save your $ on FHM stocking and invest in other forage types or boost investment on YP and GSH stocking. FHM are an expensive snack in an established fishery. Too bad the hatcheries never dispense this advice. A guy I know in NE does 90% of his fish business selling FHM to established fisheries all over the state, primarly HOA's that have little to zero awareness of fishery management but have an annual budget to spend. It's a great business, for him I guess...but I won't sell FHM to any of my clients due to my perceived breach in ethics unless it's part of our initial stocking strategy. GSH, Shrimp, Crayfish, YP??? You bet, all day long, and with a clear conscience!

Regarding your WE stocking, I recommend periodic supplemental stocking programs to my clients. Depending on catch and growth rates it will dictate the number to ladder stock. Density of apex predator population is an important factor to keep in mind - we don't want to deplete the forage base or all predator suffer from low growth rates and poor body condition. Still, I'd wager your 2.5 AC fishery could handle a standing population of around 50-75 adult WE provided the forage base is strong, and up to 50 in the 1.5 AC fishery. These are very broad recommendations - allow your sampling results [frequency of angling] and WR to determine the right qty for your unique fishery. Your fisheries may tell a much different story and you'll need to adjust these numbers.

I think you may face a bit of a challenge with presence of LMB in both fisheries to get the WE population strong, but I have fished some decent WE fisheries with LMB present so it can be done.

Hope some of this helps...I'd double down on the GSH and YP stocking if your predator WR and growth rates are suffering and cull any LMB under 100 for starters. If the YP are too expensive focus on the GSH.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Re: Walleye
ewest #515717 01/14/20 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: ewest
Just an idea to check out - not a suggestion.

In different bodies of water the survival rate of Walleye fry to adulthood may range from 1% to 10%, depending on predation and other factors. That figure is basically the same for stocked Saugeye fry. With Saugeye, a hybrid, however, only a small percentage of the fish that reach adulthood will be capable of producing viable eggs. Then, of course, if those eggs aren't deposited in the proper spawning areas, under the right conditions, and fertilized with milt from that equally small percentage of male Saugeyes who are virile, the whole point is moot.
In the right body of water, with the right conditions, Saugeye can and do reproduce, but in a limited way, and not in a way to sustain a population without stocking.

I have no idea how a saugeye tastes.


As I was reading thru this thread I was wondering about the possibility of saugeye only stocking and the reproductive capability. Thank you ewest for that input. Very interesting information and one of the reasons I come to this forum regularly.


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Re: Walleye
john kelsey #515724 01/14/20 12:40 PM
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NEDOC, in our area it would be extremely rare for triploid SAE to reproduce. In 20 years we have confirmation of recruitment in 2 impoundments (in KS), the first was 11 yrs ago using diploid stock, and last year we found recruitment in a 135ac BOW from Triploid stock. It's extremely rare in most areas but more common in areas where both sauger and walleye exist. Not talking about natural hybrids, I'm talking about SAE recruits.

Last edited by Snipe; 01/14/20 12:41 PM.

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