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Got a 15 1/4 inch 2 lb. 1/2 oz. Yellow perch out of the pond today! What a pig with a big belly! The perch was measured on a board and my scale is a certified scale so it's legit.

Hope to have a pic on my website if my server every fixes it where I can have access to my website again. Everyone else but me can get to my website, and I've already had a technician out to verify it's not my computer. Apparently it has something to do with my DSL line as my wife can't get the website on her computer either.

I put these perch in as mostly females at 8.5 to 9.5 inches in the spring of 2002 and they typically get up to 10.5 to 12 inches by fall of the first year. When planted they were 2 or 3 years olds and this one should now be going on 5 or 6 years old. They're feed trained perch but my bass don't let them feed on the pellets for the most part.

However they did get good initial growth on pellets before I got them.

Bill Cody says he can see 16 inchers swimming around in his pond under the ice but he doesn't want to bother them to see how big they will grow. I believe you Bill but seeing in the water and measuring are two different things! \:D


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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We were watching the perch come off the bottom and bite in 6 to 8 ft of water today. Was pulling the lure away from the biggest ones since we were not interested in jaw jerking the largest ones. Just keeping 9"-11" fish for a couple of meals. I will accidently catch one of the biggest ones one of these days and then get an actual measurement for you. Stay tuned. They will be bigger next year!


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Bill,

Sounds like a fish story to me. :p


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Well, I have a comment for both of you Master PerchMeisters. I'd REALLY like to know what longevity you get on those big perch!

We think, but don't know for sure, that our 14 inch yellow perch in public lakes are very young, fast growing fish. To the best of our knowledge, most don't survive past age 5 or 6. (We can't know for "sure" because we're aging fish from otoliths/earstones, and thus can't follow individual fish once they are killed for aging. Catch-22.)

Anyway, I'd really be interested to see both of you guys keep track of perch ages if you can. If they live for a few years at these massive sizes, it would really be impressive.

Thanks for your consideration!! :-)

Dave


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What's the age on that 2.5 pounder?!?!?!?!

You dog!

I'm jealous beyond imagination.

:p :p :p :p


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Dave,

I reported this to my perch supplier and although I got the particular group this one came from (planted 100) from A Dr. Dave Smith in Ohio of Freshwater Farms of Ohio, it looks most likey Smith was the middle man and the perch originally came from my present supplier Bill Lynch also in Ohio.

Anyway Bill tells me if the perch did originally come from him it was hatched in 2000 so the perch is going on five years old.

I may keep this perch for myself and mount it, and would be glad to send you the otilith if you're interested. If I send you everything inside the head that should do it shouldn't it? I may cast the head so you could get the entire head. However if you aren't interested I understand as it would take time and money. I could send money though to compensate for the cost.

I find it puzzling these perch are doing so well in a pond that is chock full of largemouth bass and the perch do not actively feed on the pellets due to the aggressive largemouths that are doing so. However, since I don't see a lot of recruitment from the largemouth bass (prefer to purchase 300 pellet fed bass annually), I'm thinking the perch may be eating largemouth bass young, and the fact that the bass are basically welfare cases (lazy and feed on pellets) maybe there is not much competition from the bass for natural feed? And the perch seem to possibly occupy an different niche close to the bottom in the deepest water. Surprisingly I have collected young of year bluegill off the bottom in the deepest water which would be great forage. Could be the only place the bluegill can escape the bass if they do feed on them somewhat?

Additionally during the summer I have an algae bloom of about 18 inches from enrichment probably both from excretement both from all the bass biomass and overflow from the trout pond, so maybe that provides lots of natural feed.

I seem to have my cake and eat it too with a few hundred 2 to 3 pound bass and large perch annually although I am down right now. All this in only a .62 acre pond. And I make money off of hook and line caught fish! :p Maybe I'll have to do an article on it some day. \:\)

BTW, today I will be doing taxidermy and watching out the window for flags on my tip-ups lthough he perch bite best right before dark. The big perch come in on tip-ups baited with big shiners. The big ones aren't interested in anything else. It's rough but someone has to do it. \:D


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Cecil Baird. Giant perch and 1,000 posts in the same day! Life is good.


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Bruce,

It's not 2 1/2 pounds it's 2 lbs. 1/2 oz. Did I leave off oz.?

1000 posts? Where? Here?

Apparently it's going on 5 years old according to the original grower. However worst cast scenario is going on 6 years old if the middle man held on to it one more year before selling.

I now get them from the grower directly at half price at only $1.50 a piece for 8.5 to 9.5 inch 2 year old feed trained females. Beautiful flawless fish!

Maybe you should invest in a hauling tank or build one eh?

I'm getting 400 in March and Bill Cody is getting 50. A friend will get 100 of the 400 for his pond, and I will put some in the same bass pond and the rest in a new pond.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Cecil -- I'd trust everything that Bill Lynch tells you. So, you probably do know the age! However, I'd be tickled pink to age any otolith for you. There is no cost, and little time involved.

I think that I'll e-mail you some links that discuss otolith removal. For taxidermy purposes, you obviously don't want to mess up your fish. So, it may take a little digging from one side. After we remove them, we find it important to carefully wipe them clean (e.g, with a towel or paper towel), and then store them for at least 2 weeks in a small plastic vial. I could send a couple of vials over to you if you don't have anything like that.

As for the food, don't discount the macroinvertebrates. I know that perch certainly eat fish prey when available. Absolutely! However, based on quite a bit of food habits work, we grow our biggest perch in the eastern SD lakes on primarily a diet of aqautic invertebrates. The big ones don't do well on zooplankton, but they certainly can reach those 14 inch sizes eating midge larvae, gammarus, etc. Just as a contrast, some of our perch food habits research over on some Minnesota lakes showed that the yellow perch ate quite a few bluegills. Interestingly, the predation on bluegills was more evident in the slower-growing perch populations. Mother Nature sure is complicated.

Notice that I keep saying 14 inches. We can't compete with this talk of 15 and 16 inch perch!! You guys are gooooood.


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It says right here...Cecil Baird1, 1,002 posts.

Any perch over two pounds is a nuclear power plant mutant in my book.


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Cecil:

What is your website address?

I'd like to visit once in a while (assuming you get some pics of these awesome fish up there).

You got me thinkg maybe I need to try some perch in my brother's pond for a little disversification!

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Here's Cecil's site. It's pretty cool.

http://www.ligtel.com/~jjbaird/bairdfish2.htm


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 Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Willis:
(We can't know for "sure" because we're aging fish from otoliths/earstones, and thus can't follow individual fish once they are killed for aging. Catch-22.)
Dave
Just a stupid question from a guy who is going to learn soon how to read otoliths. Why don't read scales and back calculate the length and weight at age? I did it for 60 goldfish and I think the results were pretty accurate. What is the benifit to ageing otoliths and can you back calculate the length at age?

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TYW33,

I'm not Dave but I'll bet he will tell you the otoliths are more accurate. I've see literature that says when scale estimates were compared to actual know ages the scales were often off. In many cases the fish were older than the scales showed them to be.

I see now where some are using clithreum bone cross sections vs. scales too.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Ty -- Cecil hit the nail right on the head.

A good generalization would be that otoliths are more accurate than scales, and the problems with scales tend to increase as fish get older. We just finished a little study on bluegills, and found that scales and otoliths were pretty darn similar up to about age 5. After that, the scales tend to underestimate fish age compared to the otoliths (or, as Cecil also said, other bony structures). As one example, one impoundment had a strong year class of 11 year old bluegills according to otoliths, but the scales ages ranged all the way down to only age 6. When you do back-calcuations with those kinds of mistakes, you are sometimes pretty far off on the growth analysis.

I think the reason for the underaging is that scales grow to cover the body of a fish. As fish get larger, weight goes up faster than length, so pretty soon you don't get much growth in length, and the scale annuli get hard to discern because the scales don't grow very much.

Another tidbit is that scales are less reliable and ototliths are more reliable as you go further south. In the north country, such as you, the scale annuli are often more discernible because of the more defined (longer) winters. I guess it's about impossible to age a largemouth bass scale from Puerto Rico (although I've never done it). They grow year-round.

Right now, in SD waters, we're still sometimes using scales for general growth assessment up to perhaps ages 4 or 5 on quite a few fish species. When we really need to know the age structure (such as a mortality estimation), then we have switched much of the work to otoliths. Scales are nice because they are non-lethal, of course. However, as state agency biologists get more and more under the gun with regulation setting and regulation evaluations, sometimes we just have to bite the bullet, sacrifice some fish, and get a good idea of what is really happening.

Hope that helps. You can find lots and lots of literature on the aging comparisions for various structures and various fish species, if you are interested. The best studies, which are rare, involve known-age fish so you really can check accurary rather than just precision.


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Dave,

Thanks for making me look so knowledgable! \:D

Got a question for ya. How many snails do you see in the stomaches of yellow perch in the ponds and lakes with snails out there? I got a couple more big perch the other night and one passed a snail shell. I used to have beaucoup snails in my pond but after the last planting of 100 perch in the 8.5 to 9.5 range my snails have all but disappeared by summer. I know I've seen literature that says snails are part of their diet. But in all fairness there could be other factors.

Just wondering if it's possible my perch have cropped down the snails. I do have quite a few for only a .62 acre pond.

Not missing the snails too much as my bass which are the primary product in this pond don't seem to carry grubs anymore. I also am getting quite successful at keeping the herons completely out, as you obviously know are part of a parasite cycle which involves the snail.


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Cecil -- we see a few snails in perch diets, but not many (to best of my knowledge; I'm at home without any reference materials).

Now I'm going to not look knowledgeable: we're having a big problem with yellow grubs in one of our perch ponds. It has plenty of vegetation and snails, and plenty of herons and cormorants. The perch are infested with the grubs, while the walleyes and smallmouth bass have very darn few. We haven't looked at perch diets in that pond, but you gotta wonder.


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 Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Willis:
Cecil -- we see a few snails in perch diets, but not many (to best of my knowledge; I'm at home without any reference materials).

Now I'm going to not look knowledgeable: we're having a big problem with yellow grubs in one of our perch ponds. It has plenty of vegetation and snails, and plenty of herons and cormorants. The perch are infested with the grubs, while the walleyes and smallmouth bass have very darn few. We haven't looked at perch diets in that pond, but you gotta wonder.
All I know is I did have some grubs in the bass in the past along with some bacterial problems with the bass apparently due to stress for a brief period one summer. But after increasing aeration in this extremely heavy bass pond, keeping the herons out with stakes and braided line, and increasing the density of the perch I have not seen any grubs in my bass and I have never seen any in the perch. All fish are heathier too with the increased aeration (two diffusers at equidistance apart in the center of the pond and two diffusers between four floating cages).


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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From my experience about the only type of snail y.perch will effectively eat are those typically called pond snails(Physa, Physella). Perch will clean up on them. The the thicker shelled species are too heavy walled and are probably eaten only sparingly.


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Bill,

Thanks for the info. I think I have both kinds in the pond. I picked up a 1 lb. 13 ouncer ( 14 5/8 inches) today using a rosy red fat head on a bare gold hook under a slip bobber. I also kept a 1 lb. 6 oz fish (13 1/8 inches) that I got on a tip-up, and I'm now throwing everything smaller back. I may keep a half dozen more of big ones and that will be it.

Don't know where all the big bass over 2 lbs are. I need a a total of 3 dozen for some taxidermy schools and I only have 2 the right size and one over 4 lbs. You'd think they'd hit shiners on a tip up but they have no interest in them. Only the big perch with shiners and fatheads. Maybe something to do with the fact they are feed trained and the perch went off feed?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Cecil,

In your opinion, what is the ratio of natural feed to pelleted feed that's been consumed during the lifetime of a two-pound perch in your pond?


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Bruce,

I really don't know. All I know is I rarely see perch feeding on the pellets but I have to admit I do see some fish farther out away from the bass that are also feeding. However it doesn't appear to be many fish and nowhere near the amount of perch I have in the pond. I wouldn't be surprise if most of these perch rarely feed on a pellet.

Did finally get a 3 lb. 2 oz. bass on a tip up today and pulled one up over 4 lbs. on a rosey red fathead baited on a bare hook with a sponge slip bobber. It's laying in a snow bank right now but it's so wide it could almost be a bluegill! Also got another pound and half perch on a rosey red. The shiners I got this time are really big and I had a lot of flags but no fish. I may try and get smaller shiners and concentrate on the fishing with a sponge float with a pole and reel using fatheads. More hook ups that way.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Dr. Willis,
As a note to the otilith aging, could a small x-ray machine be used to age the fish without killing the fish? My dental pictures showed up clearly this morning and luckily cavity free. I haven't heard of it before possibly because of cost of a machine.
Robert B

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Robert B -- good question and good idea, and I don't know the answer. I think resolution would be a concern, as the annual marks (winters) are not all that different from the growing season (summers). So, it probably would take some darn good equipment. Also, we typically wait at least two weeks after removing the otolith to age it. When immediately removed, the annual marks are not always visible. So that would increase the difficulty of aging the live fish. So, at the least, I'll bet it would come down to quality/resolution of the equipment.

Gee, I said a lot for not knowing anything about the topic, didn't I? :-)


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Dave,

This may seem off the wall but as a taxidermist I notice when I break the the vertebrae on larger fish as in northern pike, as it hard to cut it to get the carcass out I notice distinct rings in the vertebrae. I would have to wonder if they couln't be used.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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