Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,899
Posts557,051
Members18,451
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,407
ewest 21,474
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
3 members (Layne, Angler8689, anthropic), 616 guests, and 135 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#514685 12/06/19 10:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Hi,

I am new to pond building (although I have seen quite a few being built) and am going to build a series of ponds (around 10) on our farm.

I have read "Just add Water" and have done a lot of research. My primary purposes are for retriever training (like John and Martha Russell in Mike's book), fishing and livestock.

My first build is a small sacrificial pond for learning purposes.

It has a bottom draw with an up pipe on the back side of the dike even with the water line. It also has a drain valve.

My concern on this pond is water doesn't seem to flow out of the overflow very well. It is overflowing at the emergency spillway and the overflow pipe. The pipe is small (3") but it doesn't come out of the top fast enough. If I open the drain valve, it rolls out great. Any suggestions?

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
Is the pipe strait (no high spots for air lock)? Does it slope downhill hard or is it level? How much freeboard between top of drain inlet and bottom of emergency spillway?

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Straight up. It has a slope down hill. I think around 5-8 feet.

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
I am trying to upload some photos. When I try, it takes me to a donate page. Do I have to donate money to upload pictures?

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,470
Likes: 107
R
Offline
R
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,470
Likes: 107
Appreciated yes of course but the answer would be nope. Every pages has the donate button in the top right corner.


The people who say I can't do it can just sit the @^#% down and watch me. Friends call me Rusto I also subscribe to pond boss mag. http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504716#Post504716
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Originally Posted By: RAH
Is the pipe strait (no high spots for air lock)? Does it slope downhill hard or is it level? How much freeboard between top of drain inlet and bottom of emergency spillway?


Looking for clarification relative to your questions:

1. Should the pipe be straight?
2. Should it be level or slope? If it needs slope, how much per foot?
3. How much freeboard should it have?

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 355
Likes: 37
H
Offline
H
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 355
Likes: 37
Jeffrey,
When the pond is at full pool and water is ONLY coming out of the 3” pipe how much higher does the water in the pond need to come up (how many inches) until it goes over the emergency spillway?
Heppy

Last edited by Heppy; 12/07/19 08:01 PM.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
Pipe should be strait and the more sloped it is (greater the drop), the more water it will carry when full of water. The amount of freeboard that is needed depends on the watershed, rainfall amounts, pond size, pipe size, drop on pipe, pipe material, and length. There are formulas to size and design pond drains, dam height, and emergency spillways. I just over-engineer mine.

High spots in a drain pipe can cause an air lock. A 3" pipe is very small for most ponds. I have 4" drains on a few of my wetlands but will never go less than 6" on any new ones after having turtles plug the 4" ones several times. Even had a turtle plug a 6" drain. I now have guards on them all.

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Originally Posted By: Heppy
Jeffrey,
When the pond is at full pool and water is ONLY coming out of the 3” pipe how much higher does the water in the pond need to come up (how many inches) until it goes over the emergency spillway?
Heppy


Right now it is about 4 inches.

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
RAH: Thanks for the clarification. At first the pond was tiny. I was basically trying to calculate the water flow from the spring. During a rain the spring picked up extra flow from road runoff and the 3" wasn't adequate.

I made the pond bigger (it is around 3-4K sq. ft.) because the water flow was good. I plan on going with a 6 inch pipe.

When you talk about high spots in the drain pipe, are you referring to the horizontal portion in the dike?

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Delete

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Delete

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
If air can collect in a portion of the pipe then an air lock can form. I learned this the hard way in a small diameter gravity drain.

Only 4" of freeboard means the drain may never fully fill due to sucking air from the surface of the water. An anti-vortex device, like a hood, might help a little bit, but the pipe probably needs to be set lower.

Last edited by RAH; 12/08/19 10:05 AM.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
RAH,

I'm struggling to understand why freeboard matters in my case. I can't see how it can suck air with a bottom draw.

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 355
Likes: 37
H
Offline
H
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 355
Likes: 37
Jeffrey,
Clicking on your links I only see the Google account sign in screen. A picture would help (“It has a bottom draw with an up pipe on the back side of the dike even with the water line. It also has a drain valve.”) to explain this to those reading your thread. The way I understand it is that your 3” overflow pipe runs through the bottom of the dam inside the pond and outside the back of the dam. From this point there is an upside down 90 degree T with the drain on the horizontal side of T furthest from the dam and a piece of 3” pipe sticking straight up in the air on the upside down vertical T on the backside of the dam. The height of the 3” pipe is 4 inches shy of being level with your emergency spillway when the pond is full. If this is correct what is the source of water for the pond (runoff, spring or stream fed). Do you know the size of your watershed or gallons per minute if it is spring or stream fed?
Heppy

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 231
Likes: 10
N
Offline
N
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 231
Likes: 10
I am no expert but I would think your head pressure in your drain pipe would be equal to the water depth. When your water goes up you have only 6 inches of head pressure, not very much.
You would need to replace with a syphon system if you have enough slope on the back side of your dam. Then a 3 inch pipe would pull a lot more water out.


61 acre water shed lake. bass, channel cat, black crappie, wiper, walleye, redear sunfish, blue catfish and bluegill. To many bullhead and common carp
http://www.pondboss.com/news/videos/why-subscribe-to-pond-boss
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
Did not realize it is a bottom draw. The water pressure and flow rate are still dependent on the water level above the drain height. Only 4" of freeboard will produce slow flow. Put a small hole in the bottom of a bucket and watch the flow rate out of that hole as you fill the same bucket. The same is true if you start a siphon out of a bucket. As the water level goes down in the bucket, the speed of the water coming through the siphon decreases. If the vertical pipe hold immobile water on the downside of the dam during dry spells, what keeps it from freezing during cold weather? Or are your minimum temps too high?

Last edited by RAH; 12/09/19 06:59 AM.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Originally Posted By: Heppy
Jeffrey,
Clicking on your links I only see the Google account sign in screen. A picture would help (“It has a bottom draw with an up pipe on the back side of the dike even with the water line. It also has a drain valve.”) to explain this to those reading your thread. The way I understand it is that your 3” overflow pipe runs through the bottom of the dam inside the pond and outside the back of the dam. From this point there is an upside down 90 degree T with the drain on the horizontal side of T furthest from the dam and a piece of 3” pipe sticking straight up in the air on the upside down vertical T on the backside of the dam. The height of the 3” pipe is 4 inches shy of being level with your emergency spillway when the pond is full. If this is correct what is the source of water for the pond (runoff, spring or stream fed). Do you know the size of your watershed or gallons per minute if it is spring or stream fed?
Heppy


I can't figure the picture thing out.

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
My 2 kids are IT professionals and suggested Imgur (free online photo storage). This has worked perfectly for me. The flying dog literally broke her neck and is in a brace for 8-12 weeks. Her muscularity is what saved her.


Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 46
W
Offline
W
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 46
I use Imgur as well. Pretty simple


Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Originally Posted By: nehunter
I am no expert but I would think your head pressure in your drain pipe would be equal to the water depth. When your water goes up you have only 6 inches of head pressure, not very much.
You would need to replace with a syphon system if you have enough slope on the back side of your dam. Then a 3 inch pipe would pull a lot more water out.


I love the siphon system, but it would get in the way of my dogs entering the water.

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 355
Likes: 37
H
Offline
H
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 355
Likes: 37
Yes I can see your pictures. What is your source of water and where in VA are you located? I’m no expert but RAH is asking you a great question about temperature. The pipe outside the dam is likely to get an ice plug and break if the water freezes and expands from what I understand.
Heppy

Last edited by Heppy; 12/09/19 11:09 AM.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
I'm in SW VA in the Blacksburg area. The water source is a spring. It runs about 10-15gpm (I'm guessing here based on a garden hose being about 6gpm) year round without rain. I can tell you the 3 inch over flow pipe works about at capacity when it isn't raining. When it rains hard I get at least double the flow. I am worried about freezing as well. I received advice not to worry about it but am hesitant.

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
J
OP Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
DC70 posted something real interesting for a northern climate siphon system that is buried. It seems like it would meet my needs. I don't quite understand it though. Has anyone else built something like that?

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by Rainman - 03/28/24 02:53 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by Mark Dyer - 03/27/24 10:18 PM
Reducing fish biomass
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:17 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:05 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:02 PM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by Bill Cody - 03/27/24 10:18 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by esshup - 03/27/24 08:47 AM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by esshup - 03/26/24 10:00 PM
Freeze Danger? - Electric Diaphragm Pump
by esshup - 03/26/24 09:47 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5