Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Building a dam New SMB Reproduction Pond Project

Eric, this is in a pond where they will only be in from hatching until the Fall. Will they still need BG or larger forage fish to eat?

Eric, it's the SMB reproduction pond we're talking about. I added 4 BG to provide forage for 4 months over Summer as an experiment. Since I can't get out and feed daily, and auto feeders dump way too much into the pond at a given time leading to nutrient overload, adding some natural forage helped my SMB recruitment and overall body condition tremendously this year. The BG apparently spawned a couple times over the Summer, and the YOY SMB responded very well. I'll definitely be doing it again this Summer - helped solve the nourishment issue I've been facing with they YOY SMB the past several seasons. I will probably add some FHM early season to allow them to reproduce a few times before I stock the brood fish, maybe some GSH - not sure. Goal here is to feed the SMB offspring for maximum growth.

IMO golden shiners would be better than BG as they would be less likley to prey on YOY SMB. The five 7" RES currently in my aquarium can eat 2-3 dozen small FHM (under 2") a day.

GSH should spawn at least 4 times over the summer.

I see some merits using GSH - but 3 BG won't impact SMB YOY population noticably IMO as aquarium vs. 1/10th ac pond, big difference, but I again understand your angle. I can easily sex BG and limit numbers that way, GSH stocking would need to be higher qty since I can't sex them. GSH absolutely will hammer any SMB YOY they can manage - far more pisciverous than BG! Gape of a 6" GSH vs BG, I've not measured it, but feel higher number of GSH would pose more of a risk for predation than 3 BG. Who knows, I might do a combo approach of FHM early, BG and GSH.

Wanted to share my experiences in my 5th year of SMB growing - learning some tricks to help improve my yields, and the collection efforts were far more efficient this year, which was a great success. My goal for next year is 750...Josh has already reserved my top 10% class, I don't want to disappoint him.

GSH have very small gapes compared to BG, I have trouble catching GSH using small dry flies, they simply can't get their mouth around the hook. GSH should be sexually mature at 3" in size.

http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3210&context=etd

Uncle, I give!

I say run your SMB reproduction pond any way you feel like TJ.

I will say that I have watched BG work over schools of freshly hatched LMB fry numerous times, that's all.

One of the interesting observations from my pond this year was that I started seeing GSH fry everywhere along the banks about 1-2 weeks before ever seeing any SMB fry. One thing I will say about both, neither are very predator smart during those first few days/weeks after they hatch. I was able to sample both GSH and SMB fry by just dipping a tea cup into the water. Shallow water cover next to the bank will be your friend while while your SMB are still relatively predator stupid.

re: mouth gape. A 9"-10" GHS cannot fit a single AM600 pellet in it's mouth. They'll grab one and chew on it for a bit until they can get it in their mouth.

TJ,
I’m thinking of feeding my 2.7 acre main pond with the .15 acre forage pond similar to this thread. Right now I’m using minnow traps to transfer. In several years I might change it into a grow out pond, unsure at this point. One problem that I will face is the large amount of deciduous leaves and broken branches that fall into the forage pond. What have you found is the best way to clean out your grow out pond?
Thanks!
Heppy

Ping me we can chat. Happy to help.

Tj@hudlandmgmt.com

TJ, is your SMB crop raise solely on forage?

I do things a bit differently now in my 9th SMB season. I don't collect brood fish and wait for the spawn, I actually collect SMB fly right after swim up in my largest pond and move them to a grow out cell. Reduces quite a bit of effort to collect brood fish in April and trying to ensure proper gender spread, also don't have to worry about catching and removing the brood fish following the spawn. Those fish can be amazingly selective and difficult to catch again.

I fertilize March-May with alfalfa pellets or cottonseed meal for strong zooplankton population prior to larval SMB transfer and add FHM throughout the season. The zooplankton helps the larval SMB make it through those first few weeks - I easily doubled my survival rates once I figured out I was likely losing 90% of my SMB the first few weeks due to starvation. Some years I'll stock 1 adult male and 2-3 adult female BG as their 1-2 spawns help provide additional forage for growing SMB and are free compared to the FHM. I stock just enough BG so I don't have to worry about predation on the SMB. I don't live on site so it's not worth the effort to try and feed train my SMB - but that could be done if I had more time to dedicate to the training 2 times daily.

TJ, I was thinking of texting you about a SMB reproduction pond idea I'm working on, but having it on here may be better. I'm hoping to turn one of my grow out ponds into a SMB reproduction pond, and the plan is to release a small number of brood stock into it. Then what I will do is sink a large 400sq ft plus lift net into it so that about 50-60% of water volume would be inside the lift net. The brood stock would be outside of the lift net where I would have spawning structures built. In the lift net portion of the pond I would have a belt feeder supplying the fry with regular feed. My intentions would be for the fry to enter the lift net for refuge and then grow them to a point where I could just lift the net and acquire 3-4" feed trained SMB. Thoughts?

TJ, FWIW I think your methods of raising SMB advance fingerlings leads to a far superior fingerling. I especially like that your fingerlings are exposed to BG which have much different evasion tactics than FHM. When a fingerling is raised entirely forage, IMHO, it is fitter and more experienced in how to make a living. Even the way you collect fry leads to a selective improvement I think. If the customer taking the top 10 percent acts the least bit disappointed ... well ... I just figure he's pretending. If I lived up there and needed some SMB fingerlings I would hope to purchase some of yours.

TJ,
After seeing your response to jpsdad, I immediately thought of a question.
Which method have you found to be most efficient in catching the swim up SMB fry dipnetting, seining or trapping from the big pond? I will still be calling you tomorrow afternoon just thought I’d ask here as a future reminder.
Thanks,
Heppy

Fairly certain he uses a fine mesh, long handled dip net.

Thanks NEDOC!
Heppy

This is doable, but I prefer bypassing brood fish and collect fry to grow out. Eliminates several steps and variables - if we don't have more untimely rains in May you are welcome to SMB fry. One can also pair SMB in cages on rock spawning beds which allows fry to swim out and easy collection of SMB following spawn. I've done this with caged YP and it was a successful project by all accounts.

Well JP that would be a nice marketing spin - falling in line with my Bluegill Assassin SMB idea! My babies are doing well in Shorty, Omaha and Condello's fisheries - I'm happy to share with my PB family.

I watch water temps and photo periods and once I start seeing males shallow I know YOY schools aren't far behind. I use only commercial duraframe dipnets - hex head 1/32" mesh. One has to time collection just right, once the larval fish go from flagellum to caudal fin development they're much more elusive/faster and collection is exponentially more difficult.

TJ,
Thanks for talking me through my plan this afternoon! I really appreciate you taking the time to walk over my plans for the ponds with me. Everyone should know what a great asset he is to forum. He is willing to spend time and share his knowledge with anyone about anything pond related. As TJ said, “Bill Cody taught me everything I know.”
Thank you again for your help TJ!
Heppy

You bet buddy your project sounds awesome excited to witness it come together. Don’t forget your homework projects!!