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jwetovick #505909 05/15/19 12:02 PM
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The odds are in favor of all of us who have used Roundup or who live next to fields that are covered in Roundup... The jury has spoken and a couple is 2 BILLION (with a B) richer now because of the nagging suspicions in a typical jurors mind that this stuff might be bad after all.

The momentum will build and anyone with an axe to grind will bring their pinstripe suit to court and line up for the handsome payouts that are bound to keep coming.

I'm sure you will never get a scientific answer and you certainly can't do a controlled trial exposing some to Roundup and others to an alternative.

I just know it is frightening when they test many produce items in the grocery store and it still has the roundup detectable in it...

2 Billion Award

Last edited by canyoncreek; 05/15/19 12:20 PM.
jwetovick #505911 05/15/19 12:43 PM
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In other news...

https://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2019-05-14-herbicide-linked-to-human-liver-disease.aspx

and I just picked up 2-1/2 gallons of Rodeo yesterday.



canyoncreek #505912 05/15/19 12:44 PM
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Best studies have shown that Roundup is not carinogenic, but that's not where the big money is to be made. Show the jury someone with cancer that used Roundup and of course they'll want to help, regardless of evidence.

For facts, see https://www.wsj.com/articles/roundup-of-cancer-evidence-11557876010

Last edited by anthropic; 05/15/19 12:44 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB & 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 -7




jwetovick #505919 05/15/19 01:02 PM
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Just note that the verdict was in CA. Crazy capitol of the US.

The cost of litigating several hundred of these cases could bankrupt the manufacture. Then it will be made (knock-off) in China and who knows what we get.
















jwetovick #505922 05/15/19 01:06 PM
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Glyphosate appears to be the universal herbicide. Iíve been using it to Kill a huge outbreak of poison oak.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
jwetovick #505928 05/15/19 01:54 PM
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Just sprayed some cattails last night with Roundup mixed at the 1.6% rate. Will report back with any dead fish sightings and/or dead cattails. If I don't see any dead fish (which i doubt i will) then I'd rather buy 2 2.5gal jugs of roundup (with surfactant) for less than 1 2.5 of Rodeo and surfactant.

jwetovick #505932 05/15/19 03:45 PM
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It's my understanding that it's the surfactant used with Roundup that is harmful to amphibians and other aquatic organisms, that's why it's not labeled for aquatic use. It probably won't kill your fish unless it kills a strong algae bloom and causes a severe dissolved oxygen sag, but it could do some damage to your aquatic food chain. One of the things it might do to your fish is cause liver damage.



Shorty #505933 05/15/19 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Shorty
It's my understanding that it's the surfactant used with Roundup that is harmful to amphibians and other aquatic organisms, that's why it's not labeled for aquatic use. It probably won't kill your fish unless it kills a strong algae bloom and causes a severe dissolved oxygen sag, but it could do some damage to your aquatic food chain. One of the things it might do to your fish is cause liver damage.


Roundup will most likely not/not labeled to kill algae to my understanding. Only weeds etc out of the water like cattails. They recommend using a surfactant with rodeo but never say anything about using some special 'aquatic' surfactant so I'm confused about this whole situation and said to heck with it, I'm going to take the stance that the only difference is rodeo does not have a surfactant and use regular roundup. Not saying I'm right, just my .02 after doing a lot of reading.

jwetovick #505935 05/15/19 04:33 PM
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Rodeo is supposed to be used with a "non-ionic" surfactant.



Shorty #505938 05/15/19 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: Shorty
Rodeo is supposed to be used with a "non-ionic" surfactant.

I have been trying to research and coming up empty. Do we know that the surfactant in roundup is ionic and not nonionic? Iím curious. Canít seem to find the answer.

jwetovick #505939 05/15/19 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: jwetovick
Originally Posted By: Shorty
Rodeo is supposed to be used with a "non-ionic" surfactant.

I have been trying to research and coming up empty. Do we know that the surfactant in roundup is ionic and not nonionic? Iím curious. Canít seem to find the answer.


I just always assumed you needed to add your own surfactant to Rodeo to maximize the result. I add 1 ounce of a non-ionic surfactant (I use Cygnet) per gallon of spray. I use roundup for areas away from the pond without adding a surfactant and get good results.

Last edited by Bill D.; 05/15/19 08:57 PM. Reason: clarification

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jwetovick #505944 05/15/19 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: jwetovick
Originally Posted By: Shorty
Rodeo is supposed to be used with a "non-ionic" surfactant.

I have been trying to research and coming up empty. Do we know that the surfactant in roundup is ionic and not nonionic? Iím curious. Canít seem to find the answer.


I haven't had much luck either, could it be the concentration of surfactant in the mix that makes one approved for aquatic use and the other one not? Or maybe the type of surfactant?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethoxylated_tallow_amine

Quote:
POEA concentrations range from <1% in ready-to-use glyphosate formulations to 21% in concentrates.[2] POEA constitutes 15% of Roundup formulations and the phosphate ester neutralized polyethoxylated tallow amine surfactant constitutes 14.5% of Roundup Pro.[


Quote:
A review of the literature provided to the EPA in 1997 found that POEA was generally more potent in causing toxicity to aquatic organisms than glyphosate, and that POEA becomes more potent in more alkaline environments.



jwetovick #505945 05/15/19 09:34 PM
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I'm still confused. crazy

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/glyphosate_confusion_what_are_the_differences_in_formulations

Quote:
Several types of salts have been used to formulate different glyphosate products over the years and each salt has a different molecular weight. Primary salts that have been used to formulate glyphosate products include: potassium, isopropylamine, monoammonium, diammonium, and trimesium salts. Because of the differences in the molecular weights of these salts there are changes in the glyphosate acid to salt ratio in the different glyphosate products.


Quote:
Another difference in glyphosate products is whether a surfactant needs to be added to the spray solution or if the formulated glyphosate product has a built-in adjuvant package. Products like Roundup WeatherMax, Touchdown Total, Glyphomax XRT and several others have built-in adjuvant systems. Even though all of these products have a built-in adjuvant system, there can and many times are differences in the type of surfactant formulated in the product. These differences may equate to differences in weed control under extreme conditions.


I believe Roundup is formulated with Isopropylamine, Rodeo is formulated with? I still can't find much information on the surfactant used in Roundup.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropylamine



jwetovick #505946 05/15/19 09:35 PM
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Has anyone come across someone that has noticed fish or wildlife kill from using roundup for spraying in or around water?

jwetovick #505947 05/15/19 09:46 PM
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I had a fish related kill last July when the soy beans next to my pond were sprayed on a windy day, it killed my algea bloom and caused a DO sag. The bryzoans colonies that were just getting started disappeared shortly afterwards.



jwetovick #506021 05/16/19 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: jwetovick
Has anyone come across someone that has noticed fish or wildlife kill from using roundup for spraying in or around water?


We are testing to find out, my neighbor had a company out today to spray some form of Roundup and fertilizer on the field next to the pond with a 15+ mph SW wind, he will be planting tomorrow. It's already killing the brome grass along the fence line, my pond is 25 yards downwind of where they sprayed today. I did stop and talk with him in case any issues pop up but he didn't know exactly what was sprayed. It is supposed to storm here Saturday evening so I will likely get some some residual run off too.

crazy



jwetovick #506028 05/16/19 10:15 PM
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I liberally sprayed roundup two days ago on cattails that weíre out from shore about 10 ft so much spray was definitely in open water. I have not noticed anything dead so far as far as fish or frogs. Will watch daily and report back.

jwetovick #506031 05/17/19 06:27 AM
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What is a general mix for Weedtrine d?

jwetovick #506034 05/17/19 07:04 AM
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Checked the pond this morning before work. mad




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jwetovick #506039 05/17/19 07:51 AM
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Darnit Shorty! I hate to see that.





Fish on!,
Noel
jwetovick #506043 05/17/19 08:10 AM
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Oh Shorty that's terrible.
Do you think this is from the DO sag like you attributed to last time? I had not studied the use of roundup enough but knew it had warnings about pond use.
Good luck
Dave


Thanks
Dave
1 acre pond.
jwetovick #506047 05/17/19 08:29 AM
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Is that the same pond that beautiful RES came out of the other day?

roundy #506049 05/17/19 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: roundy
Is that the same pond that beautiful RES came out of the other day?


Yes. Found a bigger one this morning. mad

The Nebraska Department of Environmental Quality is on his way this morning to take samples, so is the Salesman of the company that sprayed the field.



Custom 68 #506050 05/17/19 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Custom 68
Oh Shorty that's terrible.
Do you think this is from the DO sag like you attributed to last time? I had not studied the use of roundup enough but knew it had warnings about pond use.
Good luck
Dave


Yes, very likely a DO sag.



Shorty #506052 05/17/19 09:46 AM
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Wow. That is a sad sight.


John

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