Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Discouraging Water Turkeys

The return of the dreaded water turkeys, aka Cormorants, to my East Texas ponds is imminent....any day now. The destruction of forage fish and even game fish by these creatures every year works against every management technique I apply during the growing season.

I have tried just about everything except adding dye/coloring to the water to reduce/eliminate visibility. I have generally very clear water.

Has anyone had success in thwarting these birds by the use of water dye/coloring? If so, what has worked for you?

There is a special dye that is spread by scattering small lead bb's across the surface when they are present. A 12 guage shotgun seems to work the best and be the most economical. It's really a simple formula.

These are very aggressive hunters and to dye the water dark enough to prevent them from feeding would prevent your bass from feeding as well.

POW!!!!! POW!!!!!! No I didn't miss. There were two of them.

Brian,

Believe me, I have tried your approach...and it works well when I am onsite...but I can't be there 24/7 and the birds are smart enough to figure that out...and take advantage accordingly. It only takes being absent a day or two and they take over.... sometimes en mass. It is an extremely vexing problem. I have even considered hiring someone to patrol when I'm not onsite, but that can get to be very expensive. It is a serious problem for me and I would greatly appreciate finding a realistic solution.

I consider cormorants as big of a problem as anyone else. There is a much bigger problem though. That is the perception that we are a bunch of law breakers. We sportsmen and women are far outnumbered by people that don't hunt or fish. We need their support. Everyone talks about how they want to pass on this hunting and fishing tradition. Then they post something like this on the internet. Are you crazy? Do you think that people that oppose hunting and fishing can't read?

When a topic like this comes up, why isn't everyone jumping on it? Or when you talk about our hunting and fishing tradition, is it just that...talk? If we can't control ourselves, someone else will!

Get a permit to control cormorants. Then whatever you do, don't put it on this forum. We can't afford to look like we condon illegal actions!

Norm,

I have a perfectly legal permit...issued by the state of Texas for only $12. My post was seeking help on a 24/7 basis...for when I can not be onsite.

It was a serious post for a serious problem...and perfectly within all the laws of the State of Texas.

As long as I am operating legally on my own property, defending my property, aka fish, against predators, I defy anyone to take that right away.

I had similar problems on my pond but with a pair of great blue herons. These are beautiful stately birds and I should feel honored that they chose my pond to feed, but the sight of one of them nabbing one of my bass didn't sit well with me. My problem is, or was, lack of habitat or hiding places for my fish. My water was also pretty clear, 3 to 4 foot with a secchi disk, so they had a field day. I started to build habitat and now that most of the structures have been there for a year the fish have a place to hide. I know this is working because now I can regularly see the herons wading in the shallows which they never did before. Without cover they just flew in and BAM, caught a fish. Now they have to work for it and although they spend more time doing it, they don't seem to be as successfull. In my mind I've been doubly successfull, these are beautiful birds and they spend more time hunting around my shallows, and my fish have a fighting (or hiding) chance.

PA Pond,

Could you tell me a little more about the Heron's and what size bass they got? Did they nab this bass by grabbing him out of the water as they were flying? Did you see it happen?

I have a few herons around my place, and personally, I like them. I have no first hand evidence of them eating bass (not fingerlings) in my pond, yet I'm an absentee owner. I must add that I believe all the others here on Pondboss who say they eat bass.

While Cormorants are supposed to be common in PA,I've never seen one of them at my place yet.

Thanks.

Sunil
Before I started to work on my pond it was encircled by cat tails from the shore to 4 feet of depth, so the herons weren't able to 'wade'. They landed on standing deadwood around the pond (old trees that had died from having their roots saturated or buried from dam construction) When the heron saw a fish they dove into the water and came out with a mouthfull. The biggest I've seen them catch was a 6 to 7" fish. I've since removed the standing deadwood and eliminated their ability to pearch in the trees. Now that I've removed all of the cat tails and have my shallows back, I have the herons back as well. They just slowly stalk about in the shallow waters and I have seen them grab a fish, again medium sized, but that happens much less due to the increased structure I've added. I really have no clue as to the ratio of cover to pond surface area required for optimum results reguarding cover areas, any input about the proper ratios would be helpfull. I haven't seen any comorrants around my pond either but I'm only a few miles from the upper Delaware river and I've seen them there.

Thanks PA Pond.

C'mon fellas- where's your sense of humor? You don't think that's funny- spreading the dye with lead shot?

I'm sure that everybody's talking about "scaring" the cormorant's away!

There's no requiremnet for " political correctness" on this forum, is there?

Brad B.

Norm Please if this forum and shooting of cormaramts is the only ammuntion anti hunting crowds can find they are in trouble. I have more licenses with my businees and do not want to get in trouble, but have not rouble whatsever advising people to shoot these critters that damage the very fish we work to raise. Try to get permits first but if that does not happen give me a break. I'm so over this political correctness. I take measuers to ensure our heritage of fishing and hunting but do not feel someone on their private pond provides a "bad image" shooting water turkeys.

Brad, I thought it was funny & nicely written.

Norm, come on buddy. Lighten up. Brad, I too thought it was funny.

Greg Grimes,

Thanks for your post...and I agree completely. This PC stuff has just gone way too far.

However, my orginal question remains unfortunately unaddressed because of the unexpected controversy.

Once again, has anyone had any success with the dye/colors in thwarting the water turkeys? Thanks for any responses to this question.

Meadowlark, I haven't used dyes but I have a real problem with them unless it is purely an ornamental pond. MY OPINION!!!The stuff keeps sunlight from penetrating. Thus, the phytoplankton is affected that is the base of the food chain. I believe it work to help keep the cormorant problem down but might create a bigger problem.

Anyone else? Bill Cody??

meadowlark,
Sorry if you said but how big is the pond? Unless you add alot of dye it will not darken the water enough. I used 250 gallons this year. As mentioned it lowers primary production by blocking sunlight to phyto. I use in ponds and lakes where asethetics is more important than fish production. Also I add just enough (blue) dye to mix with muddy conditions that results in a nice green color that most pond owners would never even know is dye. Problem is if you do that I doubt it will work. I guess my point is you will have to apply lots , which is fairly $$ and I doubt it will work??? One last point is that if you use during the cool months (nov-march) of the year you will not have to worry about harming fish production point b/c little production occurs then anyway. Good luck and I still say shoot them when you can.

This last fall i just died a few out of the sky , my pond is surrounded by trees and these fish eaters were so heavy [with my fish] they had to circle around several times to clear the trees - ya know they did'nt make it. to heavy i guess !

Uh, oh!

screw being politically correct. those folks can "kiss my bass." ( i didn't make that up, i think i saw it on a bumper sticker somewhere)!!

abide with the law, if ya don't, at least don't post if over the internet.

if ya kill something, don't let it suffer.

Lighten up.

Protect your land and what you've invested in it.

ok, concerning meadowlarks question. if it is legal there, i would shoot as many as i can. maybe train a dog that you can adopt from the humane society to chase the birds/scare them away. how about motion sensored sprinklers depending on the size of your pond. and if small enough pond, netting. if electricity nearby, set a timer, and maybe a stereo under a shed....have it turn on via timer to the sound of gunshots, or dog bark or whatever scares of herons and cormorants. maybe you could buy a cheap cd player....and i wonder if one of those crow/owl call cd's would work. maybe some day when you are around there you can record when the birds are out there the most, and set your timer to those times for the cd player to come on. and set your cd to replay so it will start all over at the end of the cd/tape or whatever.

just a thought or two, hope it helps.

out of curiosity...anybody know why those cormorants are protected/require a permit? how do they benefit the ecosystem? are their numbers low or something? i've been to lake fork fishing, and those little white air rats are everywhere. trees down there look white from their poop. not that i want any species to become extinct, but i'm just curios. i mean, i can understand the california condor and bald eagle and the panda etc. but if there were pandas running everywehere, there'd be a season on them probably, for environmental control/equilibration of the ecosystem (man, i'm sounding nerdy huh?!!) . mark

Cormorants are actually coming off the endangered list but are still not considered a game bird so they cannot be hunted. I know of one person in Wisconsin that was given a permit to shoot them but can shoot only 5 a year. I think we need the boys in Texas to buy the $12 permits I heard were coming out and shoot all they can. Of course this is just something I read on this board so I am not sure they ever became a reality.

I agree with those who say "take care of problems when they occur". Government is not always there to help.

I'm reminded of a recent Dallas/Fort Worth news story about a mockingbird that was dive bombing kids at a local Elementary School. The bird was nesting in a tree by the front door and protecting its "home area". The news caster said that nobody knew what to do because it was the Texas State bird and that all but 3 types of birds were federally protected. The liberals that ran the school were going to have the hundreds of children enter by a side door. I couldn't believe that "nobody knew what to do". The story only ran once but I got curious and called the news reporter. She hadn't followed up on it so I called the school. Seems that some vandal had destroyed the nest. Most likely some dumbass redneck that put the interest of children over birds.

Brian,

FYI, the $12 permit in Texas is for unlimited "harvesting" (Euphemism for the pc) as long as you are on your own property and have a valid Texas hunting permit. Also, they require that you keep a log of you "harvests".

I can't help but share this story about wildlife and politically correct. soon you'll see where i get my ... genes from.

As you know, i'm very proud of my parents. my dad is a retired naval officer, fighter pilot for 25 years; famous for his record setting number of nighttime aircraft carrier landings. graduate of the naval academy and an ego the size of texas (but in a pleasant way; just very confident). well, when we moved to arkansas, there was a festival called "turkey trot" in our hometown. during the festival, turkeys would be dropped over the town, often from roof tops. well, we moved to town, and people found out he was a pilot. dad found out that the national forestry service would drop turkeys from small airplanes to distribute turkeys. so, for about 15 years, he and buddy would fly a small plane over the town (safely of course), and drop turkeys to people below; turkeys would fly down and run around and people would catch them and take them home for thanksgiving or release them (festival is in october). tshirts were made, news crews visited, magazines did articles...the National Enquirer, Saturday Evening Post, Wall Street Journal.

Well, the Environmentalists thought it was cruelty to animals, made a big stink about it. dad would have his pilots license suspended every year for 90 days until the faa finally said, ok you can do it but only those few days a year.

well, amidst all of this, Wall Street Journal interviewed him. The following was printed in the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal:

"We asked Commander USN retired , former fighter/attack pilot in the Navy for 25 years if he felt GUILTY about dropping turkeys out of airplanes. CDR Williams replied, "Do I feel GUILTY about dropping turkeys out of airplanes?? I dropped napalm on the vietnamese...hell no I don't feel guilty about dropping turkeys out of airplanes" !!

so i say again (thanks to my father's genes), screw being politically correct.

mark

Dave & Mark