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There is a slope so a dam can be built. All dirt to remain onsite. avg 8ft deep 3:1 slope

Last edited by wannapond0001; 12/20/18 10:10 AM.
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I can't estimate the time, but I built a 1/2 acre pond with a JD 550G dozer. It took a lot longer than I could imagine, and I had a JD 410E backhoe as well. So much depends on the topography, soil types, and water infiltration (as well as the operator). I hit springs which kept flowing in the driest weather and required me to trench in a drainage pipe to the bottom (still stayed wet at the bottom). As a disclaimer, I was learning to use the equipment during this build. I also took great care with the clay core and liner using a sheep's foot roller which has worked out great for me; tight as a drum all last summer. Good luck!

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I asked because a less experienced individual was quoting me with a jd450y rental. Not too keen on his pond building skills. I will probably pass.

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Originally Posted By: wannapond0001
I asked because a less experienced individual was quoting me with a jd450y rental. Not too keen on his pond building skills. I will probably pass.


If you try to build and compact with a dozer alone the dam will probably leak, at least for a couple of years, even if it's pure clay.

At least have heavy wheeled equipment, such as a large heavy tractor with loaded bucket to drive over and compact each layer. That's what we did with my second pond, and its dam seeped a little but stopped leaking after about 10 months.

Mine's about the size and depth the OP mentioned, and it took three days with a Case 650K dozer and large Case backhoe, with the dozer operating full time and the backhoe as needed. Two operators.

We used the backhoe also to distribute the stockpiled topsoil to the back of the dam at the end, then spread it with the dozer. It's been two years now, and the backside of the dam has great grass, thanks to the deep topsoil layer.

Last edited by John Fitzgerald; 12/20/18 12:57 PM.
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I tell them to include a compactor in the quote.

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Don’t know your level of experience. If it were me, and it’s not, I would buy Mike Otto’s book Just Add Water”.


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I keep seeing that book being mentioned. I had a guy come out and he builds ponds only. He actually does core trenches, and of course his quote is going to be 7-10k. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm sure it'll be in the middle. For that kind of money for a tiny pond, I'm going to wait for the first guy that wanted to dig it for 5500. Both own their equipment. I will not ever go with someone that needs to rent.

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Hard to say for me.

But some things help. If the dozer has a ripper that can be a BIG help. We have a D6N XL that I have used to clean out three ponds, build a 3 acre pond as well as a couple small sediment and forage ponds plus more lately a one acre pond. Never had a ripper on the back for any of them.

Bought a ripper for it because we had a number of terraces to build and running the ripper at the depth of the cut makes controlling the blade a lot easier, especially in clay.

Boy howdy. I wish we would have bought that ripper before digging all those ponds. In clay with good working moisture it does not make as much difference (although still helps a lot) but get in some clay that is on the dry side of working good and the ripper about doubles the dozer productivity. Even loading a scraper in really hard dirt can be facilitated by running the ripper just deep enough so the cutting edge stays on solid ground but the ground is ripped enough to make loading go faster.

In hard ground, the ripper saves a lot of wear and tear on both the dozer AND operator because the dozer can do a steady push of soil instead of the jerking and gouging that goes on with really tough, dry clay.

So if you have a choice in rental machines, I would take one with a ripper on the back over one without any day. The smaller the dozer, the more difference having looser soil to work with makes. On a 450 a ripper would help a lot.

Pushing out a hole in the ground is only about half the job. Where the time consumption comes in is properly compacting the dam and finishing out things. It is kind of like building a house. The frame work goes up fast. It is finishing the rest of it that takes forever.

Last edited by snrub; 12/21/18 08:40 AM.

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I can see how a ripper would help. I wonder if a smaller machine with rippers would be as good as the larger without? I am still searching..

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Hard to say but horsepower and weight is always helpful up to the point the machine gets too big to work in the desiginated area.

I would definitely choose a 650 without a ripper over a 450 with a ripper for the same money any day of the week. Even a 550 in hopes the pushing would be favorable over unfavorable.

450 is a pretty small machine. On my 3 acre pond a D7 or even a D6R would have been a better choice had I been a contractor doing the work. But we used what we had and even our little D6N will get a lot of work done if you keep after it.

Heck if you see some of the public works projects done with some of the old machines they used (or even horses and slips before that) you can do a lot with a small machine if you stay after it.

If you have the choice of getting a smaller machine for a lower cost per hour or a larger machine at a higher cost per hour, the larger machine will almost always be the better choice up to the size of machine that will fit in your hole. A late model D7 class machine will build a quarter acre pond in a heartbeat.
(although there is no need for you to even check on that size machine for your job). A JD 450 you will be at it a few days, depending on how thourough you do the job of compaction and how much dirt you have to move.

My D6N XL is about the perfect size machine for a quarter acre pond although it will build smaller or bigger. I would not be afraid of sitting on a D7 on a quarter acre pond although the rental prices of those are probably through the roof because even the moving of the machine gets expensive unless it is for agricultural use. And they probably would not let anyone but a professional operator run it. A D6R is a lot bigger machine than a D6N. An old D7 is about the size of my D6N. The newer diff steer or hydrostat machines are a lot faster cycling and steer better under load than the older clutch steer machines.

Edit: for comparison I think my D6N XL would be somewhere near comparable in weight and horsepower to a JD 700K although the 700K is hydrostat and newer. It is definitely bigger than a 650K.

Last edited by snrub; 12/21/18 09:34 AM.

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What do you think of an older '92 D4H with 300 hours on the undercarriage? It was 24k on craigslist. 7000 hours.

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Originally Posted By: wannapond0001
I will not ever go with someone that needs to rent.


My first pond was built by an experienced pond builder who rented really big equipment to supplement his smaller machines. He built a great pond fast and on budget. He rented a very large excavator and off-road dump truck.

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I've found that the ones that don't own equipment have less pond building experience. At least your pond builder own some equipment.

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I wonder how fast a Cat D11T could build a 1/4 acre pond? I bet it would take longer to unload and load it than the construction time.

The larger dozers are so much trouble to move, they are usually used only on long term projects like new multi mile sections of multi lane roads, mines, and huge developments. On the 40 plus mile interstate highway 540/I49 project completed near here in 1999, there were several D9G dozers being used for the huge cuts and fills through the Boston Mountains. I mountain biked with a buddy of mine on weekends (when they weren't working) through that project, and we were amazed at the size of some of the equipment.

Last edited by John Fitzgerald; 12/21/18 03:47 PM.
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If I couldn't find a suitable contractor and was tasked with digging my own ¼ acre pond, I'd probably rent a dozer, or a trackhoe, depending on the design of the pond, and the placement of the excavated material. A dozer will move an equal amount of dirt over a distance far quicker than a trackhoe will.

If for some reason I couldn't find a suitable rental, and I just had to buy a used machine to build a ¼ acre pond, I'd probably choose a backhoe over a tracked machine. Of course, it'd take longer to dig the pond, and I'd want to carefully plan my attack in regards to proceeding in and out with the machine, and the possibility of having to drain rainwater. But, not having to worry about the time constraints of a rental would allow me to work at my leisure, and I'm all about leisure.

A backhoe is far more versatile than a tracked machine, and can be used for numerous other tasks on the property. Backhoes are less expensive to haul, maintain, and repair, plus if it does break down, chances are, I can actually tow it back to the house to work on it. And when I'm finished with the backhoe, it'll likely be much easier to sell than would a tracked machine.

Disclaimer: The above is merely my opinion, which has been formed after witnessing, and hearing other horror stories of the 'joys' of bulldozer ownership. lol

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It will take a large 4WD wheeled backhoe to build a 1/4 acre pond in a reasonable time. Those are not easy to haul either, some weighing 20,000 lbs. A small dozer would be very useful in that situation, with a rear ripper, to dig, level, and finish. The backhoe with loaded bucket could be used for compacting the dam as it's built up. We used both a Case 650K dozer and a large Case backhoe to do my two 1/4 acre ponds.

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Originally Posted By: wannapond0001
What do you think of an older '92 D4H with 300 hours on the undercarriage? It was 24k on craigslist. 7000 hours.


Man I don't have a clue. Sounds kind of high but it all depends on condition. If it has also had major engine and transmission work it might be worth it but if not could be a money pit too. Just have to get on some of the on line construction machinery places and auctions to see where current market is at. They don't make a machine that small in high track style any more. Probably because too expensive to manufacture. The small ones (conventional track frame) are now made overseas I believe.


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I've rebuilt many engines, an old case diesel too. Can fix most things. Not afraid of old equipment. I've rebuilt a Case from engine to cylinders.

In any case, I'd rather not hire someone that's going to rent equipment but I just talked to a guy that seems to know what he's doing and charges 40/hr. He'd take down a bunch of trees too. I'd have to pay for the rentals though. In the end I'd get a slightly larger pond.
What do you guys think?

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I'll offer this with respect to hiring a guy that needs to rent the equipment....I would be more interested in his experience level than whether he owns his own equipment. It could be the guy has worked for someone else for years, has tons of experience and is now going out on his own but lacks the finances to own his own equipment, YET....To me, it all comes down to how good the guy is and not how much he owns. IMO GET REFERENCES and check them out, no matter who you hire.


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Agree with Bill and ditto on the references

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I do like the comfort in knowing that I won't lose any money if he doesn't finish in a timely manner or some other unknown issue comes up. I can see it now where he'd need more time and there goes more rental time. That's my main reason for wanting to hire someone that owns their own equipment and doesn't ask for a huge amount ahead of time. I had 2 wells drilled for geo and they didn't ask for a dime until it was done.

As for references, I honestly think anyone can fake a good reference.

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I would never hire a contractor who wanted pay in advance for a short job. If he doesn't have enough cash flow to do a one week job and wait until the end, he has bigger problems, and probably no money to maintain his equipment.

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A lot of contractors, large and small, rent their heavy equipment. And it's usually fairly new and dependable equipment............ When you hire a contractor you're basically renting their equipment anyhow, so it might as well be new equipment which is backed by a service department.

Also, It might pay to be cautious when hiring someone to run equipment that you've rented, because if they maliciously or negligently break something, You'll be liable for the cost of repair.

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Well the highest quote is 9k and I don't need to rent him equipment. It'll be slightly over 1/4 if I go with him. I will probably go with the hourly guy and set my limit at 6k with a rental.

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I would get more bids. My newer 1/4 acre pond 8 feet deep cost less than 2.8K in December 2016. I could have a one acre pond built here for 9k.

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I did get a bunch but most are newbies. The expensive guy knew what core trenching was. I'm going to wait for the first guy that was going to do it for 5500. It may never get done though since he's always busy. I'm still looking for a used machine though regardless.

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Originally Posted By: wannapond0001
I did get a bunch but most are newbies. The expensive guy knew what core trenching was. I'm going to wait for the first guy that was going to do it for 5500. It may never get done though since he's always busy. I'm still looking for a used machine though regardless.


That $5,500 is way high for what shouldn't take more than three days. Even assuming 10 hour days, that's $183 dollars per hour. Most around here are about $90 per hour for a medium dozer about the size of a Cat D5 or Case 650.

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I have to agree John. Around here it's about 15,000 per acre. But it could cost a little more for a smaller pond. After all it has to be worth his while to move equipment and time. If one can not make any money at pond building them I would stay at the house. $5,500 is not that much money these days when you consider moving in and out cost along with only a couple of days work. And since it is in Ohio, maybe things just cost more there.


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So many variables. If the water table is high, digging sludge is way more expensive than digging dry dirt. They had to move the stuff from my pond a minimum of three times to get it where I wanted it, dried out and to grade. Also, in Illinois anyway, it can cost the contractor many hundreds of dollars just for road permits to move/remove his equipment to/from the site.


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Water table is not an issue. i'm on a hill. The first guy that was going did get a permit to move his dozer, and that same day he mauled his hand so no pond for me. For 9k I'd want at least 1/2 acre.

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You're right he did say 3 days, but that's the lowest price around here. He didn't even want cash ahead of time. Everyone else wanted 1/3rd down or pay their rental fees. Even the guy that owns his own equipment wanted 9k. It's got a slope to it, it's minimal excavation time. It's not like they'd dig out dirt on flat ground and move it offsite. All dirt will be used for the dam.

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OMG holy crap. I was texting another guy about a pond and he said you're gonna want to rent a d8 and my budget should be 10 to 20k. I think he's high.

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I think costs here in Arkansas for dirt work must be about half the costs in Ohio. I wonder why?

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It must be. I saw a Cat D6D, with a 90% undercarriage for 26k. Supposedly 90... looks tempting

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WP, I had pond built about four years ago and looked at hiring an excavation company, buying equipment, or renting equipment and doing the work myself.I received bids from four excavation companies. Number 1 was a small independent contractor that was very knowledgeable about building ponds and lakes ( he had worked for the State DNR building ponds) but was going to have to rent some larger equipment and hire some help to do the work I needed.He did good work but I had talked to one guy who waiting over a year to have his pond dug and finally found another contractor. Contractor number 2 was a local well known company with a few employees and good references but he was so busy working in some new housing additions that he really did not seem interested in moving his equipment to build my pond. He said that my 3 acre pond would be done start to finish in 6 days.His bid was a little higher than the other three and I got the feeling if my job went past the six day mark the cost would be higher.He also mentioned that he would probably not be there to oversee the work.Contractor number 3 was a father-son outfit which was my cheapest bid by about 6k. They argued most of the time while they were here giving an estimate. The father was trying to talk me into reducing the size of the pond. He said it had been a few months since their largest dozer had been started and said he would leave the large dozer at my pondsite until the his next large job to cut down on hauling costs.In addition to these red flags, the father took a phone call from another potential customer and talked for 15 minutes during my estimate.Needless to say, I was ready for them to leave.Contractor number 4 was another larger company that specialized in building landfill cells and watershed projects. The owner asked me if I wanted "a bid" or "an estimate". I asked what was the difference. He said that an estimate could always cost more ,but a bid would be higher but would not go a dime over!
I went with contractor number 4.He owned all his own equipment and had enough equipment that he was able use my job as fill-in work (his shop is only 5 miles from here). Which worked out good for both of us.They usually left one or two pieces of equipment here and worked on the pond when the weather and their schedule allowed.
The first day when they delivered an 84000lb excavator with 5ft bucket and filled it with 115 gallon diesel fuel @ $4 a gallon I was glad I had not tried to build the pond myself.
My pond from start to final grade took about 13 months time. My ground was wetter than they ever imaged. The first operator came real close to burying the large excavator but luckily they always had other equipment there to help get equipment unstuck. I cant imagine what it would cost to have an outside company come in to remove a piece of rental equipment out of the quagmire.The company at times had a D6 dozer, a brand new D6LGP dozer, a 42000 lb excavator, a 84000 lb excavator,a skid steer,a 350hp tractor with a dirt pan,and a 130hp tractor on site.They had a few breakdowns.First was a $3500 drive motor on the small excavator, second was a busted hydraulic hose in an immovable dozer that was frozen to the ground in 15 deg temps which took 3 frigid days to fix, and lastly they had they older d6 dozer which was having electrical issues and required a CAT service tech.
Sorry my post is so long but I just wanted to emphasize that pond building can pose a lot of unexpected obstacles and expense especially with wet ground and using equipment with more than a few operating hours on the meter.
When all is said and done I love my pond and it is one of the best investments I have made. But I am not sure that my contractor made much money building my pond after all the lost man hours working on equipment and paying for repairs.I had some fence rows removed over and above the pond build and his charge rate for the excavator and dozer was 115 per hour each. My total pond build was a around 22k but after you subtract parts,fuel,hauling permits,and labor there probably was not much $$$ left.

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That's quite the story. My pond is gonna be tiny though smile.

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Did you ever buy and read the book that was recommended? Mike Otto’s book Just Add Water”. So far that has been the best cost you have been offered.

Last edited by Bing; 12/27/18 01:24 PM.

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I ordered it yesterday. I found a guy that can operate a dozer, so we shall see. I'll have to instruct him on core trenching.

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If you have to instruct him on how to brick a core trench then you have not found a pond builder.


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Pond builder wants 9k for a 1/4 acre. I will take my chances.

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I hope you get the pond of your dreams.


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An acre would be the pond of my dreams. I just don't have the acreage width wise. It's a narrow 4.5 acre. I might do 2 ponds if the first turns out ok.

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I'm in the process of constructing my own dam. I'm renting a 30k excavator,a d6 and a compactor. Just measured my dam to be 25ft tall and about 100ft long. I'm damming up a ravine. What's your guy's thoughts on a 2:1 slope on water side and 3:1 on the back side. I have great clay material and plenty of it.

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3 to 1 is tricky to mow but doable. 4 to 1 is much more comfortable.

2 to 1 is tough to work and impossible to pack the face, although the lifts building the dam up can be properly compacted so doesnt have to be a big issue.

I personally would want the 3 to one on the water side and at least 3 ro 1 on the dry side with any extra spoils to make it less steep than that if possible. 4 to 1 much better to keep the trees and overgrowth off.

Working a 45 degree slope is no fun. A dozer will barely climb up it, let alone push anything. Get sideways on it and you might end up dead. That complicates further pond management.

Edit: just reread your post. Those steep slopes could be made to work on that small of pond. But 2 to 1 on the inside is going to be much more prone to sloughing off and dam erosion so may be counterproductive in the long run.

Not an expert here. But I do have some practical experience.

Last edited by snrub; 03/13/19 07:31 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Magshine
I'm in the process of constructing my own dam. I'm renting a 30k excavator,a d6 and a compactor. Just measured my dam to be 25ft tall and about 100ft long. I'm damming up a ravine. What's your guy's thoughts on a 2:1 slope on water side and 3:1 on the back side. I have great clay material and plenty of it.

He's done with my pond. It took him couple hours to dig mine with just a D6 because due to trash, I can only have a tiny 1/8 or 1/10 acre pond. He said with great clay like mine it didn't need compaction. He was right. No leaks and it's full.

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That's great

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Why does it matter if they have to rent? Most business get started by renting! In fact that is what I’m in the process of doing. These machines are very expensive and just because he rents doesn’t mean he’s not qualified for the job, most people start a business doing what they did as their career, maybe he worked for an excavating company for 20 years and just didn’t have 2 million to go out and buy all this brand new equipment

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Recent Posts
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/28/24 11:01 AM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by esshup - 03/28/24 10:39 AM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by Theo Gallus - 03/28/24 10:27 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by Freg - 03/28/24 09:42 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by esshup - 03/28/24 08:36 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by Justin W - 03/28/24 08:19 AM
Reducing fish biomass
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:18 AM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:05 PM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Freeze Danger? - Electric Diaphragm Pump
by esshup - 03/26/24 09:47 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

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