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My BOW fell about two vertical feet during the summer drought. Ordinarily this wouldn't be so bad, as I still had depths down to 19 feet, but...

But I noticed that my heavily wooded back bays, where tiny creeks run into the lake, were deserted during that time. These are relatively shallow areas, maybe 5 feet deep at full pool. When they got down to 2 to 3 feet, LMB seemed to abandon the area. Too hot, too low O2 levels, not sure all the reasons why. Also very tough to maneuver a boat or cast without getting hung up!

This got me to thinking about low cost ways to raise the water level. After all, just five more inches would be an extra 1 million gallons of water to carry me thru summer!

That said, I have a standpipe system on the back of the dam. It is currently running over the top, wasting all that good water I will need next summer.

So here's my question: Would it make sense to have someone weld another four or five inches of 9 3/8 inch metal pipe on to the top of the system? The dam wouldn't need refurbishing, though it is possible I might get more use for the emergency spillway (it has only flowed once). Four or five inches doesn't sound like much, but certainly would help in the shallow back bays.

Thoughts? Anybody ever do this?

PS Fishing showed the LMB came into the wooded back bays when full pool was achieved a few weeks ago.

Last edited by anthropic; 11/26/18 01:40 AM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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I think you have captured all the concerns that I can think of.

More water/depth is good, you can't argue that so long as the balance between emergency overflow and regular drainage is to your liking. I guess the real question is...How often has the water level been 5 inches from going over the emergency spillway?

It would be easier to cut the extension back off if you did not like it. Although, I have to wonder what kind of precautions one would have to consider taking a generator, a welder, and a boat out to do a welded extension? That's a lot of electricity and a lot of water! Curious minds want to know.

I would consider using a rubber coupling and strap-clamps to try out the extension.


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Thanks, Quarter. In my case the standpipe is on dry land behind the dam, so electrical concerns probably wouldn't be too bad. On the other hand, may need a cherry picker to get 20 plus feet up in the air.

I like your idea of using a rubber system with clamps that could be taken off easily if necessary. If emergency spillway is a problem with higher water level, sure would be easier than cutting off what was welded on!


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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OK, so you have something like this?...



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Last edited by Quarter Acre; 11/26/18 12:40 PM.

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Agree with Q.A.

If you've got enough dam strength and freeboard, more water is great!


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
OK, so you have something like this?...




Yep. Like to get rid of the bottom water, not the top.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Originally Posted By: Sunil
Agree with Q.A.

If you've got enough dam strength and freeboard, more water is great!


No major leaks so far, though it does have a steep 3 to 1 back slope. Water has gotten more than five inches above full pool, including flood event when spillway was roaring, without any problems.

As for freeboard, right now at full pool I have about 2.5 feet to emergency spillway, 4 - 5 feet to top of dam.

Probably my biggest issue will be raising the feeders a bit and making sure the extra water doesn't intrude on neighbors.

Last edited by anthropic; 11/26/18 03:27 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Originally Posted By: anthropic
Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
OK, so you have something like this?...




Yep. Like to get rid of the bottom water, not the top.


I like your means of controlling water level. Have you considered annual flooding? Something like this.

After Fall turnover and O2 stable, reduce the water level exposing bank. Seed with rye and crimson clover(or other appropriate legume) and allow to grow over the winter. In the Spring, raise the water level and flood the newly grown vegetation.

This might be a good way to get winter grown primary production into your BOW on an annual basis. Crayfish and your newly introduced PK shrimp would use it for cover and feed. By summer it would be broken down and incorporated into forage.

Winter drawdown might also help your LMB growth through winter by concentrating BG.


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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Originally Posted By: jpsdad
Originally Posted By: anthropic
Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
OK, so you have something like this?...




Yep. Like to get rid of the bottom water, not the top.


I like your means of controlling water level. Have you considered annual flooding? Something like this.

After Fall turnover and O2 stable, reduce the water level exposing bank. Seed with rye and crimson clover(or other appropriate legume) and allow to grow over the winter. In the Spring, raise the water level and flood the newly grown vegetation.

This might be a good way to get winter grown primary production into your BOW on an annual basis. Crayfish and your newly introduced PK shrimp would use it for cover and feed. By summer it would be broken down and incorporated into forage.

Winter drawdown might also help your LMB growth through winter by concentrating BG.


I've seriously considered doing exactly that. Drawdowns can help the fishery even when there are no invasive weeds to fight. Lake Jackson in Florida is famous for periodically vanishing down sinkholes and then refilling, stronger than ever. I actually fished there in the 1960s and was astounded to see lots of 12, 13, even 14 lb bass mounts!

There are two issues that I'd need to think about. One is that I cannot maintain a low level without constant attention. I can drain all right, but after a rain I'd need to drain again, by hand. No calibration is possible with my setup.

The other issue is lots of small, skinny LMB. Doing my best to cull them, 64 removed so far this year, but it's a battle & I need to do a lot more. Probably need to take out 200 plus a year!

Here's the rub: According to an article I read in the nov/dec PB magazine, drawdowns are not advisable for BOW with excess skinny LMB. Apparently the forage fish are ravaged, as they must come out of hiding, but there aren't enough of them to feed all the starving LMB. By the time the drawdown is over, there are even fewer prey left to feed the LMB and the situation is worse than it was originally.

If I can get a handle on LMB numbers, would like to try drawdown idea. I know it works in the right situation.

Last edited by anthropic; 11/26/18 04:20 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Just giving some more thought to it . . .

If you decide to try the drawdown idea in the future ... one thing comes to mind. You've got BG and TP and they produce well through the Summer. If you are concerned about quickly growing forage early in the season, GSH may help. They begin reproduction at cooler temps than BG and would utilize the flooded winter growth for egg laying substrate. If a small introduction is made at the time of flooding and flooding is done at favorable temps, then you might get many times their weight in reproduction at about the time BG begin to reproduce. They would compete with TP and help your smaller Bass RW.


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If you did a planned draw down, and I mean IF ('cause you may not get water to fill it back up), you could do an electroshock and do a lot of instant culling of LMB.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Originally Posted By: Sunil
If you did a planned draw down, and I mean IF ('cause you may not get water to fill it back up), you could do an electroshock and do a lot of instant culling of LMB.


That's a good point. Shocking could be much more effective as a management tool in a drawdown. I did cull 20 LMB from about 35 minutes of shocking with Justin Stane six weeks ago, sure would have been nice to take out 2 or 3 times that many.

Last edited by anthropic; 11/27/18 12:29 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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There are two ways to look at a similar process.

If Normal pool is the present drain setting then raising the height of drain makes for a flood pool. Conversely, lowering the height of the drain makes for a drawdown pool. So if you delayed raising the water level until spring you might still have opportunity for cool season growth along the bank before flooding. Under this scenario you wouldn't be concentrating BG until next fall when you drop the water level to "normal pool". Also, this scenario still preserves your existing water level, however, you would only get the benefit of flooding if the rain comes.


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Someone may have addressed it but doing a drawdown would be really easy with your current standpipe. You can make a U shaped siphon that slips into the top of the standpipe. Make the flooded part inside the standpipe to the depth you want so that when it gets to the correct level it would break the siphon. If that doesn’t make sense I can do a drawing tomorrow.

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Some collage work would be nice, Chris.

Brettski can translate if needed...


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Originally Posted By: Chris Steelman
Someone may have addressed it but doing a drawdown would be really easy with your current standpipe. You can make a U shaped siphon that slips into the top of the standpipe. Make the flooded part inside the standpipe to the depth you want so that when it gets to the correct level it would break the siphon. If that doesn’t make sense I can do a drawing tomorrow.


Thanks, Chris. Not being the sharpest knife in the kitchen, I'd like to see your drawing to better understand. If I can get my LMB population under control, would like to do a drawdown.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Drawdown talk brings up an interesting subject: Could this be used to lower LMB reproduction? CNBG will spawn repeatedly through the summer, but LMB tend to spawn mostly in the early spring.

What if the drawdown lasted from, say, January through April? If prime LMB spawning areas were high & dry, say in a six foot drawdown, would many just not spawn that year? For me, that would be great!


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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How tall is the standpipe on the backside of the dam?

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About 25 feet


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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With the droughts we see from time to time I would look to raising the water level if I could. I like the concept of dropping water level, letting green plants grow and then raising the water level back. Makes for outstanding fishing a yr or two down the road.


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


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Drawdowns when the water source is rain/run-off are a butt-clenching gamble especially in Texas. Maybe not so much East Texas, but still.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
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Sunil we have seen some really bad droughts in E. Texas over the past 10 years. A few years back they dropped the water on Toledo Bend and it took about 3 years for the water to come back due to drought. But when it did come back to normal the lake went back to being the number one bass lake in the USA.


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TGW1, understood.

I wouldn't want to give up any water under those potential circumstances.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Here is a picture of how you can build a siphon that fits into the top of your standpipe. Since yours would be 25' in the air it might be to risky to install but at least this gives you some options. Here is a basic parts list.

Check valve
Ball valve
pipe
2- elbows
t- fitting
plug

The check valve goes inside the standpipe and the ball valve goes on the back side. The length of pipe inside the standpipe will determine how far down the water will drop. To get it primed you will close the ball valve and fill the pipe with water through the top of the T fitting. When it is full you will cap the T fitting and then open the ball valve.


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Now we know who NOT to go to when we need real collage engineering drafting work done.....

Last edited by Bill Cody; 11/29/18 11:12 AM. Reason: added engineering drafting. Note Chris & Sunil are friends or a lest they used to be friends!

Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


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