The only negative "conclusion" I have ever seen is by TPWD on a southern Texas lake that had a LMB decline.....the biologist in charge could not find any cause, so he simply blamed Tilapia, yet had nothing that supported Tilapia being at fault. (in fact, the report stated Tilapia were in all fish tested)..seems to me tilapia were keeping things fed....
Perhaps in that case the lake was so far south that the annual TP die-off doesn't happen?
It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers
The only negative "conclusion" I have ever seen is by TPWD on a southern Texas lake that had a LMB decline.....the biologist in charge could not find any cause, so he simply blamed Tilapia, yet had nothing that supported Tilapia being at fault. (in fact, the report stated Tilapia were in all fish tested)..seems to me tilapia were keeping things fed....
Perhaps in that case the lake was so far south that the annual TP die-off doesn't happen?
The Tilapia there are Blue Tilapia, probably a hybrid that will die around 52 (pure die at 45). Contrary to what you may think, there is no late fall/winter reproduction and often the temps drop to the ranges that cause Tilapia to become lethargic. There is no known lake or pond in the USA that has become inundated with Tilapia....In order to spawn, Tilapia need temps above 70 AND a longer photoperiod than exists in North America outside the mid springs, summers and mid falls for more southern latitudes. If you get any cool spells, Tilapia will concentrate in warm water pockets, be lethargic, and get hammered by everything that can eat them.
In TX, you can only stock Mozambique, because the lethal temp is 52-55...but in south Florida, the more cold tolerant (45*) Blue Tilapia is the only Tilapia allowed to even be possessed
I do recall a polyculture food fish study with catfish and "tilapia" (species not identified)....100 pounds of Tilapia were put into a catfish pond containing 1000 pounds of catfish. No feeding or aeration was done and at harvest 4 months later, there was 1260 pounds of catfish with 20% mortality by numbers and over 1000 pounds of tilapia.
I have a 1/8 to 1/10 acre forage pond that I'd like to make into a good spot for my grandkids to catch big fish we can eat. (Also to keep some of the large LMB around the dock from being hooked!) Was thinking of growing CC, but you've got me interested in TP as well. Feeding would be done, and I guess I'd need aeration as well.
Any thoughts on how the CC plus TP combo might work? Can TP be caught on a hook, say with a Stubby Steve, in such a situation?
Buddy, Tilapia in LA will get your pond drained and sterilized...but on the bright side, the state or Fed will probaly feed you for months to years.....Tilapia are Very frowned upon in LA!!! The state even rotenoned over 100 acres of a bayou where ONE tilapia was found a few years ago...prolly killed every fish EXCEPT tilapia too...
I was just suggesting a possible reason for the exception. An annual die off seems to me to be good thing that ensures their benefit. We do have blue tilapia which persist in some reservoirs down here. I am unfamiliar with the case you referenced and TWPD determinations/conclusions.
Now you've got me looking for it. Not sure if this may be what you were referring to?
Last edited by jpsdad; 07/05/1803:55 PM.
It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers
It may have been Fairfield....I can't find the study either now, so it may have been pulled....Here is some TX propaganda for a read...I hate to even start on how much in this is completely false, but hey, it's deemed an invasive, so they need to scare readers... http://www.tsusinvasives.org/home/database/oreochromis-aureus
They may have backed off blaming tilapia for Lake Fairfield fish kills. What I've been able to find ... they stop short of doing so. This lake and similar lakes which experience frequent fish kills are power plant lakes which have very warm water. In late summer and fall as day length shortens significantly, water temperature remain high which keeps fish life oxygen demands high and bacterial activity oxygen demands high. These kills might likely happen with no tilapia present. Tilapia are in these lakes because they stay warm enough to keep them alive through the winter.
The link you provided suggest that in some cases the power plant companies have stocked the fish themselves.
Last edited by jpsdad; 07/05/1804:34 PM.
It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers
..I would love to see a thread on your management style ... do you have a thread covering your management approach? If not please consider one.
Thank you, but John (snrub) would have to be the ghost writer.
Well, you could take a midnight boat ride in Nebraska to get started writing......
I prefer not to talk about my heroic actions that night. Thor comes to mind. With my platinum mane glistening in the moonlight, I can think of no one else.
What should the post spawn RW of a LMB be in a TX pond be? Are your numbers different than mine?
I don't have a number. I was just curious if the number itself might have motivated you stock the TP. I've been releasing all the bass I catch in local public BOWs. Some have decent length. I would say their condition is poor any time of year but don't know their RWs.
Last edited by jpsdad; 07/05/1804:50 PM.
It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers
I do recall a polyculture food fish study with catfish and "tilapia" (species not identified)....100 pounds of Tilapia were put into a catfish pond containing 1000 pounds of catfish. No feeding or aeration was done and at harvest 4 months later, there was 1260 pounds of catfish with 20% mortality by numbers and over 1000 pounds of tilapia.
I have a 1/8 to 1/10 acre forage pond that I'd like to make into a good spot for my grandkids to catch big fish we can eat. (Also to keep some of the large LMB around the dock from being hooked!) Was thinking of growing CC, but you've got me interested in TP as well. Feeding would be done, and I guess I'd need aeration as well.
Any thoughts on how the CC plus TP combo might work? Can TP be caught on a hook, say with a Stubby Steve, in such a situation?
Frank, I can not speak of the CC but I can say catching Tp was no problem at all when I had the high numbers of them in the pond. A beaded fly would catch one as soon as it hit the water or within a second or so after it hit the water. When fishing around the feeders. Most of them ran in the one to 1.5 lb range. I did not want to increase the feed amounts or I am sure their average wt would have been much higher. And because of such high numbers of them, I was visited by all kinds of fish eating animals and birds at the time. I can also say they were really good eating, much better than bought at the store.
Last edited by TGW1; 07/05/1805:11 PM.
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
What should the post spawn RW of a LMB be in a TX pond be? Are your numbers different than mine?
I don't have a number. I was just curious if the number itself might have motivated you stock the TP. I've been releasing all the bass I catch in local public BOWs. Some have decent length. I would say their condition is poor any time of year but don't know their RWs.
I get that. I'm not much of a record keeper either.
JPS, I was agreeing with you. You and I are each moving LMB for a specific reason, and I rarely weigh or measure my LMB when doing so. It's a number's game for me, so the only valid and consistent info I have is from my electroshockings. We get one every other year.
You just seem to have very good handle on your BOW. When I read discussions in threads ... sometimes I am just filled with curiosity with what is possible. Like is a standing weight of 300 lbs of LMB possible with TP? How does Al achieve 1.5 # bluegill and 8# bass at the same time? I have a great measure of respect with what you've accomplished with your BOW. I wouldn't otherwise ask. It was a lot of questions and I can certainly understand if you felt a bit perturbed with so many all at once.
It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers
Thank you for that, but here's the deal. I have an 11 acre BOW that goes from a pond, to a puddle, to a swamp depending on the rain we get, so I always try to be careful with sharing what experiences I have here that might be unique to my particular place. Tilapia are fish I've stocked for algae control, LMB snacks, used for LMB forage in my little hatchery pond, and grown out fingerlings from male/female breeding pairs, so I feel comfortable sharing what I know. The thing I can't give advice on is numbers to be stocked. I've targeted tilapia stocking based on whatever the goal for the year is, so even here, the poundage and size can change annually.
I'll be more than happy to answer any questions I think I can give a valid answer too. I just don't want to throw anything crazy out, because believe me, I've tried it all.
I do recall a polyculture food fish study with catfish and "tilapia" (species not identified)....100 pounds of Tilapia were put into a catfish pond containing 1000 pounds of catfish. No feeding or aeration was done and at harvest 4 months later, there was 1260 pounds of catfish with 20% mortality by numbers and over 1000 pounds of tilapia.
I have a 1/8 to 1/10 acre forage pond that I'd like to make into a good spot for my grandkids to catch big fish we can eat. (Also to keep some of the large LMB around the dock from being hooked!) Was thinking of growing CC, but you've got me interested in TP as well. Feeding would be done, and I guess I'd need aeration as well.
Any thoughts on how the CC plus TP combo might work? Can TP be caught on a hook, say with a Stubby Steve, in such a situation?
Buddy, Tilapia in LA will get your pond drained and sterilized...but on the bright side, the state or Fed will probaly feed you for months to years.....Tilapia are Very frowned upon in LA!!! The state even rotenoned over 100 acres of a bayou where ONE tilapia was found a few years ago...prolly killed every fish EXCEPT tilapia too...
You're absolutely right, thanks for the warning. Fortunately, my BOW is in Texas.
Thank you for that, but here's the deal. I have an 11 acre BOW that goes from a pond, to a puddle, to a swamp depending on the rain we get, so I always try to be careful with sharing what experiences I have here that might be unique to my particular place. Tilapia are fish I've stocked for algae control, LMB snacks, used for LMB forage in my little hatchery pond, and grown out fingerlings from male/female breeding pairs, so I feel comfortable sharing what I know. The thing I can't give advice on is numbers to be stocked. I've targeted tilapia stocking based on whatever the goal for the year is, so even here, the poundage and size can change annually.
I'll be more than happy to answer any questions I think I can give a valid answer too. I just don't want to throw anything crazy out, because believe me, I've tried it all.
Your situation is tough, but the advantage is that you indeed HAVE seen it all!
I do recall a polyculture food fish study with catfish and "tilapia" (species not identified)....100 pounds of Tilapia were put into a catfish pond containing 1000 pounds of catfish. No feeding or aeration was done and at harvest 4 months later, there was 1260 pounds of catfish with 20% mortality by numbers and over 1000 pounds of tilapia.
I have a 1/8 to 1/10 acre forage pond that I'd like to make into a good spot for my grandkids to catch big fish we can eat. (Also to keep some of the large LMB around the dock from being hooked!) Was thinking of growing CC, but you've got me interested in TP as well. Feeding would be done, and I guess I'd need aeration as well.
Any thoughts on how the CC plus TP combo might work? Can TP be caught on a hook, say with a Stubby Steve, in such a situation?
Frank, I can not speak of the CC but I can say catching Tp was no problem at all when I had the high numbers of them in the pond. A beaded fly would catch one as soon as it hit the water or within a second or so after it hit the water. When fishing around the feeders. Most of them ran in the one to 1.5 lb range. I did not want to increase the feed amounts or I am sure their average wt would have been much higher. And because of such high numbers of them, I was visited by all kinds of fish eating animals and birds at the time. I can also say they were really good eating, much better than bought at the store.
Thanks, Tracy. That's encouraging, except for the fish eating animals & birds part! One advantage of my growout pond is that the water is very fertile, viz never exceeded 12 inches, so predators had a hard time seeing & taking the fish.
...in short, Tilapia are excellent for growing LMB!
I would never argue differently. When I agreed that I would like to see research I speak specifically of gaining knowledge of how they may affect BG.
I will try to dig out some of the studies on TFS vs BG vs Tilapia. They are all over the range of results because the lakes and conditions varied - it all depends.
TFS and BG eat different things at different times and generally only compete for food at the very margin. Bob noted this. Plankton present and when the small yoy BG eat it are different from when the TFS eat the same plankton. TFS are mostly consumed by small to mid sized LMB. Bigger LMB 4+ lbs do much better on larger BG and Tilapia - Rex noted this - as a big LMB chasing TFS is an energetic waste for the LMB when it can eat 5 inch BG or Tilapia.
I was involved in the study Bob mentioned. I have serious doubts that the LMB were not eating tilapia. I think it was a size and time of year aberration. In the very least they removed pressure on the BG ,shad and other possible forage species. There were many species present - not a traditional LMB , BG , tilapia type lake.
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