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So ribbons started showing up in the pond yesterday when it got up to a whopping 45 degrees and bright sun. A foot of snow on the ground and the water temp is 43. They happen to be on the side where the sun shines the most, so the best I can figure is the water and soil on the bottom was warm enough for them.

Crazy buggers.

It probably isn't going to be warm enough for the fry for another month!

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The eggs will develop and hatch slowly when water is in the 40's. Thanks for the update of YP egg laying. I will start looking closer for egg ribbons.


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Hello.

Here there is still a lot of ice, but it is thin, last night with a spot I saw some big Yellow perch get closer to the edge.

A+

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Pond locked up with ice again last night, and most ponds in the area still have quite a lot of ice cover. The sun is strong this time of year, so I find it interesting the perch couldn't wait a little longer. It is not predicted to be above freezing for another 10 days, but plenty of sun. It will likely warm the water quite a lot despite the cold.

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My thermometer still says 45 degrees. Cloudy and cold, but one perch has laid the first ribbon at our place this year. I think it's earlier than last year, which was a much warmer winter/spring. This one ribbon was on the dam. It's the north end of the pond, but gets the most sun.

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Last edited by SetterGuy; 03/18/18 01:06 PM.

9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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Article in the current PB mag on YP spawning and early growth.
















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SetterGuy, DING DING, here comes the next generation of striped fuselage YP!! Way to go!

I wonder if the oak leaves do something to get the perch to spawn early. I know they are brown and probably attract heat but so are the maple leaves. I have heavy layer of oak leaves in the shallows of my pond and they tend to put the eggs right on the oak leaves way in the shallow water and swim right by the branches that I nicely left for them.

We have had very nice sunny days, a bit brisk with the wind and cold nights. I'm hoping the YP will hold off a bit yet but I expect I'll see a ribbon in the next 7days if this weather holds up. We would be early too if we get them before April 1st.

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I had around 20 YP in the warm shallows of my pond yesterday, sunning themselves over leaf piles - no ribbons yet. I'll get some surface temp readings next time I'm down there


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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
SetterGuy, DING DING, here comes the next generation of striped fuselage YP!! Way to go!

I wonder if the oak leaves do something to get the perch to spawn early. I know they are brown and probably attract heat but so are the maple leaves. I have heavy layer of oak leaves in the shallows of my pond and they tend to put the eggs right on the oak leaves way in the shallow water and swim right by the branches that I nicely left for them.

We have had very nice sunny days, a bit brisk with the wind and cold nights. I'm hoping the YP will hold off a bit yet but I expect I'll see a ribbon in the next 7days if this weather holds up. We would be early too if we get them before April 1st.


CC, I hope I'm getting good recruitment from these YP ribbons. I'm a little concerned that the fry really get hammered by the GSH. Would it be a good idea to put screens around the ribbons for a while? I've just been letting nature take its course for the last three springs. Seems like I'm getting more HBG (which I hoped wouldn't reproduce) and GSH, than I am catching YP. I remove every HBG I catch.
Just wondering if there's anything I can do to help survivability of the YP fry. Unfortunately they are laying these ribbons as far as they can from all the structure I've put in the pond.

I have a digital thermometer at the farm. I'll lay that in next to the ribbon and see what the water temp is right there. I'll bet it is warmer on those oak leaves. They ignore my branches also.

Ewest, I got my latest issue of PB mag yesterday. I hope to have time to actually read some of it tonight.

Thx,
Jeff

Last edited by SetterGuy; 03/20/18 11:16 AM.

9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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For sure, get that thermometer right at the ribbons and see if there is a temp difference. I can only speculate but it seems that water temp and sun exposure is part of the equation but I had ribbons in the mesh of one of my taller pyramid/dome style minnow nets. It was as if the perch wanted to swim into or over something that the eggs could get snagged on and help pull them out? I wonder if that is why the assumption is that branches are what they are preferring since some ribbons are found draped on branches. I wonder if somehow the oak leaves are stiff enough that they can snag the ribbon on the leaf and wiggle around and have the ribbon come out better. Imagine having to get that huge ribbon out of a tiny hole and you might wish you had a suction pump or something to snag it on so you could swim the opposite way and get the egg laying over with in a hurry too..

Bill C might know if the GSH eat the eggs before they hatch (never heard that) or if the fry are consumed by the GSH.

It would be fairly easy to put a mesh around a few egg ribbons to see if protecting them helps.

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Fish are not eating the YP eggs as my experience and shown by research in the current article by ewest in the Mar-Apr PBoss magagine. Newly hatched fry are very tasty and vulnerable to all sorts of critters that can locate the fry. Fry when they 1st wiggle out of the egg encasement will rest on the bottom for a short period before becoming free swimming. When free swimming I think the fry move to open water for a few weeks where they are again vulnerable to open water (pelagic) predators.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/20/18 01:22 PM.

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Hello.

A good answer from Mr.Cody.


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Yes GSH and other small fish will eat the yellow perch fry until the fry get too big to fit into the mouth of the predator. However depending on the number of fry, number of shiners, and amount of cover all will govern the survival rate of the YP fry. A large number of adult shiners could easily and significantly reduce the recruitment of YP. This is the situation of Dono from Ontario who has lots of shiners (common and emerald) and his YP recruitment is quite low. I have common numbers of spotfin shiners, but not as abundant and I have good recruitment of YP.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/20/18 01:23 PM.
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I'm sorry if I gave you all the impression I was worried that the eggs were getting eaten. I was, and still am concerned the the fry are getting eaten pretty quickly by the GSH. (Not the eggs)
Not really sure there's much I can do about it. I may cut some cedar branches and lay them in next to the ribbons. Three years ago I had more ribbons than I could count. Last year I had maybe 20. I'll be back up Friday to see how many I'm getting this year. So far it's just the one.
Thanks for all the info. I will get an accurate temp on Friday.

Last edited by SetterGuy; 03/20/18 04:53 PM.

9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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IMO - The most effective thing you can do to reduce predation of the fry is to reduce the number of fry predators - shiners.


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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
IMO - The most effective thing you can do to reduce predation of the fry is to reduce the number of fry predators - shiners.


They have been hitting small jigs. I won't be putting any back. I thought my SMB would control them, plus some HSB. The GSH have been in three years, the (25) HSB and (60) SMB for two and a half yrs. (pond is a little less than an acre.)
We've kept two of the SMB that were caught by grandkids, and considered the largest fish ever seen. wink

I've put out traps over the years. Used to catch FHM. Lately I mostly catch small HBG, which may be evolving to GSF.. (as I also added 250 HBG 2+ yrs ago) I've been working hard to remove all the HBG I can. I am kicking myself for ever adding any.

Last edited by SetterGuy; 03/21/18 09:03 AM.

9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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If you are catching numerous HBG in traps that is a good indication that they are likely significantly reducing the numbers of small YP in the 1/2" to 1" sizes. They are aggressive with large appetites. If you think the recruitment of YP is low, consider doing some ladder stocking of 5"-7" YP to bolster their population so the number of egg ribbons are plentiful until you get the HBG population significantly reduced and you begin to see 3"-5" YP in the catches/sampling.


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Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
I was, and still am concerned the the fry are getting eaten pretty quickly by the GSH. (Not the eggs)
Not really sure there's much I can do about it.


Yes you can habituate them in place using a blocking net or ridged plastic fencing. Pick an area where the YP place ribbons. Back seine it from shore out with a blocking net and set the net. Then place branches inside the net and add YP ribbons. It wont eliminate all or most of the pond wide predation but will help increase YP numbers.
















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Thank you Bill and Eric! I like having plans and goals. Got a lot of sun today. I'll see how many ribbons are out on Friday.
Thanks again,
Jeff


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
Thank you Bill and Eric! I like having plans and goals. Got a lot of sun today. I'll see how many ribbons are out on Friday.
Thanks again,
Jeff



Seems like it was only yesterday I was pulling ribbons out of my hauling tanks from fish going into your pond laugh

Jeff, you stocked YP pretty densely at my suggestion because of predation concern, and to be able to maintain a reproducing YP population. How readily are you catching YP, and how many are 7 inches or smaller? I guess you're no longer concerned all your shiners comitted suicide in the landscape netting...lol

Last edited by Rainman; 03/21/18 06:33 PM.


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As I recall from his prior posts he harvested some adult YP last year. Likely there should be a significant reduction of smaller HSB and or shiners if both are abundant.


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Originally Posted By: Rainman

Jeff, you stocked YP pretty densely at my suggestion because of predation concern, and to be able to maintain a reproducing YP population. How readily are you catching YP, and how many are 7 inches or smaller? I guess you're no longer concerned all your shiners comitted suicide in the landscape netting...lol


Rex, I did harvest some adult YP last year. About 40 all together. That's down from 50-60 the year before. The HBG attack every bait that's thrown in. We stocked 1200 YP over the years. I'm sure some didn't make it, but there has to be some left. I remember being so shocked when I saw 100s of GSH tangled in the grass nets. I was so careful to cut each one out, trying to save them all. They are getting pretty big now! And there's a bunch of them.

I'm up at the pond now. Two more ribbons, so now there are three. I laid the temp probe in the water right next to the ribbon. 48.3 degrees by one, 46.7 next to another. I did not put in the screen around the ribbons. I'm thinking it's still early, and I'll hopefully get more ribbons.
Here's the last two ribbons.

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IMG_5225.JPG IMG_5226.JPG
Last edited by SetterGuy; 03/22/18 04:28 PM.

9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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Three of four more ribbons this morning. I guess they are starting to kick in. I won't be back for a while, so I'm going to cut some cedar branches, and sink them by the ribbons.
We have rain in the forecast for four of the next five days, so it will probably go just like last year. My pond will rise three or four feet after all the ribbons have been laid. No point in putting down screens, they will be way under water.
Hope submerging the ribbons doesn't effect the survival of the fry.
Also, lots of action when the feeder goes off, some pretty big swirls and splashes. The SMB are getting bigger, and maybe there are some HSB in there. 25 stocked in Oct of 2015, have never seen one since. (Up close.)
Lots of 2-3" narrow bodied fish pushing the feed around. I have a hard time imagining the FHM are still in there, but it's either them, or the GSH. I'll put a trap or two out, and see what I get. If they are GSH, I guess I'll use them for raccoon bait.

Last edited by SetterGuy; 03/23/18 08:21 AM.

9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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In my pond the narrow minnnows that push the feed around are the GSH. Excellent forage and the HSB and SMB hopefully will eventually keep them in check.

Awesome that you have more ribbons. It only takes 1 ribbon that has good viability of fry to give your pond more than enough YP for that year.

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Yellow perch ribbons receiving more water over them only slightly slows the development of eggs. More impact of egg hatching is increased silt in overlying water which when it settles on the ribbons tends to smother eggs and decrease optimum water circulation and oxygenation.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/23/18 10:31 AM.

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Thank you gents. I was thinking the GSH were the ones pushing the feed around. I saw FHM early in the summer last year, but they were getting harder to find. Lots of YP, HBG, SMB, and maybe some HSB to work on those FHM. I guess even the GSH probably go after FHM. If I've got enough YP to keep them coming, and I suspect I do, I'll leave the GSH alone.
Thanks again.
Jeff
I'm thinking the cedar branches will attract more ribbons, at the very least. Maybe even help the fry.

Pic of cedar branches next to a ribbon.

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IMG_0170.JPG
Last edited by SetterGuy; 03/23/18 12:42 PM.

9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
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