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#482335 11/07/17 08:24 PM
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KapHn8d Offline OP
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Would y'all master anglers and pondmeisters help a new guy understand how to best identify small sunfish like this? This is either a BG or RES, but it's small... so what identifying markings am I looking for to make a proper ID?

Sorry for the ignorance... I'm trying to learn! smile



Thank you!
Clayton


96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.
KapHn8d #482336 11/07/17 08:51 PM
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Color pattern outside the range of any Bluegill stock I am familiar with. The way the premaxilla is hooked up to anterior part of head looks like a Redear. Bluegill are tiny biters and fast suckers while Redear are slower and stronger biters reflecting differences in feeding strategies.


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KapHn8d #482337 11/07/17 08:58 PM
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and small nape (microlophus)


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KapHn8d #482338 11/07/17 09:12 PM
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Thank you, Jim... premaxilla and microlophus are new terms for me. I'll do some reading.

/c


96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.
KapHn8d #482341 11/07/17 10:55 PM
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Has a long pointed pectoral fin also.

RES fact sheet
An interesting tidbit from above link: "Lepomis microlophus is composed of two unnamed subspecies; one in Florida, Georgia, and southern Alabama, the other throughout the rest of its range. The two subspecies may no longer be distinguishable due to interbreeding caused by stocking programs (Page and Burr 1991)."
Explains to me why there are two different distinctive "looks" that RES can have.

More than you ever wanted to know about RES (and probably some things you shouldn't know)

Last edited by snrub; 11/07/17 11:01 PM.

John

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KapHn8d #482342 11/07/17 11:21 PM
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Here is a thread with a number of pictures of fingerling sunfish. Shorty has some really good pictures of fingerling RES and he has one in the latter part of this linked thread. Edit: oops! Shorty's picture lost to photobucket unless you have a patch for your browser.

fingerling sunfish pictures

Last edited by snrub; 11/07/17 11:25 PM.

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snrub #482345 11/08/17 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted By: snrub
Has a long pointed pectoral fin also.

RES fact sheet
An interesting tidbit from above link: "Lepomis microlophus is composed of two unnamed subspecies; one in Florida, Georgia, and southern Alabama, the other throughout the rest of its range. The two subspecies may no longer be distinguishable due to interbreeding caused by stocking programs (Page and Burr 1991)."
Explains to me why there are two different distinctive "looks" that RES can have.

More than you ever wanted to know about RES (and probably some things you shouldn't know)


I would like to see the work by Page and Burr (1991). I have collected and even bred RES from through out its natural range. No major differences jumped out other than one southern stock had males that turned nearly black while nesting. The contaminated stocks I think would be in the north.


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This is just my visual observation Jim and I'm not sure how to describe it correctly. But it seems to me the RES we mostly see in the north have a shape pretty close to a BG. While I see pictures of southern RES and they often have more of a protruded mouth. Does that make sense?

After seeing some really nice RES from guys in the south it is like I am asking myself "is there something wrong with my RES?" They don't look like that. Then I see pictures of Shorty's RES from Nebraska and they look very much like mine.

Just regional differences? Growth pattern differences? I'm no fish expert, Just what I see as a layman.


Last edited by snrub; 11/08/17 10:26 AM.

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KapHn8d #482371 11/08/17 02:17 PM
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Compare Similar Species


Lateral Scales

Bass, Rock 39-43
Bluegill 39-45
Pumpkinseed 38-43
Sunfish, Green 44-51
Sunfish, Longear 34-38
Sunfish, Orangespotted 36-41
Warmouth 36-40

Opercular Flap Color

Bass, Rock Solid dark
Bluegill Solid dark
Pumpkinseed Dark with light spot at tip
Sunfish, Green Dark with light margin
Sunfish, Longear Dark with light margin
Sunfish, Orangespotted Dark with light margin
Warmouth Dark with light margin

Gill Rakers

Bass, Rock 7-10, long and thin
Bluegill 13-16, moderately long
Pumpkinseed 9-12, short and thick
Sunfish, Green 11-14, long and thin
Sunfish, Longear 9-11, short and thick
Sunfish, Orangespotted 10-15, long and thin
Warmouth 9-12, moderately long

Pectoral Fin

Bass, Rock Short, rounded
Bluegill Long, pointed
Pumpkinseed Long, pointed
Sunfish, Green Moderately long, rounded
Sunfish, Longear Short, rounded or blunt point
Sunfish, Orangespotted Long, rounded or blunt point
Warmouth Moderately long, rounded

Pigment Pattern on Sides and Soft Dorsal Fin

Bass, Rock Sides brown solid color or with dark mottling or many indistinct spots; fin mottled and/or spotted
Bluegill Sides dark or silver blue or bluish-olive, solid color or with dark vertical bars, sometimes fine irregular dark blue spots; fin solid, often with large diffuse spot at base
Pumpkinseed Sides olive or yellow-olive, with many irregular yellow-orange spots or blotches and sometimes faint vertical bars; fin solid or faint spots/mottling
Sunfish, Green Sides yellow or blue-green, with solid color, dark mottling, faint light spots or faint dark bars; fin dusky, spotted or with dark blotch at base
Sunfish, Longear Sides dark bluish-olive, with solid color or light irregular spots or blotches/mottling; fin solid or faint spots/mottling
Sunfish, Orangespotted Sides blue or gray, with occasional irregular orange spots, faint diffuse vertical bars; fin solid or faint spots/mottling
Warmouth Sides yellow-brown or olive with dark mottling, faint spots or faint bars; fin mottled and/or spotted

Other Characteristics

Bass, Rock 5-7 anal spines; 9-11 anal rays
Bluegill Opercular flap slightly elongated in large adults
Pumpkinseed None
Sunfish, Green Rarely a few teeth on tongue
Sunfish, Longear Opercular flap greatly elongated in adults
Sunfish, Orangespotted Opercular flap often elongated in adults; large sensory pores above lip; 8-9 anal fin rays
Warmouth Well-developed supramaxillary bone; teeth on tongue

Similarity Index

Bass, Rock Moderately similar
Bluegill N/A
Pumpkinseed Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Sunfish, Green Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Sunfish, Longear Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Sunfish, Orangespotted Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Warmouth Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar


This may help -
















KapHn8d #482372 11/08/17 02:43 PM
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Pharyngeal teeth?

Redear not shown.


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KapHn8d #482393 11/09/17 09:11 AM
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This is extremely helpful info, fellas... thank you very much!

/clayton


96.85840735 percent clayton... the rest is just pi.

We become what we think about.
KapHn8d #482398 11/09/17 10:24 AM
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Yes on Pharyngeal teeth

and yes RES needs to be included .

















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