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Joined: Aug 2004
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Lunker
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Lunker
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I had made a post a while back about this in a larger post but I believe it got overlooked. Anyway I was wondering if anyone has read literature or had experience in the different feeding habits and metabolic differences between channel cats and blue cats at different water temperatures. I've read and experienced that blues seem much more active in cooler waters whereas channel cats really seem to be easiest to catch during the warmest times of the year. Is there any research out there explaining why blues are more aggressive during cooler water temps? I'll hang up and listen.
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Joined: Aug 2017
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I have raised both and CC x BC at same time. One pond even had CC and BC together. I did not angle mine as they where harvested by seine. CC seemed to eat pellets better when temperatures got below 70 F but BC grew faster when water as warmer. Hybrids grew better than both.
Pond with CC and BC together allowed for some really cool observations when snorkeling. What I saw there probably occurs in the wild as well.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Let's hear more about the snorkeling observations.
I've got a 15 acre pond that is about 44 years old. Carp, bullhead, some crappie and natural channel catfish reproduction. A little less than two years ago I began stocking BC. They appear to be doing well with some up around 4 lbs. About 6 wks ago I worked a deal with a local commercial trout farm to feed their cleanings (heads, spine, internal organs, etc) to my catfish. I was hoping to observe the difference between how well the CC and BC feed on such. Unfortunately right now my clarity is so poor I can't tell if the fish are BC or CC when feeding. It'll be interesting to watch over the next few years.
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In 1/10 acre ponds stocked with about 2,000 each of CC and BC (4" to 6") you could see from the pond bank you could see a single tightly organized school. From in the water while sitting on the bottom at a depth to 4' the same school had a totally different look where fish were segregated by species. CC formed a layer closer to the bottom while BC were more midwater. There was roughly a 1' gap between the two layers with NO fish giving the appearance of a layered cookie.
Another cool observation involved Northern Water Snakes working same schools.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Lunker
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Interesting indeed!! Any theories as to why that may have been?
Just a Pond Boss 'sponge'
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Joined: May 2009
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Lunker
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Lunker
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I hoping to make my pond under current construction a blue catfish pond if I can source them. I still do not have a plan for the forage fish yet, but will add FHM first after it fills.
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Lunker
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I think I'd go crappie and bluegill as forage base. Or any type of fish that tends to reproduce in great numbers and would otherwise be a risk of stunting.
What type of substrate do you have? I've got a silt/Clay substrate so carp cause turbitity issues that I don't like. But if I had sand or rock I think common carp would be a good idea. A great way to control vegetation and create a forage base.
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Joined: May 2009
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Pond will be a 1/4 acre clay bowl. It seems like a sport fish like crappie might work, and I don't have these in my other two 1 acre ponds. The new pond may go 1/3 acre depending on how patient I am (digging myself with smaller equipment). Right now, I am dealing with water coming in between two clay layers which is challenging even though I have a good drain much lower down. And we are experiencing a pretty good drought right now!
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Do you have access to a pond with an over population of fish? I'm thinking an 'artificial' forage. Such as trapping or catching fish somewhere else, cutting them, and feeding them to the cats. I have the good fortune of having a commercial trout farm up the road. Feeding about 150-200 cut up trout per week seems to be working very well.
Just a Pond Boss 'sponge'
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Lunker
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Lunker
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I do not plan to feed the fish, but I am quite patient so am willing to wait until the pond is packed with forage. I also plan to stock the BC light and hope for reproduction (in sunken plastic drums.
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Lunker
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Lunker
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I'll be following yours closely. When you get it started make sure to start a separate thread. There just isn't much info on here about blue cats. I have a feeling they're going to become more popular over time.
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Joined: May 2009
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Lunker
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Lunker
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My first challenge will be finding some. Well, my very first challenge will be spending enough time on the small dozer to finish the pond:)
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Joined: Aug 2017
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Joined: Aug 2017
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My first challenge will be finding some. Well, my very first challenge will be spending enough time on the small dozer to finish the pond:) A producer near me has a strain of BC they have been breeding for some time.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Joined: Aug 2017
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Joined: Aug 2017
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I had made a post a while back about this in a larger post but I believe it got overlooked. Anyway I was wondering if anyone has read literature or had experience in the different feeding habits and metabolic differences between channel cats and blue cats at different water temperatures. I've read and experienced that blues seem much more active in cooler waters whereas channel cats really seem to be easiest to catch during the warmest times of the year. Is there any research out there explaining why blues are more aggressive during cooler water temps? I'll hang up and listen. I do not think BC's are more aggressive when water is cooler. They do feed differently when at the surface. When they are after floating pellets the BC's stay tighter as they feed and do not come into shallow water as readily. The "whiskers" on BC's also look smaller relative to splash they make when feeding. My observations stopped once the BC's reach about 5-lbs.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Lunker
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Osage Cstfishery?
That's the genetics I have in my pond. Was a bit worried they may not do well in ponds but so far so good.
Just a Pond Boss 'sponge'
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Joined: Aug 2017
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Osage Cstfishery?
That's the genetics I have in my pond. Was a bit worried they may not do well in ponds but so far so good. Yes. They are pond bred over a few generations at least.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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We can find info on BC it depends on what you want. Finding solid info on the metabolic rate of BC vs CC will be not so easy. I will look. What is the exact context of the question ? BC are not native to ponds/still water and CC are more so. They have adapted over eons to their primary environment. BC are more riverine so they tend to eat more pelagic fish first like shads , sand bass ,etc. Lots at Fishbase - take a look. BC -http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?ID=3019&AT=blue+catfish Biology Inhabits deep water of impoundments and main channels and backwaters of medium to large rivers, over mud, sand and gravel (Ref. 5723). Feeds on small aquatic invertebrates, clams and fishes (Ref. 93252). Prefers clear, strongly flowing water. Marketed fresh and frozen. Eaten steamed, fried, broiled, microwaved and baked (Ref. 9988). Distribution North America: USA (Mobile and Mississippi basins; and Texas coastal drainages between Mississippi and Río Grande basins) and Mexico (Río Bravo (Grande) and Soto La Marina basins). CC - http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?ID=290&AT=channel+catfishDistribution North America: Central drainages of the United States to southern Canada and northern Mexico. Biology Adults inhabit rivers and streams and prefer clean, well oxygenated water (Ref. 9988), but also in ponds and reservoirs (Ref. 10294, 44091). They feed primarily on small fish, crustaceans (e.g. crayfish), clams and snails; also feed on aquatic insects and small mammals (Ref. 9669, 10294, 44091). Marketed fresh, smoked and frozen; eaten steamed, fried, broiled, boiled, microwaved and baked (Ref. 9988). Albino form common in the aquarium trade (Ref. 13371).
Last edited by ewest; 09/16/17 12:41 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2017
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Only about a dozen papers treat BC that come up in Google Scholar. I am unable to find original source I had for interspecies comparison of feed activity as that may have been a personal communication. My efforts with BC, CC and F1 hybrid CC(female) X BC(male) were back in the 1990's, so not fresh. Yet, I am confident about relative feeding activities as a function of temperature as we had several ponds running in parallel giving similar pattern. Comparison of Culture Traits of Channel Catfish, Ictalurus punctatus, and Blue Catfish I. furcatus http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J028v03n03_04Link to below down. Graham, K., 1999. A review of the biology and management of blue catfish. In Catfish 2000: proceedings of the international ictalurid symposium. American Fisheries Society, Symposium (Vol. 24, pp. 37-49).
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Jim, Would BCxCC and / or pure BC feed on pellets all winter if not iced up?
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Try this
A Comparison of Second-Year Growth of Blue Catfish and Channel Catfish in Kentucky JAMES H. TIDWELL AND STEVEN D. MIMS Community Research Service Aquaculture Research Center Kentucky State University Frankfort, Kentucky 40601. USA Abstract.—Second-year growths of blue catfish (Ictalurus furcatus) and channel catfish (/. punctatus) were compared in north-central Kentucky. Percent weight gain was significantly higher (P < 0.05) for blue catfish than for channel catfish. There were no significant differences (P > 0.05) in feed conversion or survival. Blue catfish showed more consistent growth and were easier to seine than were channel catfish. Blue catfish should be evaluated further in temperate regions. Several attributes may make the blue catfish (Ictalurus furcatus) an attractive alternative to channel catfish (/. punctatus) for commercial culture as food fish in certain regions of the country. Optimum growing temperature for blue catfish is reported to be about 24°C, compared to 30°C for channel catfish (Collins 1988). Such moderate temperature requirements could extend the growing season of blue catfish in cooler regions of the USA (Huner 1988). Also, blue catfish have a higher dress-out percentage and are easier to seine than channel catfish (Chappell 1979). The aggressive nature of the blue catfish might be highly desirable in areas with large fee-fishing markets (such as Kentucky). The blue catfish may be inferior to the channel catfish as a cultured species due to slower growth at sizes less than 1 Ib and less efficient feed conversion (Huner and Dupree 1984). Several producers, however, have reported that blue catfish grow faster than channel catfish in the first year (Collins 1988). Chappell (1979) indicated that growth of the two species is similar in the first 2 years and that channel catfish perform slightly better. Dunham (1979) found that third-year blue catfish and channel catfish grew at the same rate during the winter. However, these studies were conducted in the Deep South (Alabama). Production of the two species has not been compared in cooler climates, such as Kentucky. The objective of this study was to compargrowth and feed conversion in blue catfish and channel catfish during the second growing season (fingerling to harvest size) in north-central Kentucky. On 4 May 1987, blue catfish and channel catfish were stocked at a density of 6,175 fish/hectare into triplicate 0.04-hectare earthen ponds (six ponds total; Table 1). Ponds were about 1.5 m deep and supplied with water from a reservoir filled by runoff; water levels were maintained by periodic additions to replace evaporation. Water temperature and dissolved oxygen (DO; model 54A oxygen meter, Yellow Springs Instruments Co.) were monitored twice daily at a depth of 0.5 m. Ponds were aerated if DO levels were predicted to reach 3.0 mg/L or less during the night. Fish were fed in midafternoon with a commercial floating feed (32% crude protein) at 3% of body weight daily. Feed amounts were adjusted every 2 weeks based upon an assumed feed conversion (amount fed/ weight gain) of 1.5. Periodic fish samples were not taken because blue catfish do not tolerate handling and harvest well (Collins 1988), especially at high temperatures, and sampling causes channel catfish to stop feeding (Lovell 1989). Fish were harvested on 9 October 1987 (culture period, 156 d). All fish were counted and total harvest weights were recorded for each pond. Student's /-tests (P = 0.05) were used for twomean comparisons of stocking weight, harvest weight, percent weight gain, weight of feed offered, feed conversion, and percent survival (Dowdy and Wearden 1983). Percentage data were transformed (arcsine) before analysis (Steel and Torrie 1980). Morning DO averaged 6.7 mg/L, and afternoon DO 8.2 mg/L. Average monthly afternoon water temperatures ranged from a high of 26°C in July to a low of 20PC in October. The overall mean for the culture period was 24°C, the temperature reported to be optimum for blue catfish (Collins 1988). There was a significant difference (P < 0.05) in stocking weight for the two species (Table 1), but no significant difference (P > 0.05) in harvest weight, feed conversion, or survival. Survival was low (75%) in one channel catfish replicate due to TABLE 1.—Performance of blue catfish and channel catfish cultured for 156 d during second-year growth. Values are means (SEs) for three replicate ponds. An asterisk indicates that the two means within a column are significantly different (Student's /-test, P < 0.05). Species Blue catfish Channel catfish Stocking weight (g) 85.8 (0.3)* 98.8 (3.2) Harvest weight (g) 594.6 (5.2) 577.5(55.5) Weight gain8 (%) 593.3 (4.7)* 485.8 (74.3) Feed conversion6 1.3(0.1) 1.7(0.5) Survival (%) 99.3(1.2) 89.7(13.5) a Percent increase from stocking to harvest. b Feed conversion = amount fed/weight gain of fish. an infestation of Ambiphrya sp. (which explains the large SE for survival in Table 1). The elevated feed conversion for channel catfish (1.7) may have resulted from overfeeding in this pond. Feed conversion for blue catfish (1.3) was somewhat better than the 1.5 reported by Chappell (1979). Percent weight gain was significantly greater for blue catfish than for channel catfish (P < 0.05). Blue catfish averaged a 593.3% gain, whereas channel catfish averaged 485.8%. Chappell (1979) reported larger weight gains, but stocked smaller fingerlings and cultured fish for 208 d. Growth of blue catfish in replicate ponds was consistent compared to that of channel catfish, as demonstrated by the low SEs for ponds containing blue catfish (Table 1). Blue catfish were also more easily seined, as observed by Chappell (1979). The three ponds of blue catfish in this study yielded 100%, 100%, and 99% of the fish on the first seine haul. Chappell (1979) found that blue catfish and channel catfish demonstrated similar second-year growth in Alabama and that channel catfish were slightly larger at harvest. Our study in Kentucky found significantly faster second-year growth of blue catfish. The overall mean temperature during the study period (24°C) was the reported optimum for blue catfish (Collins 1988). Chappell (1979) did not report mean water temperatures for comparison, but did remark that water temperatures were unusually high at the July sampling, suggesting that temperatures were closer to the optimum for channel catfish. The blue catfish warrants further examination as a cultured species, especially in regions with temperate climates, large pay markets, and singleseason production systems, for which size consistency is important. Acknowledgments.—We thank Julia Clark, Keith Crabtree, Richard Knaub, Eddie Reed, Jr., Karla Richardson, and Danny Yancey for assistance. This investigation was supported by a grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, Cooperative State Research Service, to Kentucky State University under agreement KYX-1283000009. References Chappell, J. A. 1979. An evaluation of twelve genetic groups of catfish for suitability in commercial production. Doctoral dissertation. Auburn University,
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Jim, Would BCxCC and / or pure BC feed on pellets all winter if not iced up? In southern Illinois the stocks I had effectively stopped feeding when temperature dropped below 50 F. By that I mean they quit coming to surface.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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-- Optimum growing temperature for blue catfish is reported to be about 24°C, compared to 30°C for channel catfish (Collins 1988). --
Excellent, this is the type of info I was interested in ewest. As noted in my other thread I have been feeding about 100-120 lbs of trout cleanings to my catfish per week. When feeding in the evenings I seemed to notice the channel cats dominating the feeding. Lately I've switched to feeding via light on my dock after dark. It appears to me the blues may be more involved when I feed via light at night. Not sure why that would be. And it may very well be that I'm mis identifying the fish species. Or it could be the cooling water temps.
Anyway, I had read several articles about fishing for blues in the winter time. So I wondered if there was a metabolic difference in the two impacted by temperature. From the articles I've read it sounds more like the winter fishing success for blues is due to spontaneous winter shad die offs that the blues capitalize on. I also found that flatheads slow their feeding down to nearly being non existent in the winter time. So I have come across a few interesting tid bits. In general I was wondering how this would impact the feeding behavior of my catfishery going into winter and if there were any observations I should be looking for as the water cools down. IF I do notice any differences I will report them here.
PS I have noticed much better success rod and reeling blues before water temps warm up in the summer. Where as I was catching 2 to 1 blues to channels in May and partway into June, I have caught 10 to 1 channels to blues over the summer months.
Just a Pond Boss 'sponge'
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I would go back to Collins 1988 and scrutinize to make certain findings reported are relevant to interest in a mixed species pond setup.
Aquaculture Cooperative Research / Extension Lincoln University of Missouri
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Stumbled across this while searching for Collins article. I've been interested in the subject of blue catfish and the type of feed I should be feeding....
Abstract Blue catfish, Ictalurus furcatus, juveniles (54 g) were stocked into 0.04-ha ponds at a density of 9,880/ha and fed one of four diets containing 32% or 38% protein and 4% or 8% fish meal. After 168 days, there were no significant differences (P > 0.05) in body weights, survival, weight gains, or other production variables. There was a significant difference (P ≤ 0.05) in feed conversion ratios (FCR), with the FCR for fish fed the 38% protein diet with 8% fish meal being higher than for fish fed other diets. During July and August, total ammonia-nitrogen and nitrite-nitrogen concentrations were also significantly higher (P ≤ 0.05) in ponds in which fish were fed the 38% protein diet with 8% fish meal. These data indicate that increased protein and/or fish meal does not increase weight gain in blue caash and that blue catlish can be fed a diet with 32% protein and 4% fish meal when stocked at density < 10,000/ha.
Just a Pond Boss 'sponge'
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BG sex?
by tim k - 05/12/24 07:01 AM
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