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#464788 02/23/17 07:26 AM
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We have had a mild winter and it is 60 degree today in Michigan, I am seeing a lot of green algea in the pond, any ideas what to do first thing this spring once all the ice is gone?? I have seen this in August but not in the spring, it has me a bit worried I am going to be over run by the green stuff once the ice is all gone. Comments?

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Funky #464879 02/23/17 05:39 PM
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I'm about as green on pond management as they come, but I'll try to help you find your way. The first thing I would suggest is find someone who can help you positively ID what type it is and then go from there.



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I always have the same issue regardless of whether it is a mild or harsh winter. I wonder if a using pond dye in early spring would suppress this. I have a lot of pond flow through so that by the time bluegill get into active feeding the water would likely lose a lot of it's color.


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Funky #464883 02/23/17 07:37 PM
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If it's FA mats you're seeing, it's a good time to rake it out and remove some biomass. It won't start actively growing much until the water warms a bit more, so this would give you a chance to remove some before it takes off. I use a lake rake (there are several manufacturers, or you can build one, check the archives) and find it somewhat therapeutic..


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Funky #464884 02/23/17 07:47 PM
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There are many kinds of algae, some thrive in cold water, some in warm. I've had thick algae in the dead of winter, under the ice. I usually add dye in the fall, and I think it helps, but does not eliminate growth.


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sprkplug #464886 02/23/17 07:55 PM
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Ditto what sprkplug said. There are different types of filamentous algae that thrive in different water temperatures. The algae is there because there are enough nutrients and light for it to grow. Once underwater plants start growing and the water temp warms up, it should diminish.

But the suggestion of raking it out is a good one, just make sure to dispose of it away from the pond, so when it decomposes any nutrients can't wash back into the pond.

The dye will help limit light penetration during the winter.


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Funky #464923 02/24/17 08:12 AM
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thanks for all the comments, I am looking forward to spring and see how this all turns out. Sounds like I might have a bit of a problem that will reappear each spring, but if than I should be ready for it, plus I need to add some friendly plants to the pond as it is only three years old and has few so far. Each year is a learning event for us, but we love it and are having fun!


half-acre pond, LMB, HBG, BG, GSH and CC ....goal is to
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Funky #464946 02/24/17 12:15 PM
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Funky, I think in time you will go evolve a bit back and forth on your feelings about FA. When my pond was new, I raked furiously and the goal was total annihilation of FA. Then my back told me enough was enough and I considered chemical control. Then one year I did tilapia and loved every minute of it. They controlled the bulk of it, I had a thin rim on the shore line where the TP must not have been comfortable coming in to eat it. When it would get a bit thick I'd rake for 'aesthetics' but I soon found that it was a mistake to be FA free. When I raked I found that the FA on the edge was the preferred home for all kinds of cool critters, water bugs, tadpoles, fish fry, frogs, turtles, and my ghost shrimp. I was taking away their habitat and their refuge.

my goal now is to keep some FA on the edges at all times. It can be stringy, nasty and not fun to fish in but right now it is a haven for many living things.

I don't know where in MI you are but we are fortunate enough to be allowed to have TP in our ponds. I would seek some out, they are a cool species to watch and they give back to the pond in return.

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I'm going through this as well and can't wait until the last of April, so I can get some Tilapia. Last night I was reading a thread several years old about a fellow battling FA with liquid cutrine and he had success at first but he was having to reapply every 6 weeks or so. I'm thinking for myself I'd like to stay away from chemicals if possible. One reason is I figure with all the Farm Ag runoff that fills my tank, I figure I have a healthy dose of fertilizer. In that same thread, there was a fellow recommending corn meal in 50lb bags to grow good bacteria. I hope I worded that right. Anyways it's suppose to help as well, but again I'm going to try Tilapia.



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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek


I don't know where in MI you are but we are fortunate enough to be allowed to have TP in our ponds. I would seek some out, they are a cool species to watch and they give back to the pond in return.


Canyon-
I would love to be able to trial some TP on my FA here in Iowa. Unfortunately, our DNR says its a no go. I even tried to get one of the universities to begin some research on TP for FA control in northern ponds, but again found no takers. The Iowa DNR seems extremely leery of unleashing a (potentially) invasive species. So, as long as my back will take it, I'll keep on raking, with a little cutrine spot treatment here and there, and some pond dye for good measure..


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canyoncreek,i am on the east side of Michigan, Midland, and wonder where you get your TP.
I have found over the past two years that yes it is a good idea to leave some algae alone as it does make a good home for some small guys.


half-acre pond, LMB, HBG, BG, GSH and CC ....goal is to
have fun fishing. And I subscribe!
Funky #469477 04/13/17 02:19 PM
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Can anyone tell me where I can acquire some TP in Michigan? Thanks!


half-acre pond, LMB, HBG, BG, GSH and CC ....goal is to
have fun fishing. And I subscribe!
Funky #469482 04/13/17 03:04 PM
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Funky,
I found a local aquaponics outfit that would sell small TP, fry, or for big bucks, some breeding pairs. That was too pricey for me so I ended up scouring Craigslist and found another aquaponics enthusiast who had some for me growing in his basement. The next spring he lost interest in aquaponics and moved to a smaller house to he couldn't supply me anymore. Check CL.

Also you can buy on ebay. You want blue TP.

I hope someday a fish hauler from a nearby state will navigate the permit process and be able to truck them in to SW and SE MI.

They are allowed in MI (or I should say they are not on the 'not allowed' list) but things get a little murky if your pond has an inlet or outlet to existing waterways which mine does not.

Funky #469483 04/13/17 03:06 PM
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oh..and there were several active PB members from SE MI who have not checked in in several years. At least one of them I recall had tilapia in his pond. If any other SE MI folks are seeing this maybe you can jump in and help. I miss hearing from CoachBrian and others who helped me a lot when I started out from scratch.

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Thanks for the info, I will look on ebay and see what is out there, I too wish one of our suppliers in the state would carry TP and solve some of our algae problems


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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
Funky,
I found a local aquaponics outfit that would sell small TP, fry, or for big bucks, some breeding pairs. That was too pricey for me so I ended up scouring Craigslist and found another aquaponics enthusiast who had some for me growing in his basement. The next spring he lost interest in aquaponics and moved to a smaller house to he couldn't supply me anymore. Check CL.

Also you can buy on ebay. You want blue TP.

I hope someday a fish hauler from a nearby state will navigate the permit process and be able to truck them in to SW and SE MI.

They are allowed in MI (or I should say they are not on the 'not allowed' list) but things get a little murky if your pond has an inlet or outlet to existing waterways which mine does not.



Canyoncreek, wildlife laws are "restrictive", meaning if anything is not specifically allowed or "legal", it is illegal. If Tilapia are not on an approved species list, or allowed as a "restricted" species, it's not allowed....it's not a grey area.

All that said, Tilapia ARE on the Aquaculture facility "Approved Species" list. Also, Michigan says an Aquaculture permit is not required for private waters and private use.

MI Aquaculture Permit Application

MDARD info page on permits


Michigan Wildlife laws may contradict, or be more restrictive on, the Agricultural laws. Similar to Illinois Gun Laws....what may be legal by Illinois State law, may be illegal by Illinois wildlife codes.



Rainman #469541 04/14/17 08:31 AM
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I've been negotiating the permitting and stocking process in Michigan.

They have a different definition of "private waters" than you might think. IF a pond has a permanent inflow or outflow, even if a pond will overflow over a field to a culvert that leads to a ditch that leads to a stream or lake, then the pond is NOT considered "private waters" and they will NOT allow stocking Tilapia.....

Those waters are considered "waters of the state" and you have to have an approved stocking permit before ANY fish can be legally stocked in the pond. That permit has to be on-site when the fish stocking takes place, and if it isn't, both the pond owner and the fish stocker can be in the same pot of hot water.


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Funky #469554 04/14/17 10:02 AM
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esshup, that is a tough definition to create and enforce (tough on us MI pond owners). IF the definition of private is that there is no way water can get to a local stream or lake then if you parse the words finely enough all ponds would be public. My pond doesn't overflow into a ditch, river, stream or pond, but doesn't all water eventually have a possibility of flowing over land and find another puddle which can then overflow to the next stream etc? Who gets to define how close that next stream or puddle is to mine to call it an 'oulet'?

Rainman, I've talked with the MI DEQ/DNR and asked what do I do about stocking fish that are not on the approved aquaculture list and not on the forbidden 'invasives' list. They really didn't have an idea but didn't feel like they had to worry about it as they didn't think I would be able to figure out a way to get them trucked in or shipped in. I was asking about hybrids that weren't on either list but yet could be ordered online or transported by private parties. I've heard rumors that if they found HSB in my pond I would have to nuke my pond. But I did get them to admit that since my pond has no inlet or outlet it is out of their jurisdiction so I can do what I want with it (outside of put the invasives form that list in)

I wish they would make the process less grey and work with fish haulers who want to work within the rules.

For TP specifically, the real question is how can they be a threat to local streams and lakes?

Funky #469556 04/14/17 10:16 AM
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Funky, The link below is a big PDF file of fish stockers in MI (some are fee fishing locations only) The one in Kent County is not far from me but has shut down long ago so some of the data on this PDF may be outdated.

The easy way to find things is open this PDF, hit Control-F for search and type tilapia. it will jump to the first tilapia, then hit enter again and it will jump down to the next one etc.

I found several, one is in Fowlerville which may not be far from you. Also Detroit, Walled Lake, etc.

MI stocking options

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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
esshup, that is a tough definition to create and enforce (tough on us MI pond owners). IF the definition of private is that there is no way water can get to a local stream or lake then if you parse the words finely enough all ponds would be public. My pond doesn't overflow into a ditch, river, stream or pond, but doesn't all water eventually have a possibility of flowing over land and find another puddle which can then overflow to the next stream etc? Who gets to define how close that next stream or puddle is to mine to call it an 'oulet'?

Rainman, I've talked with the MI DEQ/DNR and asked what do I do about stocking fish that are not on the approved aquaculture list and not on the forbidden 'invasives' list. They really didn't have an idea but didn't feel like they had to worry about it as they didn't think I would be able to figure out a way to get them trucked in or shipped in. I was asking about hybrids that weren't on either list but yet could be ordered online or transported by private parties. I've heard rumors that if they found HSB in my pond I would have to nuke my pond. But I did get them to admit that since my pond has no inlet or outlet it is out of their jurisdiction so I can do what I want with it (outside of put the invasives form that list in)

I wish they would make the process less grey and work with fish haulers who want to work within the rules.

For TP specifically, the real question is how can they be a threat to local streams and lakes?


Canyon, any person that ships, arranges to be shipped or causes to be shipped, any species to MI (or anywhere) that is not approved in MI is in violation of the Lacey Act of 1900, so is the person ordering the species.....you can also theoretically have heroine shipped into MI...still ain't legal for the shipper, or buyer....The Lacey Act says all Local, State, Federal, and Foreign laws must be followed in any interstate wildlife commerce/transportation....Any value over $350 makes any violation of the Lacey Act, a Felony....The USF&W values Tilapia at $14 per fish, so only 25 fish will make you a Felon....and about $25,000 poorer.

If you qualify for, and can get an Aquaculture permit, you are also allowed to import your stock as long as the health requirements are being met for some species...Tilapia are on the approved species list in the MI Aquaculture permit application...

Last edited by Rainman; 04/15/17 09:45 AM.


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For anyone in Michigan that is looking for some Talapia, I found a place in Grant, MI. Grant is just a bit north of Grand Rapids. It is Atwood's Aquaponics, they are also on facebook. I was quoted $3 per pound, and they have different sizes, if you are interested call at : 1-231-245-0501. This is about two hours from me so I need to set up a way to bring them home safely. Hope this helps someone out there.


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Thanks for the update Funky, so good to know there are places that can still help us out. Do they have Sat hours? Do they have Blue tilapia or other types?

Did the other aquaponics places closer to you on that database I sent you not have any to sell to you?


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they do have Saturday hours, not sure about the rest, but they are happy to answer calls and they are on facebook


half-acre pond, LMB, HBG, BG, GSH and CC ....goal is to
have fun fishing. And I subscribe!

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