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Hey everybody. New here. I just finished building my house on a piece of property I purchased with a 1/2 acre pond. So much time was devoted to the house the past year. Now it is time to turn my attention to the pond. Like I said it is 1/2 acre watershed pond fed by two inactive creeks and has mostly a sandy bottom. I was told it is around 8 feet deep (I plan to verify). It seems to hold water fairly well for a watershed pond in Texas. I don't believe it has ever been stocked, however there are a few (maybe 20) BG that will come up for feed. My goal is to make it both a LMB pond for myself and a fun catch-all-day pond for my kids (6 years, 3 years and 1 year) for years to come. I am looking for thoughts on who to get the fish from (I hear good things about Overton even though they are a little far) and what fish you would put in. I am thinking 200 BG and 50 RES for the kids/forage and 50 LMB for myself along with 5-7 lbs of FHM. Does that sound about right? Also, do you guys recommend crawfish? If so, should I add them with the fish or wait 6 months or so? Last question, I have a pallet of bricks left over from building the house. Would this be good to add in the pond (especially for the crawfish)? If so, do I let the kids scatter them out or would it be best to dump them all in one place? Shallow or deep portion of the pond?


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I don't recommend bass in less than about 1.5 acres in your area. Those guys eat everything that moves and soon run out of groceries. Then you wind up with runt bass that will still spawn and keep on spawning.

My favorite recipe for a pond your size is Hybrid Bluegills and Hybrid Stripers. Get a feeder, use about 40% protein pellets and watch them grow. As you catch the hybrids, some of them will die. That's OK, even bass in the summer often die when caught. When the water temp gets high in the summer, most of us the area quit fishing. Restock a small amount of the stripers when needed and you will have fun forever.

But, if you have to have bass, stock about 300 small bluegills and 30 small redears in the Spring. Wait a year and add about a dozen bass.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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Dave, thanks for the input. Everywhere I have read though has said that Hybrid Stripers need deeper water and my pond is anything but deep. Is that only if you don't feed them?


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LMB will survive, reproduce, and efficiently control BG in 1/2 acre. I see that occur many times in northern ponds and it will work anywhere in the US with management. I commonly see it successful for your intended goals. You won't have a lot of LMB and they may not get much bigger than 2-3 lbs with maybe the rare 4 pounder depending on how you harvest/manage the fish.

Your main 1st project is to learn what sizes and approximate numbers of BG that are present. This will determine what sizes of bass need to be stocked to survive the transplant. How are you sampling the bluegill? Only by observation? If yes go to WalMart and get a small pack of No.8 aberdeen thin wire hooks, a slender bobber. Buy no weights. The weight of the bobber and baited hook is enough to cast 20-30 ft. IF not you are doing something wrong. Get a small box of worms. Fish the baited hook with a piece of 1"-1.5 worm at various depths of 2 to 5 ft below the bobber within 10-20 ft from shore. HINT: if you all sit down while fishing, your catch success greatly improves. Measure every fish you catch and get some pictures of them. And keep track oh how many you catch in 1-2 hrs of angling. As a rule you should catch at least 20-30 per hour when sunfish are common/abundant. There will be a debate as to weather you toss or return the fish. I reserve my opinion until I see some catch information.

Your 2nd project is to verify with 1-3 pictures posted here of your "BG". We want to be sure you have BG and not some other sunfish.
My experience is if you are seeing a few(20) BG you likely have 100's that you are not seeing. If you have only a few BG then it is possible you have a predator/s thinning their numbers. This predator could eat small fingerling bass.

Your 3rd main project is to locate 7"-10" bass as stockers. Overton is a very good fish farm. Try to use them. They do have 6"-8" and 8"-10 bass. These are what I would use for stocking a pond with an EXISTING UNKNOWN fishery. IMO you have too many unknowns to stock small bass(<5"). He does have pellet trained bass in these larger sizes. This type of bass at 15-25 per 1/2 ac when fed pellets will perform well beyond average bass. These 20 bass should be a good start to 'balance out' a small existing sunfish pond to send it on a path of good kids fishing pond. If after 2 years sunfish are not getting larger and you are not seeing small 4"-6" bass you can always make more adjustments which may involve adding more 8" bass.
https://www.overtonfisheries.com/Stocker-Fish/Fish-Pricing-and-Availability


Around 16-25 of these 7"-10" bass will suffice for the first stocking. You want something big enough to right away start eating small 2.5"-3" bluegill and be big enough the most average pond predator will not eat all your newly stocked bass.

IMO your 4th project before you stock any bass is to remove at least 2-3 BG/sunfish for every bass you stock. Your existing sunfish/BG will reproduce and should provide ample panfish for future angling.

At this point in time and with many unknowns I would not add any other fish until you know your existing fishery conditions. Then with more information the stocking plan can be adjusted.

Note - Overton does have larger sizes of BG and Redear Sunfish which may be a good option for you. Supplimental stocking of new larger sized fish have MUCH better survival rates when added to existing pond than small fish. IMO work with your existing fishery to wisely build on your current fish base, rather than trying to start over with a "standard" stocking plan of all small fish for a new type of pond.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/08/17 09:41 AM.

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Ok. Thanks for the tips BC. I have fished for the BG quite a bit as well as my neighbor who shares the pond with me. We have never caught any bigger than 2 or 3 inches and have never caught or seen evidence of any predator fish. I would like to do something before it gets ridiculously hot here in Texas (which is soon). I was thinking of holding off on LMB or HSB and just stocking maybe 300 BG, 50 RES and 5# FHM this Spring. Then this fall I was thinking of getting 20 or so LMB and HSB as big as I can afford from Overton. Either 8"-10" or 10"-12". Would that help me overcome any of the unknowns? What are your thoughts on LMB and HSB combination? What is the right ratio?


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Are you planning on feeding the fish pellets? Lets go through one question at a time. If it were my small pond I would renovate and start over with the best fish combination. But this is likely not a viable option in your mind.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/08/17 09:58 AM.

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I am not new to fishing, just new to pond owning and managing one. So, any advice is welcome even if you think I am completely wrong, which I may be.


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I can if needed. I probably don't have the funds to buy a feeder right now (just built a house) but come this Fall I might have a little saved up for one or it would make a great Christmas present for dad.


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The is hand feeding the fish 3-5 times a week an option?


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Oh yes. The pond is 50 feet from my front door.


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This picture was taken from my front porch. Sorry not much detail about the pond. My wife was focused on something else.

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Okay. What are you using to catch 2" BG? Is this actual measured length? Dominate presence of small 2"-3" BG mean you primarily need predators 7"-10" to right away begin eating those fish as food. At this point your pond from you info you pond is over crowded with stunted BG. They could be spawning at 3" long. If they are real crowed the overcrowding could be now limiting survival and recruitment of BG assuming they are BG.
LMB could have been originally present but too many famished BG prevented successful bass spawns. Then old bass died BG are predominant overcrowded fish.
I stand by my advice. Verify plan with Todd Overton. Stock these pellet trained larger bass as soon as you can work out a time with Overton. They will eat fish and pellets and grow fast. Stock 16-35 of them. Higher toward 35 if you want faster results and then plan on thinning a few(6-10) later when they are spawning. Up to 50% of them can be HSB. Angler fish mortality during the next 2 yrs would likely account for the needed thinning.

ASAP start removing small sunfish. Numbers will depend on how many you can catch per hour. My 1st guess is minimum 200. I would use traps and angling. When sunfish are abundant I can catch 50-60/hr with a small hook and worm.

Hand feeding the fish with food from Overton will get the remaining sunfish growing. Bass will immediately start removing sunfish. We have to remember the goal - kids fishing not trophies.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/08/17 10:23 AM.

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Ok. Thanks BC. I will try to catch some of the BG in the next few days and post some pictures and quantities here. So you are saying I need to skip my first step of stocking anymore BG and just go straight to 16 to 35 7"-10" LMB and HSB right away? I just wasn't seeing the numbers of BG (or whatever they are) that I thought would support predators right now. But like you said if you are seeing 20 there are probably 10X that many not showing up on the surface. Would you add anything else with the LMB and HSB like FHM? Sorry for so many questions. I am just anxious to get something going. I don't really care what as long as I know it is in the right direction.


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No FHM. They are for new ponds and will last only several days with larger bass present. LMB will usually eat FHM first then sunfish. YOU WANT immediate sunfish reduction, not your bass eating easy snack FHM.

If it is remotely possible the pond does not have enough sunfish to feed 30 bass then they can eat pellets to continue good growth. Unless I am crazy after 50 yrs of doing this, your larger7"-10" stocker bass will be 14"-17" by November of 2017. Keep them well fed. They as larger bass will very likely spawn for you next month thus their youngsters will control the 2017 sunfish offspring which there should be lots of them once you start feeding and thinning the sunfish. Check with Overton about this concept for verification and PROPER PELLET SIZES, they will likely suggest two sizes of pellets; one for sunfish and one for bass. Overtons have great fish food.

If you have enough money you can buy a some good quality larger BG or RES at 4"-6" long (maybe 30-50). These will provide good genetic brood stock to the pond and should spawn this summer. First lets see what sunfish are now in the pond. Watch for suttle differences in their appearance which can indicate species or hybrids. Get pics of differences.

Without much predator activity and no feeding of sunfish most of your sunfish will stay deeper and out of sight. What is your water clarity?. HOw deep can you see a white coffee cup in the water??? Measure it,,, don't guess.

Focus on catching and removing sunfish. You should be able to at minimum catch 30/hr. If yes get them all out! When your bass arrive,,, you can cut the tails off the sunfish you continue to catch and return them as easy bass-HSB food. Your bass will become tame and learn to 'love' you and in 2-3 yrs a few will grow to those 4 lb sizes if you follow my plan closely.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/08/17 11:15 AM.

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Ok. Thanks. I'll have to get back to you on the water clarity once I check. I know it is not great. It is a watershed pond and the hills around us have red rock and sand. So, the pond stays a redish brown color. I just sent Todd Overton a lengthy email with background info, everything I have told you and some of your thoughts. I will see what he suggests. Thanks again. It is great having access to guys that have done this for years like yourself. Hopefully I can return the favor to some of the young guys in a few years.


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Just keep us updated and advised about your pond project and your experiences on this thread and they will be documented and will definitely help other pond owners be better pond managers.

Others with experience with adjusting an overpopulated sunfish pond are welcome to provide advice. Second and 3rd opinions are good to have. It will be interesting to see what Overton Fish Farm suggests. They are not usually with the philosophy of just selling standard amounts of fish. They should take the time to evaluate and suggest some fish to improve your overpopulated 1/2 ac sunfish problem.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/08/17 07:57 PM.

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You have verified that you pond is truly 1/2 acre?. Try this pond measuring tool from Google.
http://acme.com/planimeter/

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/08/17 12:15 PM.

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I used this app called Distance Measure. It gives me an area of 21,607 sq ft. That converted is 0.496 acres. The image in this app is from a year or so ago when the pond was low. So, I would say it fluctuates between just under 0.5 acres to a little over 0.5 acres. It is pretty full right now but will go down a few feet in the summer.

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I just verified this using the website you provided. It was even lower on the website and came in at 0.43 acres but I could make out the high water line and measured that and it came in at 0.55 acres. So it fluctuates right around 0.5 acres.


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At 0.5 acre IMO my numbers of fish to help your pond are basically correct. We will eagerly wait to see what the fish selling professionals propose. Then we can re-evaluate the stocking improvement plan and make adjustments if necessary. I am interested in what POND Boss Bob Lusk proposes to do with a pond in TX such as yours. Remember, I do my management mostly for small Ohio ponds less than 1 acre, so TX fishery experiences and opinions could be different.

Keep in mind that I think you should ideally renovate and start over to produce a high quality fishery which really is not your goal as I understand it.



Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/08/17 03:52 PM.

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This is a recent thread that also deals with rejuvenating an older existing fishery. B.Lusk provides some ideas. Read through the whole thread.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=463363&page=1

Another similar old pond restock thread
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=270344#Post270344

When you try to rejuvenate an existing fishery one has to keep in the fore-front the owner's goals which should be the basic guide to the methods used for management.

Your situation is not unique and numerous other members have asked for similar help as yourself. There should probably be a Topic dealing with this in the Forum's Common Pond Q&A Archives section. I will look into that. The main problem with that is locating the relevant older posts with takes a lot of time.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/08/17 04:42 PM.

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BC,

This is Todd Overton's reply to my email which basically echos what you were saying:

"Are you sure your existing sunfish are bluegill and not green sunfish? Have any pics of em?

If I were you, assuming your pond has naturally stocked sunfish (green sunfish most likely) and mud cats, then I would go ahead and stock your bluegill, redear sunfish, fathead minnows, largemouth bass, and hybrid stripers all at the same time. If you have existing green sunfish and mud cats, they are predators, and they may sabotage your plan to produce baitfish through spring/summer. In this case, its best to stock all at the same time, in balanced ratios, and supply some high protein fish food as a supplement to fill gaps in food availability.

If, on the other hand, your pond actually does have naturally stocked bluegill and not green sunfish, then yes you may already have 1000s of them and you might be ready to go ahead with predators and skip the bluegill..."

So, I plan to fish for both the sunfish and catfish the next few day to get a better idea of what I have. Then I will get back with you and Todd to see what I need to do going forward. I have invited a few friends and their kids over to get as many hooks in the water as possible. Then the kids will go home and some of us dads will do a little night fishing to see if we have any cats. Not a bad way to spend the next few days.


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Bill, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

But, let's see how his fishing/testing of current situation turns out.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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This is evidence that Overton is high quality. You received a very timely, same day, and good informative reply to your questions from the actual fish farm owner. Few fish farms are this prompt and attentive. You are a small volume customer, but they still treated you promptly and well.

The result of the fish sampling will help a lot to determine what plan or path to take. Overton also realizes two paths are possible based on fish content. I realize DD1 and PondBoss Lusk have lots of fish experience with south central US and TX ponds. They are welcome and should also provide their best advice for your problem. It will be interesting and educational to see if my proposed plan can work in an overcrowded sunfish pond in TX. I see no reason it won't work. This is interesting enough that I am almost willing and tempted to buy 1/2 of the 30 8"-10" stocker pellet trained bass at $5.00ea. In life you pay in time, sweat, effort, or money to learn. This will be a learning experience for all those interested.

As Overton mentioned the plan/path would be different if the existing fish were green sunfish as compared to bluegill. If all you have are GSF then yes you should be stocking some beneficial panfish such as BG &/or RES. I would not add FHM. YOU want bass to begin immediately eating small panfish. This spring's sunfish spawn will feed the 2017 bass spawn.

When did catfish, mudcats, or bullheads enter this picture / problem??? Only as T.Overtons guess?

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/09/17 09:05 AM.

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Bill, it is my observation that in Texas and other warm weather areas, bass spawn and over spawn. The forage base generally lasts a couple of years and then you have a really great big bluegill pond with starving bass.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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