Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
RiverDawg, dompeters, GDarby, SSJSayajin, Reed Johnson
18,052 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,243
Posts548,404
Members18,052
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 27,557
ewest 21,243
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 14,728
Who's Online Now
13 members (BeSaDo, cb100, canyoncreek, DaveS, Fishingadventure, Incept, Perch Pond, catscratch, Zep, highflyer, ZaneLabs, sirrobinhood, DoubleACRanch), 768 guests, and 161 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,075
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,075
Originally Posted By: ABC
Bill, do you intend for the largemouth to be the main sport fish?


ABC,

My pond is a little different in that I'm not targeting a "main sport fish." I'm going for diversity in both forage and sport fish. I've always enjoyed river fishing because you never know what you might catch. I'm trying to manage my pond with that same goal. I'm not looking to raise trophy anything, just good fishing. In 2016 we caught healthy PS, YP, BG, HBG, SMB, WE, CC and LMB from the pond. I have also learned that ONE key to achieving that diversity goal is managing the size and quantity of your apex predators. For example, my long term tentative plan is to try to keep the majority of the LMB population at 14 inches or smaller which is why I'm asking if 14 inch LMB have the mouthgap to control the adult White River Crays.

If you're interested, here's a link to my thread documenting my journey.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=411590#Post411590


[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,243
Likes: 196
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,243
Likes: 196
See this thread from the archives.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post206387

This is one small part.

Abstract.ŚWe attempted to control a population of papershell crayfish (Orconectes immunis) in an 11-hectare fish-rearing impoundment in Jackson County, Wisconsin, by using traps and by stocking largemouth bass (Micropterus salmoides). Crayfish were harvested with traps during the summer of 1985, and the pond was stocked with 386 largemouth bass (mean weight, 1.1 kg) in spring 1986. The pond was drained in the fall of 1985 and 1986, and crayfish burrow counts were made to estimate the population. In 1985, we trapped more than 18,000 crayfish, of which 72% were adult males. Trapping had minor effect on the young-of-the-year crayfish. In 1986, the crayfish population was reduced by 98%, predation by largemouth bass being the probable major cause of the reduction.

Cody Note: Keep in mind that in the above study only 14 LMB per acre were stocked. These few bass were very capable of significantldy reducing the high numbers of crayfish.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/03/17 07:24 PM.















Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 15
J
Offline
J
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 15
Quote:
(snip) I'm asking if 14 inch LMB have the mouthgap to control the adult White River Crays.


Yes.

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,243
Likes: 196
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,243
Likes: 196
YP will stunt if they get to far ahead of their predator.
















Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,075
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,075
Originally Posted By: ewest
YP will stunt if they get to far ahead of their predator.


Ewest,

This may be one of those "it depends" situations. The trend I'm seeing in my pond is with the SMB, WE, CC and LMB as predators, there are very few if any YP recruits. It currently looks like, if I want to continue to have YP in the pond for table fare, I will need to periodically ladder stock 7 to 9 inch fish.

Thanks for the links to crawfish threads. Interesting reading. A few links I really wanted to read went to expired web pages. So far, the only PBF info I've been able to find on White River Crays is the info Tracy posted with his experience. If I can get some at a reasonable price, I might give them a try and post back my experience in a year or three.

Last edited by Bill D.; 02/02/17 10:56 PM.

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,007
Likes: 160
Moderator
Offline
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,007
Likes: 160
Originally Posted By: TGW1
...When they attack a craw the fish will tear off the pinchers and or rip the tail off, lmb are aggressive and so are smb. Some of my lmb can and will eat the whole crawfish. They like eating crawfish, and so do I. smile


Tracy, I was reading an online article a few weeks ago, and one of the Strike King lures guys said that by far the best jig results were with plastic crayfish trailers that had no pinchers. He said they don't make them because nobody would buy them. I guess like most LMB lures, their lures are made to catch fisherman, not fish.


AL

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 56
T
Offline
T
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 56
To catch the fisherman is so true. I purchased my first Champion Bass boat in 1989. Duel console with a large casting deck. Under the casting deck were large storage areas, which I filled up with baits of all shapes and sizes. Today my 2001 champion has only a few baits because I learned that the way I fish is by using five different choice baits. Those baits have served me well. A jig with a smaller trailer works. Pork trailers in the winter and plastic the rest of the year.


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,007
Likes: 160
Moderator
Offline
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,007
Likes: 160
A hijack here, but Bass Cat is currently working on a hybrid boat that has a BC top cap, and a Champion hull. The Champion hull is generally recognized as the the best big water bass boat hull ever made. Pretty cool deal actually.

Back to crayfish now. I'll probably get mine in March.


AL

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 56
T
Offline
T
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 56
I love a Champion bass boat. I have ridden in most bass boats at one time of another. One can still buy a good condition champion bass boat if you look around. And Al, the Legend bass boat has the Champion hull or that is what I was told at the boat show. I did look at the hull and it looked to me to be a good copy. Champion was bought out by Ranger boats and I pass that factory when I head to White River Ark. I understood that Stratis (bought by Ranger) has a champion hull on one of their boats but only hearsay for me. Bass Cat, I have not heard. It would be a good hull. Champion hulls are like riding in a big old Cadillac. smile

Crawfish, I will add some more around Easter. Which is a good time for prices and size.

Last edited by TGW1; 02/03/17 08:08 AM.

Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,057
Likes: 6
D
Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,057
Likes: 6
I am waiting for the perch bomb to go off. We stocked emerald shiners, common shiners, crayfish, and fat head minnows one year before the perch. I have never been able to catch any perch minnows in our traps yet and its been four years. We stocked 400 in an acre 6-8" and had ribbons the first year.

We have added walleye now with the hopes to cut back on the breeder shiners. The thought is that the population of shiners is eating the young perch fry.

Last year we had recruitment with small non stocked perch being caught at a rate of 1-5. This spring we will see where we are at on the fifth year.

Cheers Don.


[Linked Image from corvettejunkie.com]
http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4


7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,728
Likes: 309
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,728
Likes: 309
BillD - IMO I would not stock white river crayfish until you have tried to use the northern crayfish aka virile or Orconectes virilis. Northern crayfish has an intermediate sized adult between the papershell and white river crayfishes. Putting in too large of a full sized crayfish such as the white river or red swamp could result in crayfish management problems since your larger bass will be 14"-15". I suggest you proceed cautiously and conservatively.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/03/17 07:32 PM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,075
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,075
Thanks for the input Bill. Sounds logical and I will pursue that option. Do you (or any other member smile ) know of a reliable source where I can buy Northern Crayfish? My concern with just trying to trap some from a local stream or lake is that I don't have the knowledge to do a positive ID.

Last edited by Bill D.; 02/03/17 08:20 PM. Reason: Clarification

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,728
Likes: 309
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,728
Likes: 309
Contact TJ. He was complaining the last two years about having too many Northern 'Virile' crayfish.


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,075
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,075
Thanks Bill,

I sent TJ a PM. I'm thinking 500 northern crays for brood stock. You know my little puddle. Does that sound like a reasonable number?


[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 56
T
Offline
T
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 56
Bill, 500 crawfish = how many per acre? I added small native craws for the past two years. The craws denuded (ate) about $1300 bucks worth of vegies. I know from your post you have added plants to the pond. Just thought I would throw that out there for thought. Maybe Tj's craws do not feed on the veggies. 500 craws sounds like a lot if the pond is an acre or so. I am no expert on craws, I would listen to Bill C for that info.


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,075
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,075
Thanks for the input Tracy! 500 would be about 1000/acre. I was going with this number as I was thinking there will initially be high predation until they get settled in.

My understanding is Northern Crayfish will definitely eat veggies and also burrow. I have an abundance of FA, which is one of the reasons I want to stock them but, there is no guarantee they would target that instead of my more desirable plants. Tilapia for FA control is not an option in Illinois. I'm not sure burrowing is a big problem for me as my pond is a water table pond and has no dam. Hopefully, Bill C. will chime in with additional thoughts.


[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 46
W
Offline
W
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 46

Last edited by wbuffetjr; 12/12/18 04:32 PM.

Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 168
Likes: 4
J
Offline
J
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 168
Likes: 4
I stocked right around 4,000 in my 3 1/2 ac pond and they are doing quite well for me. Im glad as I had a lot invested in them. I drove 11 hrs one way to get the paper shell species that Bill recommended. Next day shipping was absolutely out of this world on that many boxes of crayfish so I made the decision to make the trip up. I felt like the establishment of the crays was very important so I may have over done it on the stocking numbers since no predators were present when stocked. Id already went all out on 650 ton of rock and concrete for habitat so the long drive was the easy part of the equation. Now I walk the banks at night with a spot light and see cray fish every where and that is with SMB being present for two full seasons. Its nice to see the benefits of all the hard work and money invested!

Last edited by JamieE; 02/04/17 11:12 AM.
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,075
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,075
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Thanks Bill,

I sent TJ a PM. I'm thinking 500 northern crays for brood stock. You know my little puddle. Does that sound like a reasonable number?


I got a message back from TJ with some sage advice:

" I don't think you need the headache of the potential downside of the Northern's burrowing habit. I don't know how deep the burrows go, but I've got thousands of them."

Maybe I need to keep looking for a medium size non-burrowing species.

Last edited by Bill D.; 02/05/17 05:56 PM.

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,728
Likes: 309
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,728
Likes: 309
Adding 500 would be a good start to see if they can become established. 500 crays in your 0.5 ac is close to the density that Jamie Stocked (4000/3.5ac). White Rivers could get big enough that you & your roommate could eat some of them. If that thought interests you, then stock the White River crayfish.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/06/17 11:51 AM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
Yellow Perch Spawn 2023!!
by canyoncreek - 03/27/23 09:53 PM
Happy birthday Bob
by cb100 - 03/27/23 09:52 PM
Made a pond goal
by Sunil - 03/27/23 07:28 PM
Matala VS Air pro
by sirrobinhood - 03/27/23 07:25 PM
The 14 Year Tilapia Conundrum
by ewest - 03/27/23 05:22 PM
Looks like the otters cleaned me out
by DrLuke - 03/27/23 12:23 PM
Newly Stocked Pond with Major Failure
by jludwig - 03/27/23 11:59 AM
We've got it good!
by jludwig - 03/27/23 11:50 AM
Relative Weight Charts
by esshup - 03/27/23 11:36 AM
Restocking an old 8 acre pond.
by LeighAnn - 03/27/23 11:25 AM
What did you do at your pond today?
by esshup - 03/26/23 11:18 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Fish ID help
Fish ID help
by PDT333, February 24
Bass from my new to me lake part 2
Bass from my new to me lake part 2
by Lunkhead, February 9
Bass from my new to me lake
Bass from my new to me lake
by Lunkhead, February 5
Alligator Ice
Alligator Ice
by Theo Gallus, December 30
Union Valley
Union Valley
by TX Chris, December 19
Pond Renovation
Pond Renovation
by ArkieJig, December 15

´┐Ż 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5