Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,899
Posts557,051
Members18,451
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,407
ewest 21,474
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
6 members (catscratch, Brandon Larson, Layne, Dave Davidson1, Blestfarmpond, Angler8689), 638 guests, and 166 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Print Thread
#459981 12/04/16 07:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 1
S
scott69 Offline OP
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
S
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 1
i am sure this has been covered already, but do f1 bass have true f1 offspring? no chance they will throw a true northern or florida bass?


Scott Hanners
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Scott,

There is a good bit of info here on the forum on that topic. I believe I read there is potential for Outbreeding Depression with F1 bass, i.e. the offspring of the F1 x F1 can take on undesirable traits that are not exhibited by either original parent species or the F1. I would want an opinion on the ups and downs from someone like Ewest before I ever considered stocking F1s.

Just my 1 cent.

Bill

Last edited by Bill D.; 12/05/16 08:40 AM.

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 264
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 264
I don't think F1 exhibit outbreeding depression when stocked into the natural integrate zone .
















ewest #460047 12/06/16 09:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: ewest
I don't think F1 exhibit outbreeding depression when stocked into the natural integrate zone .


That's interesting. I thought outbreeding depression was purely a genetics issue. How does the geographic location of the pond keep it from occurring? Less need for adaptation as the F1s are in a "native" environment?


[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 1
S
scott69 Offline OP
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
S
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 1
in may my bass will have been in pond 2 years. i have at least 4 that are pellet trained. and i mean to the point they follow me around the pond while i ride the gator and toss pellets. it beats all i have ever seen. they can see the pellet coming through the air and head for it before it hits the water = seeing was believing! the ones that take pellets look completely different than the others. their colors are way more pronounced than the other bass, the white is whiter, and the black is blacker. also, of course, they are huge as compared to the others. the bass that don't take pellets look like the typical picture illustration of a lmb in an encyclopedia.

all 150 were stocked at the same time, will just eating pellets make them look that much different in less than 2 years? i have a feeder set for 4 times a day in the warm months, and i change it this time of the year depending on temps. i feed optimal and am 600. the lmb like both, but will chase you down for aquamax lmb pellet.

all of this rambling goes back to my question, how true are these f1's? do they all still have the characteristics of the largest northern and the most aggressive florida bass? are the fish suppliers still acting as scientist to create these better than normal fish annually or are they just counting on established fish to produce off spring to sell that should be like the original super f1's??


Scott Hanners
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 264
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 264
F-1s have been in use for many years. Not one study that I have read nor any report from the lakes has indicated an issue with outbreeding depression in their natural integrated zone. My 2 cents is that Fla and northerns are so close genetically (not like 2 distinct species such as BG and GSF)that they don't exhibit outbreeding depression. That does not mean that any isolated fish population without new genes will not show genetic problems over long time periods.That is a result of inbreeding.

Last edited by ewest; 02/05/17 04:03 PM.















Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 96
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker
Offline
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 96
F1 bass cannot have true F1 offspring. They can have F2 offspring or Fx (unknown) offspring. They cannot breed back to the genetics of the original parents, either. They can only provide the genetics they have, which is a mix of both parents.

Fish genetics is much more complicated than others, for several reasons. With deer, you have a known buck, known doe, one to three offspring...and they don't eat each other. You can provide the best habitat, great food, etc, and see the results in a couple of years.

With bass, a female may have 30,000 eggs, which might hatch, some might not. Then, of those which hatch, only a percentage has the right genetic mix of good growth, aggressive nature...whatever they need. If some percentage of those fish survive long enough, you can grow big fish. But, under water, it's a 'fish eat fish' world. We can't control survival rates or judge the fish as they grow so we can protect the best of the best youngsters before they get eaten. So, it becomes an environmental situation with luck.


-----------------------------------------------------------
As an add-on to Bob's analogy ponds are different. The buck that Bob talks about can walk 20 miles to get to a new home (herd)for genetic purposes and they often do. That is not possible in a pond. As manager you have to do the remix of genetics.

Last edited by ewest; 02/07/17 01:05 PM.

Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by Rainman - 03/28/24 02:53 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by Mark Dyer - 03/27/24 10:18 PM
Reducing fish biomass
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:17 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:05 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:02 PM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by Bill Cody - 03/27/24 10:18 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by esshup - 03/27/24 08:47 AM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by esshup - 03/26/24 10:00 PM
Freeze Danger? - Electric Diaphragm Pump
by esshup - 03/26/24 09:47 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5