Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,899
Posts557,080
Members18,451
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,414
ewest 21,474
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
14 members (jludwig, Donatello, catscratch, DrLuke, esshup, Requa, Shorthose, Blestfarmpond, JasonInOhio, H20fwler, Theo Gallus, Justin W, LeighAnn, Bob Lusk), 844 guests, and 210 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,793
Likes: 71
Zep Offline
Hall of Fame 2014
Offline
Hall of Fame 2014
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,793
Likes: 71
Originally Posted By: Bob Lusk
Stomach contents of bass studied in lakes with tilapia suggest larger bass don't necessarily feed on small tilapia.


I wonder why that is?


Fishing has never been about the fish....

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Zep
Originally Posted By: Bob Lusk
Stomach contents of bass studied in lakes with tilapia suggest larger bass don't necessarily feed on small tilapia.


I wonder why that is?


Maybe the pivotal word is "small" in the statement. I took that to mean big LMB prefer chasing "big" tilapia. I will be interested to see Bob's answer if he sees the post.


[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,793
Likes: 71
Zep Offline
Hall of Fame 2014
Offline
Hall of Fame 2014
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,793
Likes: 71
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Maybe the pivotal word is "small" in the statement. I took that to mean big LMB prefer chasing "big" tilapia. I will be interested to see Bob's answer if he sees the post.


Bill do larger bass not necessarily feed on small blue-gill either?

I am just wondering if there is something unique about larger bass eating small tilapia vs larger bass eating other small forage fish?





Fishing has never been about the fish....

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Zep
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Maybe the pivotal word is "small" in the statement. I took that to mean big LMB prefer chasing "big" tilapia. I will be interested to see Bob's answer if he sees the post.


Bill do larger bass not necessarily feed on small blue-gill either?

I am just wondering if there is something unique about small tilapia vs other small forage fish?


Dang Zep!

You know I seldom know what I'm talking about!

My 1 cent....LMB are opportunistic feeders but they are also "couch potatoes" and lazy. If they can catch a large meal (bigger Tilapia) and go back to just being lazy and watching "Where's Nemo" on their big screen TV, that is what they will prefer to do. If no big meals are available, then they will have to spend time and energy chasing a lot of little meals instead.

I don't want to assume this is what Bob meant by his statement though so let's wait and see if he responds.

Last edited by Bill D.; 01/26/17 08:02 AM.

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 163
F
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
F
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 163
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Hey Dan, how is Big Red?


Big Red is still going strong. That canoe is indestructible! Still gets used quite often...

Hope you're doing well. With the girls getting older, I have a little more time on my hands so I hope to be more active on the forum moving forward.


Carl Spackler: "This place got a pool?"
Ty Webb: "Pool and a pond. Pond would be good for you..."
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,346
Likes: 96
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker
Online Content
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,346
Likes: 96
Guys,
My experience shows small tilapia stay shallow, feeding on algae and being chased by small fish. In my opinion, small tilapia are eaten by small bass and larger sunfish. Because they add to the food chain, they add synergy to the system. I've proven in quite a few lakes that survival rates of young of the year bluegills going into winter is directly related to stocking tilapia during the prior spring. Each of those situations has way more 2-4" bluegills available, going into winter.


Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,793
Likes: 71
Zep Offline
Hall of Fame 2014
Offline
Hall of Fame 2014
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,793
Likes: 71
Thanks Bob....great info.


Fishing has never been about the fish....

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Bob Lusk
Guys,
My experience shows small tilapia stay shallow, feeding on algae and being chased by small fish. In my opinion, small tilapia are eaten by small bass are larger sunfish. Because they add to the food chain, they add synergy to the system. I've proven in quite a few lakes that survival rates of young of the year bluegills going into winter is directly related to stocking tilapia during the prior spring. Each of those situations has way more 2-4" bluegills available, going into winter.


Thanks for the info Bob,

One last question (maybe smile ) , in your experience, do you think the larger adult TP are a significant source of supplemental forage for the larger LMB during the summer?


[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 288
Moderator
Offline
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 288
Originally Posted By: Bob Lusk
...I've proven in quite a few lakes that survival rates of young of the year bluegills going into winter is directly related to stocking tilapia during the prior spring. Each of those situations has way more 2-4" bluegills available, going into winter.

That's exactly what happened here when I stocked heavier (heavier for me) numbers of larger spring tilapia over the last 2 years. My 2016 CNBG recruitment has easily surpassed any time in the recent past.

I do not stock TFS, so I have no experience as far as either, or, or both. But tilapia do seem to me to be a much better choice when dealing with marginal, or non-fertile water. So just as an observer, TFS seem to require a healthier pond, but tilapia help you get that healthier pond. Tilapia are very spiny, so if I was a LMB, I'd vote for TFS.


AL

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 57
T
Offline
T
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 57
Fishman Dan, My pond is about one third the size of yours and that might make it more manageable, but I can not say that for sure, it's just what I hear. So, for me and my present goal (goals change in life, just like yours changed). My plans at to keep couch potato bass, where they spend less energy to eat, making them fatter. So I want to fill every nitch in the pond with lmb forage. Lets look at my place. RES hang out in the deeper water or near bottom cover most of the time, and that's is their space. Larger lmb like that type of water, Sometimes. The CNBG hang out in the 5 to 1 foot water depths, mostly around cover. Lmb will move up to shallow water to feed, Sometimes. The TFS hang out in the open water and travel in schools and the midsized lmb(up to 5 lbs) will or might travel in packs and feed on the TFS, Sometimes. Tp will also travel in schools, like TFS and again lmb like that, Sometimes. None of this has been cheap, but it sure has been a learning experience that for the most part I have enjoyed the experience, frustrating and rewarding, Sometimes. I am not sure I will ever take the GShad route in the future, but I might, "It depends"


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
S
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
Originally Posted By: Bob Lusk
Guys,
My experience shows small tilapia stay shallow, feeding on algae and being chased by small fish. In my opinion, small tilapia are eaten by small bass are larger sunfish. Because they add to the food chain, they add synergy to the system. I've proven in quite a few lakes that survival rates of young of the year bluegills going into winter is directly related to stocking tilapia during the prior spring. Each of those situations has way more 2-4" bluegills available, going into winter.


Right here is why I cannot wrap my mind around the notion that tilapia are a good choice for a trophy BG pond.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 264
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 264
Big fish look for big meals . It's about energy use and consumption . Predator fish can tell just how big a meal they can handle and try to max input at the lowest energy output. Studies show that large LMB do not favor either small tilapia or TFS. It's not an efficient use of energy . If forced to chase them around the LMB is going to lose weight . Big LMB like small LMB , bigger BG and bigger tilapia along with other stuff .
















Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 288
Moderator
Offline
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 288
Tony, if you're talking about trophy BG as opposed to trophy LMB, here are my thoughts.

So you stock your BG, and you need to feed them correctly to maximize their growth. Bruce Condello told me that his best BG results were when he diversified their diet. So just for round numbers sake, let's say tilapia spawn once a month, and have 1,000 eggs per spawn. With our 8 month growing period, that's 8,000 eggs per female tilapia per season. A mating set of 4 males and 20 females could then potentially lay 160,000 eggs in a year. My experience here is that at the end of the growing season, there will be zero tilapia except for the original breeders. The BG gorge on the tilapia fry, and coupled with correct fish food, the growth rate is pretty impressive.

We've decided to breed our own CNBG this year in our 1/4 acre pond. We'll hand pick the CNBG based on size and physical traits from our big pond when caught, and breed those as our next generation of CNBG. After 2016, I'm very comfortable saying that a stocking mix of BG, FHM, and breeding sets of tilapia will really push BG growth. Add fish food to that, and the growth rate should really improve. I would think it's a healthier option for the BG as well.

I can't verify this, but I would think the presence of LMB might change the above scenario.

In a pond where LMB are the alpha predator, I think the BG thrive because the tilapia occupy the same pond space as BG, and they're more fusiform. Here at least, LMB always go for GSF and tilapia before BG.

No science here, just my personal observations.

Last edited by FireIsHot; 01/29/17 12:17 PM.

AL

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
S
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
Thanks Al. Do you see adequate control of FA with such low stocking numbers of Tilapia, along with the heavy predation of Tilapia fry by BG?

Maybe I'm confused by the dual claim of algae control, and forage for BG. I see how they will help with algae, when stocked in appropriate amounts, and I also understand how you are reaping growth benefits by providing forage for your BG. But how can it work both ways?

Small stocking number equates to adequate forage, but inadequate FA control, while heavy initial stocking controls FA but fosters increased recruitment, possibly leading to inadequate predation of yoy BG.....leading to diminished growth potential due to shortage of food for increasing BG population.

Could one compensate by increasing pellets? And if so, wouldn't the increase in feed, along with the growing biomass, contribute to additional FA growth?

Seems like a vicious cycle?


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 288
Moderator
Offline
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 288
Tony, it does seem that way doesn't it?

After 5-6 years of various tilapia stocking rates, I believe tilapia are a bullet, but in the correct stocking rates and sizes, they can become a magic bullet. Over those years I have altered the total pounds added based on my goals. Some years as low as 30# total, but in 2016 I added close to 400# total. That number is not one I'll sustain, but I needed them in volume last year. Plus, I raised the largest percentage of last year's tilapia, but that's a story for another thread.

As far as FA control, DD1 was working with an owner that had an incredible FA problem, and IIRC 60#-70#'s per acre didn't help. 20#-30# an acre seems to be best for me. That number takes pressure off my CNBG, and controls most of my algae as well. For all practical purposes, it's the tilapia base line for my big pond.

I'm about to wade in way above my pay scale, so read this part with a leery eye. Tilapia will do a number on FA, but it's primarily the yoy. In older ponds with an existing population of larger LMB, I think that stocking fewer but larger tilapia is a big help. The total poundage may be the same, but there are fewer but bigger fish. In that scenario, you're trying to help these fish survive predation by smaller LMB and give them the best chance of getting that first spawn done. Again, just from personal observation, but I think that first tilapia spawn is the most important spawn. These are the fish that will hopefully get to that larger 7-8" size, and really help the LMB. The original breeder tilapia will likely double that. Those original yearly stockers are the only dead tilapia I have ever seen at the onset of cold water.

I think you are correct about predation of yoy BG, but in my case, that inadequate predation by LMB is the exact thing I'm looking for. At this point, I'm trying to reestablish the smaller BG, and return BG to a self sustaining LMB forage option. A combination of events caused this problem, but tilapia have taken the pressure off these smaller BG, and the numbers swimming the banks last fall was incredible. Maybe the the trophy BG part just comes from increased numbers, so increased trophy potential. Or, do the increased numbers of larger BG do a number on the smaller yoy BG, and limit their numbers? I just don't know.

Not sure about the feeding part and the FA carousel, because I under feed my CNBG. I fed 1,500# of fish food last year, and although that sounds like a lot, I bet it's less than some feed with much smaller ponds. In my case, it works out to less than 3# a day for each of my feeders for the 9 months I feed in earnest. 6# a day for an 11 acre pond is pretty light. It may sound naive, but I don't want the effort-free food to alter the natural predatory nature of my BG in the event that I cut back feeding, or quit feeding all together.

Tony, I guess the bottom line is that everything's better here when tilapia are added to the mix. They eat algae, decline in cold water and get eaten before they become a biomass problem, take pressure off existing forage, and feed every fish in the pond that can fit them in their mouths. That's a magic bullet to me.

But, as with all things pond related, the trick is knowing your game fish, your existing forage, your water, your goals, etc. Tilapia certainly aren't a band-aide for all pond problems, but if you zero in on what advantages they do give, and that fits your particular pond scenario, they can definitely make things better.

I hope I answered some of your questions, but my answers where just what I've seen and experienced here. Others' perspectives are obviously different than mine, and I hope somebody chimes in if anything I've said is wrong.


AL

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,346
Likes: 96
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker
Online Content
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,346
Likes: 96
Actually, Sparkie, tilapia interrupt the vicious cycle. They consume algae, converting those nutrients into flesh, then consumed by other fish.
I've got one client in particular, who is way over the top when it comes to pushing his lake. I worry about water quality all the time, especially during the hottest months. This lake is collecting way too many nutrients. We monitor water chemistry bi-monthly, and nitrites continue to rise...until we add tilapia. We're trying to wrap our brains around that, too. Here's what I can tell you. In lakes where trophy bass are the primary goal, tilapia increase survival rates of young of the year bluegills. More bluegills feed more bass, escalating growth rates of remaining bluegills. Tilapia play a key role in both bass growth rates (and I'm about 80% convinced that tilapia aren't a primary diet source for bass, but by increasing survival rates of YOY bluegill, tilapia indirectly are responsible for significant food for bass) and bluegill growth rates (bluegill, as YOY survive, add to growth rates of bass, which helps support bigger numbers of big bass, which cull more bluegills of specific size classes). Here's a summary of my opinion about Tony's great question. Tilapia increase survival rates of YOY bluegills, which adds to the food chain of largemouth bass, which adds to growth rates of bass, which increases the sizes of bluegills that bass eat over fall and winter months, which increases overall sizes of surviving bluegills.
Sounds complicated...which it is. But, simply, more food in a different niche adds more food to predators, which increases average size, which increase mouth size, which increases prey size, in a perfect pond world...which doesn't happen.
So, forget about what I just wrote and do what works best for you.


Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
S
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
Ah, thanks Al and Bob! I hadn't considered the larger predator (LMB) foraging on larger prey (BG) angle.

But.. grin

That sounds great in the much strived for scenario of balance, with LMB as the apex predator. What about a scenario where LMB are the apex predator, but growth of the bass is not desired, such as the case where the goal is low density, trophy BG populations, controlled by a high ratio of stunted, or at least small LMB? In that situation, we sacrifice LMB growth in order to foster bigger BG... we don't want our bass growing any larger than say 12", so we have no need for the additional, larger forage that tilapia might present when they remove pressure from the BG?

Remove pressure from the bluegills....wasn't sure I could use those words together in a sentence, my fingers almost refused to type such a thing! laugh

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the patience shown to a hard-headed, stubborn, none-too-bright, please feature more BG articles for the mag, northern pondmeister.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: FireIsHot
.... but my answers where just what I've seen and experienced here. Others' perspectives are obviously different than mine, and I hope somebody chimes in if anything I've said is wrong.


Al,

IMO great post! I really appreciate when folks take the time to share their personal experiences. I don't see how anyone can say what you've personally seen happening in your individual pond is wrong. IMO the results achieved by introducing a new species to any BOW will vary and always comes down to, the goals trying to be achieved, the unique attributes of each BOW and the current inhabitants.

Just my 1 cent.....


Last edited by Bill D.; 01/29/17 08:42 PM.

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,346
Likes: 96
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker
Online Content
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,346
Likes: 96
Tony, one thing I've learned the hard way. We strive for balance. It can't happen. Well...maybe it will happen for a few minutes. Nature won't allow any type of sustainable balance. It's always a see-saw, up and down, ebb and flow. Balance is only some way-out-there theory. Great theory, by the way. Make my living with that theory. Toward your question, we gotta use bad bass...meaning they CAN'T grow. Use males...which is contrary to nature, but totally inbounds with growing huge bluegills without regard to bass growth.


Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
S
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
I hear you, Bob.

We use male LMB in the sacrificial role. They still grow larger than I would like, but it's the best we can come up with for now.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
S
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
For what it's worth, here's my take Bill.

By stocking male LMB, we control recruitment of the predator. I suppose one could stock single sex fish of another species, but while many will forage on small BG, none will match a LMB for control of BG recruitment.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Sorry Sparkie blush ,

I deleted my post as I decided I was going pretty far off subject and did not want to throw this thread off on an unrelated tangent. Maybe a good topic for a new thread sometime.

Last edited by Bill D.; 01/30/17 08:46 AM.

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,026
Likes: 274
D
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,026
Likes: 274
Most balancing theories go out the window when the fish get hook shy.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 57
T
Offline
T
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 57
Ok, I can see where Tp reduce nutrients through eating algae and turning excess nutrients in fish flesh, but what about reducing the nitrites? That has to be beneficial to pond owners that to grow larger lmb, (excess forage). How often do excess nitrites come into play in ponds? And will Tp actually improve the water? And at what numbers or lbs of Tp?


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 264
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 264
Many papers have noted that trying to keep a balanced fishery with BG and LMB (and others as well)is like trying to balance on the edge of a knife blade. Balance is an unnatural state as either overcrowded BG or LMB is the natural position that ponds are in.
















Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by Donatello - 03/28/24 11:35 AM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/28/24 11:01 AM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by esshup - 03/28/24 10:39 AM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by Theo Gallus - 03/28/24 10:27 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by Freg - 03/28/24 09:42 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by esshup - 03/28/24 08:36 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by Justin W - 03/28/24 08:19 AM
Reducing fish biomass
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:18 AM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Freeze Danger? - Electric Diaphragm Pump
by esshup - 03/26/24 09:47 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5