Howdy, all. Perry - from New Zealand - checking in.
After poring over more than few threads, I have the sinking feeling that my aspirations border on lunacy. My proposed pond area is modest, by USA standards. It'd be measured in square yards, rather than acres. My guess is about 40 x 20 yards, in an ovoid shape. Probably not going to be much more than 2 feet deep.
The water supply will be replenished constantly from the output of a biocycle aerobic/anaerobic waste-water treatment system. Essentially the supernatant from black and grey water from five households on the place.
However, the system does not work as it should, with more suspended solids in the supernatant than there should be. The good part about that is those fine, sus- pended solids do seem to act as a sealer, of sorts. There is no serious or nasty septic tank-like odour.
So, if I am lucky enough to get the project close to reality, the inflow will tend to facilitate sealing. The seems a fair presumption, based on leaving the output hose on the shingle, and watching the water spread further, over the months. Besides . . .
I plan to have a flowform on the island, to achieve aeration /good water quality. What's a flowform, did you say?
The real obstacle here is the 'soil' strata. Stony gravel with some silt overlay is how it's described. And I've dug enough post holes to be sure of that. As I see it, bringing in a high clay content soil and hand-plastering it is among my few (natural) options.
I also suspect that the bentonite clay in New Zealand is not of the same quality or make-up of what you folks have access to. Not even sure if New Zealand-purchased kitty litter would be better!
Among the DIY crowd, has anyone tried - say - mushing soaked old newspapers pulped together with bentonite? (A variation on the gley option?) Other variants? Yes, I did read of the alfalfa experiment!
I don't know the answer to your question but would be suspicious of any organic material like paper mixed with clay. It is my observation that only good clay seals and nothing else seems to work. And, certain clays don't work. However, you could try it by lining a bucket with holes with different mixes of it.
An Ohio company sells a product called Aquablok. I don't know what it is but they might be a good source of potential information.
PerryNZ welcome to pond boss, it's never lunacy to want a pond no matter how impossible it seems . With your proposed pond area of about 1/7 th of an acre have you looked into the possibility of using a liner.
I'm a little averse to the liner idea. I also wonder how much the island may complicate any sort of membrane? But if ends up being the only viable option, I may just have to change my mind.
Thanks for the warm words of welcome, too. time for me!
Perry, welcome to the forum. I also think that after it's all said and done, a liner will be the only option. I'm not saying the other options won't work, but I'm sure that the liner will work. I don't have any experience with liners, but I'm wondering if it could be put in place, then covered with substrate so you don't see the liner?
One big dilemma I see with a liner is the stony nature of the ground. I'd probably have to run a vibrating plate compactor over the bed area, to reduce the risk of punctures.
I have the flowform installer making a site visit, today. I'll quizz him about options, just in case his experience covers that sort of thing, too.
I spent a couple of hours on the digger, again, today, after the flowform installer had been. I shot some levels which showed that the right hand end needing raising a few inches, to get closer to level.
I reflected a bit more on liners and related matters. I seems a little ironic that this pond will have a steady influx of water, independent of the weather. Something a few pond owners on this site might envy. Which led to the question: how much?
What’s an average (statistical, mythical) figure for water use for - say - an adult? Shower, clothes washing, toilet, kitchen use, and so on? We stabbed a guess at 25-30 US gallons per day. How’s that sound? As there are six adults living on-site, that’s 150 -180 gallons per day, most every day, going into the pond.
Why is this a consideration? We were talking about leakage as it relates to liners. Add a little overspray from a sprinkler system and we have what some pond owners might wish for: the potential need to lose water, in a small, measured way. I.e. some leakage might be essential!
What that does is reduce the need for a super-duper seal in any liner. Plus the amount of fine suspended solids coming in, in the supernatant, may mean small leaks will self-seal. That leads me to a budget option thought. (Don’t cringe)
If I place fairly heavy black polythene over a plate compactor smoothed surface, water-proof tape it at the joins and then let the pond fill with rain and biocycle outflow, might I get away with that?
I don't think leakage would be a consideration if you used a liner, but I would check into evaporation rates for your area. Being on an island, surrounded by water, it might not be high, but then again, it might suprise you.
Mine is probably more. I time my wife's showers by the calendar, not the clock.
Very droll!
My wife says you have no business timing your wife's showers! Of course, she only says that because I don't have to time hers - we shower together. (To save water, you understand )
Of course the problem with the "per home" figure is not knowing the number of residents and whether or not it includes watering the lawns and garden.
For all that, having a continual input of 5-600 litres per day (130 - 160 US gallons approx) must help with both evaporation and leakage losses.
For some reason, that page wont finish loading. It tries, it starts, it just doesn't get finished.
I just tried it and it opened. Maybe connection speed? It says Australia is around 475 to 500 liters per day. That's per person per day. Data was from 2008 United Nations Development Program.
What we have in New Zealand, euphemistically referred to as broadband, is absolute crap, speed-wise, so that could indeed be implicated.
The Australian figures seem high, when I compare them to my guesstimate of local output. I suppose it might be said that the more the better, for my application?
I have the bridge piles and bearers in, but the decking will be a little later. A bridge over no water! Still, it did seem essential to get that in before laying out any planned liner.
Soon, the guy doing the pop-up irrigation scheme will be visiting to mark out the lines, so we can plant the specimen trees we have here. I've got the bridge in place - now I just need a water- filled pond to give it a reason for being.
The flowform installer is back from Europe, this week, so we'll see what might happen once he's again on-the-job. I have to say that dealing with the NZ flow form people is akin to pulling teeth.
Reminds me of the dance tutor's waltz line, only without the "quick-quick."
Perry if you just look at the first pond, it is about your pond size and has a liner. When he first installed the liner he punchered it but didn't know it until it leaked. He drained the pond and patched it, and it has held up for several years now. So a larger pond liner is doable.
Perry before you get a liner down get some old carpet and use for padding. Most of it will not break down and it last forever providing your liner protection from the rock and debris. I do not know bout there but here you can get it for free from carpet store dumpsters. Just check it for nails or staples. We usually put two layers down then put the liner on top and cover liner with felt pad, then place gravel on the pad.
Thanks for that tip - I'll keep it in mind. The pop-up irrigation guy's been here for a couple of days and has the job mostly finished. He does need to come back for the 'finishing touches,' as soon as it stops raining! What this progress means is that after I finish all the tidying up of the mess, the pond conundrum is next to be solved.
Trying to think a little outside the proverbial box, now. I was wondering if a powder might be applied to the shingle, then water sprayed gently on it. I was thinking of a mix of bentonite*, plus cement powder. Say, 4 or 5 to 1. Might that do an odd mix of penetrate the shingle a little, then set? I'm thinking of doing a test area, as, well, a test.
Anyone got any similar odd-ball ideas? Or comments on mine, of course.
The fall-back is a layer of carpet or under-felt, overlaid with 50 micron, black polythene film.
* The New Zealand stuff is not as good as the USA product.
The pond still remains empty, but I have not been idle. Far from it. Compare with the pic back in this post.
I can't see how/where to add a video clip to a post, so click here to see a short one like the pic above. Best viewed in a small tab/window, to reduce pixelation.
Howdy, all. Perry - from New Zealand - checking in.
After poring over more than few threads, I have the sinking feeling that my aspirations border on lunacy. My proposed pond area is modest, by USA standards. It'd be measured in square yards, rather than acres. My guess is about 40 x 20 yards, in an ovoid shape. Probably not going to be much more than 2 feet deep.
The water supply will be replenished constantly from the output of a biocycle aerobic/anaerobic waste-water treatment system. Essentially the supernatant from black and grey water from five households on the place.
However, the system does not work as it should, with more suspended solids in the supernatant than there should be. The good part about that is those fine, sus- pended solids do seem to act as a sealer, of sorts. There is no serious or nasty septic tank-like odour.
So, if I am lucky enough to get the project close to reality, the inflow will tend to facilitate sealing. The seems a fair presumption, based on leaving the output hose on the shingle, and watching the water spread further, over the months. Besides . . .
I plan to have a flowform on the island, to achieve aeration /good water quality. What's a flowform, did you say?
The real obstacle here is the 'soil' strata. Stony gravel with some silt overlay is how it's described. And I've dug enough post holes to be sure of that. As I see it, bringing in a high clay content soil and hand-plastering it is among my few (natural) options.
I also suspect that the bentonite clay in New Zealand is not of the same quality or make-up of what you folks have access to. Not even sure if New Zealand-purchased kitty litter would be better!
Among the DIY crowd, has anyone tried - say - mushing soaked old newspapers pulped together with bentonite? (A variation on the gley option?) Other variants? Yes, I did read of the alfalfa experiment!
Here's a pic of the stage I'm at, just now.
Hey, Perry. If water cleanup remains an issue, you might look into the floating islands made by floating island international. Really great at improving water quality, and I know they are active in NZ.
Some progress has been made, albeit pedestrian in the extreme.
I have some white polymer powder for pond sealing purposes. The tale of how I got that to New Zealand could be an entertaining side-story.
I'm paying a couple of European back-packers to screen the rocks and stones from the pond bed, leaving me with the fines to mix the polymer powder with.
They expect to be finished in a couple of days. It's not overly hard work, but tedious and tiring.
The 'base course' looks like this:
After I've spread the fines where the screening has been done, in preparation for adding and mixing the sealant, the view is like this.
When I'm past my present state of exhaustion, I might script some more details. For now, here's the result of around 9 tonnes of bentonite added, by wheel-barrow and manual labour.
The water is pouring in and the level is slowly rising. We are having hot, strong, dessicating winds, day and night, presently, so evaporation rates are high. That's borne out by the level drop in the swimming pool.
But it does look like - for me - it's Pond Mission Exhaustible, rather than impossible. So I'm happy with that. Nine years in the making! Phew!