Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
antscozz, Bowhunter2004, Thomas7, tynpond, hershl
18,550 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics41,034
Posts558,732
Members18,551
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,620
ewest 21,520
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,165
Who's Online Now
9 members (FishinRod, lafarmpondguy, esshup, highflyer, antscozz, ewest, Boondoggle, sroane, Theo Gallus), 819 guests, and 628 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Bill D. Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Two of the claims from the website for Sanco Crystal Blue Pond dye :

"Can help clear up muddy ponds"
"Helps settle out dissolved solids"

The MSDS provides they have 1% "surfactant" as an ingredient. Do other dye manufacturer's add a "surfactant?"

Last edited by Bill D.; 01/02/17 12:27 PM.

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,165
Likes: 495
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,165
Likes: 495
The surfactant helps keep the dissolved dye in suspension and not precipitating as long as the dye does not freeze. IMO the claims of - "Can help clear up muddy ponds"
"Helps settle out dissolved solids"
is guesswork and sales promotion and they have no real data nor proof to back up these claims.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/02/17 02:55 PM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 317
F
Offline
F
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 317
Off the topic but i think blue dye looks little horrifying. Kind of like there is some kind of chemical leakage to the pond from a nearby factory.

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 57
T
Offline
T
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 57
Thanks Bill Cody for your recommendations. That was the plan for this year to reduce the amount of fertilizer that was used the last two years. Another thing is this past year I built a sediment pond and have been raising fhm's in it. Feeding the minnows will cause a bloom and when it rains some of the sediment water moves to the big pond and I will see a bloom there. So this year I am not so sure I will fertilize but may let the sediment water along with feeding the big pond do my fertilizing. Or may add a reduced amount of fertilizer depending what is going on in March. I was wondering if I had numerous blooms this coming year, could it be controlled through dying the pond, reducing sunlight penetration. a light dye application over adding some alge controlling chemical. Not wanting to kill off a bloom but to control a bloom.


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 96
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 96
Concerning the surfactant and suspension, on the super concentrated quart stuff I found it good so shake the bottle violently before opening kept me from having to do so many rinses to get the sediment out of the bottom of the bottle.


John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 96
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 96
Originally Posted By: Fatih
Off the topic but i think blue dye looks little horrifying. Kind of like there is some kind of chemical leakage to the pond from a nearby factory.


Fatih, although I would put it in somewhat more charitable terms, my feeling also is that the turquoise color is more adapted to the Caribbeam setting and would not fit well with our midwest decor.

That is why I went with the much less popular black dye. It tends to give the pond more of a mirror look rather than black.


John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Bill D. Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: TGW1
.... I was wondering if I had numerous blooms this coming year, could it be controlled through dying the pond, reducing sunlight penetration. a light dye application over adding some alge controlling chemical. Not wanting to kill off a bloom but to control a bloom.


Bill C posted earlier...

Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Dye at less than label concentration (variations of light blue hue) does have a less effect on the plankton and plant community. It is similar to taking 1/2 or one aspirin instead of 2 aspirin.


FWIW IMO it would be more desirable to suppress/reduce a bloom before it starts instead of trying to reduce it wants it starts. I would think that would reduce the potential of a DO crash compared to if you "kill off" the bloom. If it was my pond(and it's not smile ), I would go with Bill C's "1/2 aspirin" approach from the beginning, before a bloom. Maybe reducing the depth of sunlight penetration to some degree would reduce/suppress the bloom in the deeper water and still allow some in the shallows??

Just my 1 cent....

If you think about, please post back with what you end up doing and how it turned out.


Last edited by Bill D.; 01/03/17 07:09 PM.

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 4
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Originally Posted By: TGW1
.... I was wondering if I had numerous blooms this coming year, could it be controlled through dying the pond, reducing sunlight penetration. a light dye application over adding some alge controlling chemical. Not wanting to kill off a bloom but to control a bloom.


Bill C posted earlier...

Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Dye at less than label concentration (variations of light blue hue) does have a less effect on the plankton and plant community. It is similar to taking 1/2 or one aspirin instead of 2 aspirin.


FWIW IMO it would be more desirable to suppress/reduce a bloom before it starts instead of trying to reduce it wants it starts. I would think that would reduce the potential of a DO crash compared to if you kill off the bloom. If it was my pond(and it's not smile ), I would go with Bill C's "1/2 aspirin" approach. Maybe reducing the depth of sunlight penetration to some degree would reduce/suppress the bloom in the deeper water and still allow some in the shallows??

If you think about, please post back with what you end up doing and how it turned out.



We did this half-measure treatment last year -- our first time using dye. It worked pretty well. We still had some FA but maybe 25% of what we had the previous year. Our place is old and hyper-eutrophic though.

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 317
F
Offline
F
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 317
snrub, it totally agree man. And i would also prefer black dye. It looks like a lake in a rain forest. Dyed by all the logs and dry leaves...

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,324
Likes: 306
Moderator
Online Content
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,324
Likes: 306
Originally Posted By: Fatih
Off the topic but i think blue dye looks little horrifying. Kind of like there is some kind of chemical leakage to the pond from a nearby factory.

Blue dye in ponds with high iron content turns them a nice green color. That's the scenario with my brood pond.

This month's BobLuskOutdoors Newsletter has a nice article about hatchery ponds, or sometimes called grow out or brood ponds. I personally think hatchery pond is a more descriptive name.

Since most hatchery ponds must be seined, weed control is important to say the least. I move water from my big pond to my hatchery pond, and weed movement is always an issue. Despite my best efforts, spotty coontail started showing up in the hatchery pond after water transfers. In 2016 I added Aquashade during water changes, and I had no coontail show up in that pond. We seined that same pond a total of 14 times in 2016, and no coontail was pulled up by the net either. I started adding Aquashade when the overnight water temp sustained at 50 degrees, and stopped early this last winter when the overnight water temp was below 50 degrees. This certainly isn't scientific data, but I do know I no longer had to use aquatic herbicides in that pond.

Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
...Dye can influence and reduce the amount of plankton in the water column due to effects noted above. This in itself will increase transparency. Fewer phyto and zooplankton particles is like less fog in the air...

I always place an upside down coffee cup in the water right before applying dye. I place it just deep enough to recognize the color, but not the cup itself. Within a week or two, the coffee cup becomes clearer. After thinking it was caused by some sort of light spectrum change due to the dye, Bill's comments on plankton now makes me certain that the loss of plankton is the most likely cause.

Because the particular pond I apply dye to is a hatchery pond, and is drained and treated with hydrated lime several times a year, long term water productivity is not an issue for me. Now, I'm more convinced though that I probably wouldn't add it to any of other my ponds. In those, I'll take the food chain, and fight the weeds.


AL

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 96
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 96
Great insight from real world experience Al. Thanks. Might help me out with what I am trying to do some day.


John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,165
Likes: 495
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,165
Likes: 495
FirelsHot do you have any idea how much dye was added to reduce the coontail in your hatchery pond? How blue dark is it? This darkness or dye concentration is a big variable from one user to the next. Brand of dye and it's concentration the bottle has a lot to do with how much is added. Keep in mind that some dyes will be more absorbed by the pond sediment, organic content and possibly some leaching. Some ponds stay dye stained longer than others. Why has always been a mystery to me.


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,324
Likes: 306
Moderator
Online Content
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,324
Likes: 306
Bill, I put out 20 oz per treatment, which is right at .5 ppm. That's the lowest recommended effective dose for Aquashade.

I apply the dye on the windward side of the pond, or by pouring it in during water additions, and let the hose discharge circulate the dye. The pond is dark blue when added, but changes to green within a few days. Again, I'm thinking it's the iron ore in the pond since the normal water color is a dark tea color.

This pond also has a large watershed which makes application longevity problematic. Several times a year, dye is added due to natural flushing of the pond. This year we're raising CNBG again, so little will need to be done with this pond water level wise. I'll try to get duration numbers this spring after all the rains are over.

EDIT BY ME: One more thing I would like to add is that previous attempts to control coontail didn't work when that coontail had grown to several inches below the surface. I'm not sure if it was the previous dyes I was using, or the coontail's ability to get unfiltered sunlight, but for whatever reason, dye didn't work. Dye doesn't bother my water primrose, so my assumption is it was the sunlight.

Last edited by FireIsHot; 01/04/17 12:44 PM. Reason: ADHD

AL

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
Originally Posted By: FireIsHot
EDIT BY ME: One more thing I would like to add is that previous attempts to control coontail didn't work when that coontail had grown to several inches below the surface. I'm not sure if it was the previous dyes I was using, or the coontail's ability to get unfiltered sunlight, but for whatever reason, dye didn't work. Dye doesn't bother my water primrose, so my assumption is it was the sunlight.
Your observation is a concept that bears repeating. Suitable lake-dyes will generally "work" only as a deterrent/preventative measure; meaning they should be applied long before a weed or algae problem becomes evident or established. Several feet of water-column depth are generally required for light-filtration to occur; with the relative depth being determined by the dye-dosage. If submerged plant-growth has already ascended to near the surface - or is on the surface (primrose) - it's unlikely that a dye-treatment at that point will offer any benefit unless the plant's biomass is significantly lowered to a greater depth by some other means (ie. mechanically or with a herbicide treatment).

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Bill D. Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Fatih
snrub, it totally agree man. And i would also prefer black dye. It looks like a lake in a rain forest. Dyed by all the logs and dry leaves...


+1 I want my pond to look natural for its setting. To me, ponds are supposed to be some shade of green or clear. Wish they made a pond dye in a "natural" green shade! smile

Cody Note. Clear water, such as the Caribbean, reflect the sky color, some shade of blue. I think this is what the dye companies try to copy.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/07/17 01:43 PM.

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 96
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 96
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
I've been trying to find an old thread(s) that discusses the pros and cons of pond dye without success. I did find one thread titled "Pros and cons of blue pond dye" but it never really addressed the question. Does anybody know of a link(s) that will help me get a better understanding of potential pond dye impacts (good and bad) on the pond ecosystem?


Bill nothing I did specifically answers your specific questions, but this is my experience with dye the first year I used it.

black pond dye experience

Edit; the link goes to page three but the application information actually is the last post on the previous page 2.

Last edited by snrub; 01/07/17 08:23 AM.

John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,165
Likes: 495
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,165
Likes: 495
Repeat question from 'black pond dye experience'. "Snrub - Good report. What brand of black dye do you use? Do you see black as having benefits compared to blue? My understanding is most black is made with blue, yellow, and red."


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 96
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 96
The first I got was called "Black DyeMond" as I recall but what was most used was from "Rain Biologics". You can do a Google search and find them I think.

I really have no experience with the blue other than both my wife and I did not care for the shade of water color we saw where it had been used. That was really the only reason the black was tried. It was the only other color found to be available.

Edit: rainbiologics.com

Black DyeMond is by Pond Logic

I saw no difference in the two other than price and fancy label.

Last edited by snrub; 01/08/17 03:54 PM.
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,428
Likes: 20
J
Offline
J
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,428
Likes: 20
snrub,
Do you think the black dye affects surface temperature much in heat of summer? Maybe no more than muddy water?

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 96
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 96
Good question, but I surely do not know the answer.

I'll answer your question with a question. Does it really change the total absorption of heat, or simply change the depth to where the heat (light) penetrates?

I gotta feeling we are splitting hairs, but an interesting thought at any rate.


John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,428
Likes: 20
J
Offline
J
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,428
Likes: 20
Muddy water affects the surface and extreme shallows temperature more on hot days, but not much impact, if any, on total absorption. I wonder if black dye would have much the same effect? I have experienced this myself from wading in very shallow water: On a hot summer day, shallow muddy water will be MUCH warmer than shallow clear water.

Edit: From my experience, the blue dye does reduce visibility (secchi depth). I have no experience with any other dye color.

Last edited by John F; 01/08/17 06:24 PM.
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Bill D. Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Does pond dye reduce the depth of penetration of all wavelengths of sunlight or just the wave lengths required for photosynthesis? Does dye reduce visibility (secchi disk results) by blocking light penetration or does it increase visibility by preventing blooms or "it depends?"

Last edited by Bill D.; 01/08/17 06:17 PM.

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,165
Likes: 495
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,165
Likes: 495
Color of the dye determines which wavelengths of light that are filtered or absorbed. Type of penetrating wavelengths will stimulate specific "types" of photosynthesis required by different species of algae. It is pretty complex due to all the different species of algae. They are definitely not all the same and usually some species are unique and capable of inhabiting all sorts of conditions on earth. There are algae that live in hot springs, snow banks of far northern areas and a form that lives as co-habitants as lichens on trees, even aerophylic algae.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/08/17 07:31 PM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Bill D. Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Can tannins in the water act as a pond dye to some extent?

The reason I ask is our pond came up 4 feet overnight and is at extreme full pool today. The sudden influx of water was caused by a combination of a large watershed with frozen ground, melting snow and an inch of rain. A portion of the unexpected runoff of water came thru some woods and our pond is now tea colored.

The fish don't seem to mind. I suspect that's because the pond PH is normally 8+ with alkalinity 300+. I doubt the PH dropped any significant amount with alkalinity so high to act as a buffer.

Last edited by Bill D.; 01/17/17 07:11 PM. Reason: After thought

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,165
Likes: 495
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,165
Likes: 495
Amount of light filtration reducing light wavelenghts for plant growth will depend on: 1. the darkness of the tannin, 2. the filtration ability of tannin to selectively filter wavelengths needed by plants mostly green plants. Some good homework may provide your answer. I have nothing for you. Please share your research.

I do know that when the addition of new tannin subsides the tannin will gradually and naturally be reduced.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/17/17 09:01 PM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Recent Posts
Mowing dam and pond edges
by lafarmpondguy - 05/27/24 02:14 PM
Dock Addition!
by esshup - 05/27/24 02:08 PM
Tilapia with Winterkill
by esshup - 05/27/24 02:04 PM
Dirt swells or artificial cover?
by ewest - 05/27/24 01:54 PM
Help,BG Dying, 1 a day
by ewest - 05/27/24 01:49 PM
Spillway Design Help - East Texas
by sroane - 05/27/24 01:25 PM
Spillway recovery from record rains
by sroane - 05/27/24 10:16 AM
Dock width suggestions
by Theo Gallus - 05/27/24 10:11 AM
My big bass are disappearing 1 acre pond
by Boondoggle - 05/27/24 10:07 AM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by bstone261 - 05/27/24 08:35 AM
curly leaf infestation
by esshup - 05/27/24 08:24 AM
recommendations for northern YP/SMB/BT pond
by esshup - 05/27/24 08:02 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5