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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470374 04/25/17 11:43 AM
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Setterguy, I can't imagine even with a sheepsfoot roller that you can compact clay and expect any kind of seal with that many rocks. There are more rocks than clay per area. I can see why you have a slow leak and why the soilfloc really can't help you much there. Too many places where rocks can move slightly and disturb the compaction and allow places for water to find its way down through the compaction zone.

Bobbss, I would go overboard on compaction or see if there is anyway to use the stickiest clay you can find, without rocks, even if you have to have it trucked in. or, plan now for an alternate source of water (well and large pump?) to help fill your pond. Perhaps you get more rain and won't have to worry as much.

Not wanting to be a spoilsport but that soil/rock mix looks to be a challenge.

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470375 04/25/17 11:54 AM
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That's by far, the worst area in the pond. It was supposed to be cut way down there, but they left it alone. It's also very close to the surface there. It was a scary layer, to say the least. They went over it with the sheeps foot, but as you say, I doubt it did much good.
Other areas had zero rock.
Also, I think soilfloc may have helped my leak, somewhat. I'm still losing about 1/4" a day. I think it was twice that before soilfloc, and I don't think I applied it thick enough.
Just an FYI..

"Not wanting to be a spoilsport but that soil/rock mix looks to be a challenge."
I see it a little differently..
More like this.. a one AC pond full of fish, that loses 1/4" a day, is a bit better than no pond at all...

Last edited by SetterGuy; 04/25/17 11:58 AM.

7 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (way too many), SMB, and HSB (didn’t make it. 0 seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) I think we have survivors!
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
SetterGuy #470376 04/25/17 12:04 PM
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Setter you are very correct, any pond is better than no pond. I was just thinking about how so many people come here to vent frustration AFTER the pond is done, and the original poster has a chance to take your experience and go to his pond builder and say upfront that he doesn't demand a perfectly sealed 'bathtub' but that if extra precautions are taken now, there will be less hard feelings later.

he can also budget the extra work, also budget for a backup plan to pump water into the pond should it leak more than he finds acceptable.

There are advantages to leaky ponds, despite 2-3 applications of soilfloc, I'm glad it still goes down slightly due to presumably leak and evaporation. If it didn't, every time we get a heavy rain event I would have no place to go with the water.. The way it is now our rain events come right about the time I'm thinking, maybe I should fire up the well smile


Last edited by canyoncreek; 04/25/17 12:05 PM.
Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470377 04/25/17 12:08 PM
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I can live with this. It's about as low as it's been. It may not be perfect, but I am glad I didn't give up when we found all the rock. I hope Bobbss doesn't give up with some negative vibes.. wink

Last edited by SetterGuy; 04/25/17 12:59 PM.

7 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (way too many), SMB, and HSB (didn’t make it. 0 seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) I think we have survivors!
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
SetterGuy #470379 04/25/17 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
Yep, forecast says 90-100% chance. Up to an inch. Starts in the morning. (St Louis area.) I'm thinking I'll get .1" up at our pond. Spread out over 12 hrs. At least you know you aren't in the driest county in the state. I've already got that locked in..
I had a lot of rock in my clay.

This pic is of some toads, but shows how much rock I've got.
[img:center][/img]

How do you do an attachment? I'd like to just link in an attachment instead of the pic. I know it slows down loading the page.
When you go to full reply screen,there is a link thing that says file manager,click on it and it will let you add a file.


Bob


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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470382 04/25/17 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bobbss
Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
Yep, forecast says 90-100% chance. Up to an inch. Starts in the morning. (St Louis area.) I'm thinking I'll get .1" up at our pond. Spread out over 12 hrs. At least you know you aren't in the driest county in the state. I've already got that locked in..
I had a lot of rock in my clay.


How do you do an attachment? I'd like to just link in an attachment instead of the pic. I know it slows down loading the page.
When you go to full reply screen,there is a link thing that says file manager,click on it and it will let you add a file.


Thanks, I'll give it a shot. Hope you don't find as much rock as was in my pic!

Last edited by SetterGuy; 04/25/17 01:22 PM.

7 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (way too many), SMB, and HSB (didn’t make it. 0 seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) I think we have survivors!
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470383 04/25/17 01:12 PM
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Thanks guys!I will do what I can to have a pond that won't leak.The bad thing about the budget is with my wife it won't matter if it's built next month or 2 years from now,she is only going to want me to spend so much,and I don't even know how much that is yet.lol!Sometimes you have to let her gripe and get over the sticker shock before she says ok.lol!Perfect Pond,Want One?You Bet I do!But I'll settle for an ok one.If it stays full enough that my fish don't die,I can live with it.SetterGuy,I'm sure that area looks rockier now than it did,I'm sure the dirt that was there washed away and exposed the rocks more.And I would love to have a pond that looks as good as yours!I made it clear that when we bought the land,that I would have a pond there if I had to dig it with a shovel.lol!


Bob


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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470386 04/25/17 01:20 PM
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I was lucky during the budget. One of my wife's friends was putting in a very nice pool. I kept saying my pond is less than 1/6 the cost of the pool, and it's a lot bigger! With fish! Ha
Hope your construction goes well. Good luck.
(I tried file manager, no go, all my iPhone pics are over 2MB). So, I'll hold off on filling up other threads with big picture files. wink


7 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (way too many), SMB, and HSB (didn’t make it. 0 seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) I think we have survivors!
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470390 04/25/17 01:36 PM
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I do have an old pond on the other side of the ridge in the same type of soil.It's a little under a 1/4 acre when full.It's not where I want one at,it is right on my property line with a private road (not mine)along side of it.It's in bad shape,it holds water but not that great.I haven't seen it drop more than 2' but it may not be over 4' deep when full.It has filled in pretty bad.There are so many trees on the dam,some are near 16" at the ground and some are dead.I'm not sure how much it leaks and how much the trees just suck out of it.I put a few fathead minnows in it and plan to bucket stock a few fish in it just for something to do and see if I can learn anything.I may try to clean it out later,after I get the new one built.


Bob


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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
SetterGuy #470392 04/25/17 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
I was lucky during the budget. One of my wife's friends was putting in a very nice pool. I kept saying my pond is less than 1/6 the cost of the pool, and it's a lot bigger! With fish! Ha
Hope your construction goes well. Good luck.
(I tried file manager, no go, all my iPhone pics are over 2MB). So, I'll hold off on filling up other threads with big picture files. wink
What I did was emailed them from my phone to myself,then down loaded them on my computer at home,then I right clicked on them and went to edit and resized them so I could up load them.I'm not a tech guy so there is probably an easier way.lol!


Bob


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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470464 04/26/17 02:57 PM
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Funny you mention pool costs! That is how I slipped our pond through the budget committee.

We went and priced out a simple above-ground swimming pool, not even that big, that was of reasonable depth (I forget the actual size). By itself, it was affordable. Then I had to figure in leveling an area for it, adding sand, and adding the state requirement of a deck to support a locking gate or removable stairs, a motion alarm, etc. Also chemicals, electrical hookup, electricity costs... my nanny state of NY made a simple pool cost almost 3X of the base price! Grand total, $11K.

We first received a pond quote for 1 acre pond at $10K, so we knocked it down to a 1/2 acre at $6K (which wound up being ~$9K when complete). It was still less money than a pool so I got the go-ahead! The selling point is it is usable all year round, where a pool is only good for 3-4 months around here. Ice-skate, fishing, etc.

Now we may have to add the cost of aeration and associated electricity to keep the floating gunk at bay for swimming. We will see how this summer pans out.

Don't skimp on the build of the pond. You will pay the additional cost now, or more later.

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
SetterGuy #470469 04/26/17 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
I was lucky during the budget. One of my wife's friends was putting in a very nice pool. I kept saying my pond is less than 1/6 the cost of the pool, and it's a lot bigger! With fish! Ha
Hope your construction goes well. Good luck.
(I tried file manager, no go, all my iPhone pics are over 2MB). So, I'll hold off on filling up other threads with big picture files. wink


The question is whether your wife prefers to swim in the pond or her friend's pool? LOL

Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470514 04/26/17 09:43 PM
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I know my wife isn't going to swim in the pond,she hardly swims in the pool we have now because the water is to cold,and it's heated.lol!


Bob


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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470518 04/27/17 04:20 AM
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My wife loves to sit back in a floating lounge chair. She hardly gets wet. Now she's seen me jump out of the water when the HBG bite me, and will probably never get out of the chair.
FYI, her buddy spent almost as much on their big in ground pool and landscaping project, as we did on the farm! I couldn't help but look good.


7 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (way too many), SMB, and HSB (didn’t make it. 0 seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) I think we have survivors!
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470615 04/27/17 09:25 PM
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We did get rained out again yesterday.They say they will try again next week.


Bob


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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470616 04/27/17 09:31 PM
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Here is a few soil pics.

Attached Files
soil1.png (1.82 MB, 593 downloads)
soil2.png (1.96 MB, 418 downloads)
soil3.png (1.93 MB, 475 downloads)
soil4.png (1.89 MB, 484 downloads)
soil5.png (1.96 MB, 621 downloads)

Bob


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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #470618 04/27/17 09:47 PM
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Here is a few more pics of the pond site.I still have lots of wood to cut and burn.

Attached Files
pond14.png (1.97 MB, 676 downloads)
pond15.png (1.66 MB, 520 downloads)
pond22.png (1.98 MB, 495 downloads)
pond24.png (1.82 MB, 646 downloads)
pond25.png (1.85 MB, 662 downloads)

Bob


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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #471561 05/09/17 10:20 PM
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They FINALLY made it out today and shot the grade so they can work up a price.Now I will have to see how long it takes them to give me a price.lol!Along with a few things they've said about always having to bring in clay,they was taking so long that I started talking to someone else last week that I know has built way more ponds.He wants me to give him $400.00 to come out and dig some test holes and take a look at things so he can give a price.Which my wife don't like.She want to get the NRCS office to do it,which they already they can't do to their truck being wrecked and no plans to fix it.lol!I would feel better about it if he had came out first and looked at thing and said everything else looked good but needed to dig test holes.Since my current people made it out today,I will at least hear them out.


Bob


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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #472984 05/30/17 10:31 PM
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Well still no price from my current people and the last time I talked to them they said they want to bring in 100% of the dirt they need and that it would probably be over $25,000.00 for just a 1/2 acre pond (I'm hoping for bigger).My wife finally gave up on the Mo.Con. and the NRCS so I called the other guy and he is going to try to come out Thursday and dig test holes.I would of never thought it would be this hard to find someone to build me a pond,let alone just to get a price.lol!
I haven't seen any sign of the FHM I put in the old pond so I picked up another 5 dozen today to put in.While I was floating them I was looking around and saw some 1/2"-3/4" fry swimming around.I thought it was pretty cool to have something spawn even if it is just FHM.I can't wait to get a real pond built.lol!


Bob


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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #472991 05/31/17 06:56 AM
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Bob, that's disappointing in the NRCS. My guy was very responsive has come out three times, at least. 25 is about what it cost me to get my pond built. I didn't get any dirt or clay hauled in though. (Maybe I should have.) I was 10k above budget anyway. Lots went wrong during the build, but some of that was due to my issues. I sure hope you find someone that's willing and able to get it done right for a fair price.
It's great to see stuff happening in a new pond. I took a million pictures of toad and frog eggs. Then asked and reasked here, what I was looking at.. Good luck, wish I knew a pond builder near you.


7 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (way too many), SMB, and HSB (didn’t make it. 0 seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) I think we have survivors!
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #473018 05/31/17 09:42 AM
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Thanks SetterGuy,the guy that I hope is going to make it out tomorrow is pretty good from what I hear.He built one for a member here on Pond Boss and 2 for a friend of mine's buddy.He claims that he has built 50 or more just in my county and works in others as well.He said their building a 35 acre lake in another county right now.I would like to think the person that hired them for that thought he knew what he is doing.lol!


Bob


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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #473271 06/02/17 10:30 PM
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The new guy came out yesterday and dug test holes.I have plenty of good clay.There is about 2' of top soil on top of it so it will take a little work to get to it.Besides the price,the only thing he said that I wasn't wild about was he didn't want to use his sheeps foot.He said the pond was going to be to narrow and steep for the sheeps foot to work good,and that the soil was good enough and enough rock in it that he could just toe it in.He also said that the sheeps foot doesn't work well with the rock.He said he would use it the best he could if I wanted but it would cost more money and that he thought it would be a waste of money.What do you guys think?


Bob


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Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #473274 06/03/17 03:56 AM
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One concern about pure clay is that it tends to crack during periods of little or no rain. However, this guy surely knows more about dam building in your area that I do.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #473278 06/03/17 06:01 AM
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I had them use the sheeps foot roller on my pond, and I had a lot of rock. My pond is pretty wide, it's almost square. The roller did have issues with the rock. Also, the guys that built my pond had built lots of them, and they all held water, and none used a roller. There's good clay around me, just not at my place.. Ha!
It does sound like he knows what he's doing. Glad you finally got someone out there that appears to know what he's doing.


7 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (way too many), SMB, and HSB (didn’t make it. 0 seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) I think we have survivors!
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Re: New Pond Construction In Jefferson Co, Mo.
Bobbss #473288 06/03/17 09:02 AM
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Personally in my situation, I just use a sheepsfoot on the core of the dam. But we have great clay.

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