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#457431 10/11/16 10:30 AM
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I completed construction of my 5 acre pond in SW Mississippi in September, 2014. Stocked with forage fish (TFS and FHM) 4000 CNBG and 100 RESF in November, 14, and 400 F-1's in June, 2015.

I started harvesting some bream in the spring of 2016 and to date we've kept about 280. Probably caught and released another 120 or so. I've caught many coppernose in the 18-19 oz range, so very happy about the growth rate of the CNBG.

So here's whats puzzling me.....of the ~400 or so bream we have caught, only 4 of them have been RESF. I'm not sure if they are still there, were ever stocked to the extent I paid for, have been decimated due to disease, flowed out spillway, etc. I've even targeted them, fishing deeper with earth worms but no luck.

Any input is greatly appreciated as always...

Thanks,
Ronnie

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The easy way to address this is to get a few adult RES and add them. If you caught a couple then some of the rest are probably there. A few extra adult RES will only help your pond.
















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Thanks ewest. A few....like maybe 10-20 or more like 80-100?

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100 fish in a 5 acre pond puts a lot of water area to try and catch one. Then also consider that both they and the CNBG have spawned but likely the CNBG have spawned multiple times compared to the RES with larger spawns. All of the sudden that original ratio of fish has just gotten to be a much larger ratio. Add in the fact that the RES are a little more persnickety on what they bite and it is no wonder you are having trouble catching them. They probably have to fight 25 CNBG off just to beat them to the hook.

I put 175 RES and 100 CNBG in a 1/10th acre sediment pond with no predators. I should have put 25 CNBG and they still would have outspawned the RES. I get RES fingerlings in my traps in about a 1 to 25 ratio.

I also have a 1/20th acre forage pond that I stocked only RES bercause I had a similar situation as you and did not stock as many RES as I wanted in my main pond. So have been raising fingerlings in this pond and moving them over to my main pond to increase the number of RES. I have RES reproduction in that pond but if there would have been BG instead of the RES I think I could have walked on the BG fingerlings they would be so thick. Not the RES. The pond does not seem to be overly crowded with them when I check with a cast net.

I would either do like ewest says and add some adults or do like I do and get you a small pond specifically to raise some in.

One thing about fishing in a RES only pond, they may still be hard to catch but at least you don't have to keep the BG off the hook for one to bite it.

Last edited by snrub; 10/11/16 07:35 PM.

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I see you have been on the forum for a while so have probably seen this link before, but in case you have not here is a "little bit" of information on RES.

RES info and links

Last edited by snrub; 10/11/16 07:42 PM.

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snrub (or Shorty), in your experience, do you feel RES would overpopulate a pond to the point of stunting growth with zero, or minimal predation? I guess I assumed they would, but just wanted your input. The reason I ask is that my .65 acre pond seems headed in that direction (or so I assumed) and I was starting to move some of the lower RW fish to my larger pond in hopes of avoiding such.


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I would try and get 30 adults with equal numbers of male and female.

There are no reported studies or data that I am aware of indicating that RES stunt or overpopulate.
















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Originally Posted By: ewest


There are no reported studies or data that I am aware of indicating that RES stunt or overpopulate.



Interesting ewest. Maybe Shorty, snrub and myself will find out for ourselves what minimal predated RES populations will do. (kinda wishing I hadn't stocked SMB at all now just so I'd have zero predation)


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Originally Posted By: NEDOC
Originally Posted By: ewest


There are no reported studies or data that I am aware of indicating that RES stunt or overpopulate.



Interesting ewest. Maybe Shorty, snrub and myself will find out for ourselves what minimal predated RES populations will do. (kinda wishing I hadn't stocked SMB at all now just so I'd have zero predation)


In my opinion stunting is possible with RES but there are few things that come to mind that would make it much less likely.

1. Relatively larger mouths let them prey on YOY at larger sizes than BG.

2. Mine seem to pull off a decent spawn with recruitment every other year instead of every year.

3. More likely to have winter mortality reducing numbers every year.



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I have the ability to quickly lower my water about 2.5', which is maybe 20-30% of my volume. I was thinking I may do this anyday now with the objective of pulling the YOY out of the shoreline vegetation and exposing them to predation. Thoughts from the Pond Boss RES aficionados?

I can replace the volume in just a week or so, so its not a big deal.


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playsomehonk,

I have the exact same problem. I can catch 3 or 4 inch RES but cant for the life of me catch any decent size ones... Every year I catch 3 inchers tho. So I got to have some bigger ones... I may do exactly as Eric says and add about 25 more to my pond as well. I think my GBH may have got a few during spawn also. Don't think they don't come around at night either cause they do. I have one on camera at 3:30 in the morning stalking my pond.... Easy pickens on fish when the fish are asleep.... ughhh

RC


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Dave Willis and I looked for info on RES stunting in both the literature and in discussions with a number of professors and pro fishery scientists. None were aware of it occurring , had never seen it and we found no written material indicating such. It is somewhat strange and the mechanism by which stunting is avoided is unknown. My guess is that RES stop or greatly limit reproduction when food is scarce. Other fish species are known to stop /limit reproduction under certain situations. LMB have been known do so if large amounts of sunfish are present. Other fish species will do so for various reasons. I do think RES can over eat their food base and get skinny and in poor condition. In that situation more food and/or less RES is the answer.
















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Eric, here are a couple of morts that I got off "ye ole fish truck" back in the spring of 2012. The top two are RES, to me they look somewhat stunted due to the large eyes.




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Originally Posted By: ewest
Dave Willis and I looked for info on RES stunting in both the literature and in discussions with a number of professors and pro fishery scientists. None were aware of it occurring , had never seen it and we found no written material indicating such. It is somewhat strange and the mechanism by which stunting is avoided is unknown. My guess is that RES stop or greatly limit reproduction when food is scarce. Other fish species are known to stop /limit reproduction under certain situations. LMB have been known do so if large amounts of sunfish are present. Other fish species will do so for various reasons. I do think RES can over eat their food base and get skinny and in poor condition. In that situation more food and/or less RES is the answer.


That's pretty fascinating info. Thanks ewest.


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Originally Posted By: NEDOC
snrub (or Shorty), in your experience, do you feel RES would overpopulate a pond to the point of stunting growth with zero, or minimal predation? I guess I assumed they would, but just wanted your input. The reason I ask is that my .65 acre pond seems headed in that direction (or so I assumed) and I was starting to move some of the lower RW fish to my larger pond in hopes of avoiding such.


Not enough experience here to have an opinion. All I am aware of is what ewest has posted in the past.


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Poor condition and stunting are not necessarily the same. I would not even hazard a guess on why "fish truck" fish look like they do. Over sized eyes can be a condition of poor nutrition especially with young fish (crowded into a hatchery pond with not enough food). Big eyes can also be an indication of stunting (overcrowding in a natural water body). This can happen when the food supply for a certain size class of young fish crashes and they don't get enough food. This can occur for example when cold weather kills off the plankton bloom at just the wrong time in spring after the fish hatch. Another example is when there is an event that substantially reduces the predators of young fish leaving to many for the existing food supply.

Last edited by ewest; 10/12/16 07:19 PM.















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I will keep an eye on the RES in my pond since I had a very large hatch in 2015, those fish are currently 3"+ and and competing with large numbers of GSH of similar size. Body condition seems to be OK. One interesting note is that I don't see very many snails but it is pretty easy to find snail eggs when I look for them. It has been an interesting year with very few newly hatched fry of anything observed around the pond, last year there were fry eveywhere all summer long.



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Originally Posted By: NEDOC
Originally Posted By: ewest


There are no reported studies or data that I am aware of indicating that RES stunt or overpopulate.



Interesting ewest. Maybe Shorty, snrub and myself will find out for ourselves what minimal predated RES populations will do. (kinda wishing I hadn't stocked SMB at all now just so I'd have zero predation)


To preserve my own sanity, I'll pretend I didn't just read this.


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What do the fish hatcheries feed RES?

Shorty,
I've noticed a few RES hanging around my shorelines during late summer every year. I assumed it was a second spawn but, after your comments, I wonder it they are looking for YOY BG in very shallow weeds???

Dan


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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Originally Posted By: NEDOC
Originally Posted By: ewest


There are no reported studies or data that I am aware of indicating that RES stunt or overpopulate.



Interesting ewest. Maybe Shorty, snrub and myself will find out for ourselves what minimal predated RES populations will do. (kinda wishing I hadn't stocked SMB at all now just so I'd have zero predation)


To preserve my own sanity, I'll pretend I didn't just read this.



Lol lol

Last edited by NEDOC; 10/13/16 09:06 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Shorty
Eric, here are a couple of morts that I got off "ye ole fish truck" back in the spring of 2012. The top two are RES, to me they look somewhat stunted due to the large eyes.



The 2 fish on the bottom look like they have a very high % of GSF genes in them..........


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Yes they do, they got culled.




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